B-Man Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: One has nothing to do with the other. I don't have any problem with the Confederate statues being taken down from public places, you, and 716 are assuming that. But the left taking down other statues and names DOES have something to do with that It is the, now demonstrable result of backing down to mob rule. Vote to take down a Rebel statue--------fine, but surely I don't need to post the many videos of leftist tearing down confederate statues with NO consequences. And what did that lead to ? tearing down Columbus, Washington, Christ, again many videos out there and again hardly any arrests. That is not "the left doing other annoying things?" as you so poorly characterized my takes. Actions have consequences Take down the Confederate states if that is what the majority of Americans want...............I will not split them into groups as done by most here. But be prepared, once unleashed, wokeism is hard to stop .........that much is being demonstrated in every town, big and small, across the country today. Thanks.
Tiberius Posted April 1, 2021 Author Posted April 1, 2021 2 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I also find the Big Boy statue offensive. Too bad. Big Boy wasn't a traitor that led an anti-democratic movement to destroy the United States. Lee, the traitor, did 25 minutes ago, B-Man said: But the Left won't stop there. As argued on page one of this thread and demonstrated time and time again over the past few years. What are you saying? That it is ok to move the traitor's statues, except that they stand in defense of something else? You are making excuses for murderous cops., Now pro-slavery traitors? So transparent you are. Such a loser you are 5 minutes ago, B-Man said: I don't have any problem with the Confederate statues being taken down from public places, you, and 716 are assuming that. But the left taking down other statues and names DOES have something to do with that It is the, now demonstrable result of backing down to mob rule. Vote to take down a Rebel statue--------fine, but surely I don't need to post the many videos of leftist tearing down confederate statues with NO consequences. And what did that lead to ? tearing down Columbus, Washington, Christ, again many videos out there and again hardly any arrests. T That's his name for democracy Yup.
billsfan89 Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, B-Man said: I don't have any problem with the Confederate statues being taken down from public places, you, and 716 are assuming that. But the left taking down other statues and names DOES have something to do with that It is the, now demonstrable result of backing down to mob rule. Vote to take down a Rebel statue--------fine, but surely I don't need to post the many videos of leftist tearing down confederate statues with NO consequences. And what did that lead to ? tearing down Columbus, Washington, Christ, again many videos out there and again hardly any arrests. That is not "the left doing other annoying things?" as you so poorly characterized my takes. Actions have consequences Take down the Confederate states if that is what the majority of Americans want...............I will not split them into groups as done by most here. But be prepared, once unleashed, wokeism is hard to stop .........that much is being demonstrated in every town, big and small, across the country today. Thanks. I just don't see the "hold the line" argument. If you take down Confederate statues because they are absolutely horrible (and you can preserve history without them) then how does that stop you from stopping them from taking down a Lincoln statue? They are two completely different things. Also it isn't like all this resistance to tearing down Confederate statues are stopping the "wokeists" from going after other landmarks so what success is "holding the line" even having?
B-Man Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 1 minute ago, billsfan89 said: I just don't see the "hold the line" argument. If you take down Confederate statues because they are absolutely horrible (and you can preserve history without them) then how does that stop you from stopping them from taking down a Lincoln statue? They are two completely different things. Also it isn't like all this resistance to tearing down Confederate statues are stopping the "wokeists" from going after other landmarks so what success is "holding the line" even having? I appreciate the response. But again I am rather mystified by your belief that we can just stop "them" from going after Lincoln or others. Have you not been paying attention over the past decade. Schools want to rename halls now because the students are offended that the people were slaveowners, even though that certainly wasn't why they were chosen. I really do not see how you can keep claiming that the movement to take down Confederate statues is different from the others..........It is not. Thanks. I cannot respond to Tiberius's post as it is (even more than usual) incoherent.
billsfan89 Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, B-Man said: I appreciate the response. But again I am rather mystified by your belief that we can just stop "them" from going after Lincoln or others. Have you not been paying attention over the past decade. Schools want to rename halls now because the students are offended that the people were slaveowners, even though that certainly wasn't why they were chosen. I really do not see how you can keep claiming that the movement to take down Confederate statues is different from the others..........It is not. Thanks. I cannot respond to Tiberius's post as it is (even more than usual) incoherent. Having Confederate statues up is the equivalent of Germany leaving up Statues of Nazi's and defending that in the name of if you let them take down the Nazi statues then they will just go after the Bismarck statues. It is a very foolish argument as each issue is isolated and mostly regional. Once again if you can't stop them anyway why not at least let them do the right thing in this instance? Just a question to you personally do you feel that the statues should be kept up? Edited April 1, 2021 by billsfan89
B-Man Posted April 1, 2021 Posted April 1, 2021 29 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Having Confederate statues up is the equivalent of Germany leaving up Statues of Nazi's and defending that in the name of if you let them take down the Nazi statues then they will just go after the Bismarck statues. It is a very foolish argument as each issue is isolated and mostly regional. Once again if you can't stop them anyway why not at least let them do the right thing in this instance? Just a question to you personally do you feel that the statues should be kept up? As I have stated previously in the thread, I never saw the point of having up Confederate statues in cities, I mean for God's sake, they were the losers. But certainly the ones that are there on old battlegrounds that honor the bravery of those Americans should stay up, but again I fear that they will not. My basic answer is that we should legally remove those statues that the majority of Citizens think should come down. (and surely you feel that the majority of Americans feel that way, right? Instead, over the past few years, the mob on the Left has made those decisions for us, you may disagree of course, but anyone following this issue closely would not. Thanks.
B-Man Posted May 17, 2021 Posted May 17, 2021 But lying for what you feel is the "greater good" is okay..........right? Over the past few years, a guy named Robert Lee has been claiming to be a descendant of Confederate General and alleged namesake Robert E. Lee and making the rounds calling for the removal of Confederate statues throughout the country. But according to the Washington Post’s fact-checker, this was all BS: Here he is a guest of Gov. Ralph Northam in VA: https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/05/17/washington-post-unleashes-a-correction-tsunami-after-debunking-claim-that-robert-lee-iv-is-related-to-the-confederate-general/
B-Man Posted May 25, 2021 Posted May 25, 2021 https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2021/05/25/a-compromise-on-stone-mountain-confederate-monument-n392446 A compromise on Stone Mountain Confederate monument Ever since the craze of trying to erase the nation’s history by tearing down monuments that some people find offensive got started, there have been repeated demands to “do something” about Stone Mountain Confederate monument in Georgia. Unlike some of the typical statues that cities erect that can be dragged down during a riot with some ropes and chains, however, this one isn’t so easy for protesters to tackle. For one thing, it’s gigantic. It takes up three acres of space and it’s literally carved into the side of a mountain, as the name suggests. It depicts Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson riding on horseback. To get rid of it would require a significant amount of dynamite and a skilled demolition crew. Also, it’s one of Georgia’s biggest and most frequently visited tourist destinations. In response to the calls for changes by BLM advocates and others, some alterations are indeed coming. But the mural is not going to be destroyed or changed. Instead, a new exhibit will be added to the park, seeking to tell the whole, complicated story of the region’s past, including the involvement of the Klu Klux Klan. Is this going to appease everyone? Obviously not, but at least they’re making an effort. {snip} As far as this new exhibit they’re planning goes, I don’t have any problem with it. The country’s history is complicated and people should have the opportunity to be educated about it, including both the good and the bad. Or, as the planning board put it, “the warts and all history of the Stone Mountain carving.” If the solution is to expand one of their parks and provide even more historical information, that’s a great approach. It’s certainly far better than allowing mobs to descend on public property and destroy existing displays. I have to wonder how much more rational this debate could have been if people could have negotiated to have other statues and monuments expanded with additional features to add historical context rather than just smashing them to pieces in the dead of night. There’s never been any point to these attacks from the beginning. No amount of destroyed statuary will erase the past and make it so the antebellum south never existed.
B-Man Posted May 31, 2021 Posted May 31, 2021 Federal Commission Wrongly Puts ‘Antietam’ On Confederate Names Chopping Block https://thefederalist.com/2021/05/31/federal-commission-wrongly-puts-antietam-on-confederate-names-chopping-block/
Tiberius Posted July 10, 2021 Author Posted July 10, 2021 Good bye Robert E Lee https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57788220 1 1
Irv Posted July 10, 2021 Posted July 10, 2021 What’s next? Jackhammer Washington off Mount Rushmore? What a bunch of wimps and crybabies. What a mess.
Tiberius Posted July 10, 2021 Author Posted July 10, 2021 29 minutes ago, Irv said: What’s next? Jackhammer Washington off Mount Rushmore? What a bunch of wimps and crybabies. What a mess. Oh, I was not aware that Washington led a slaveholders rebellion 1
Irv Posted July 10, 2021 Posted July 10, 2021 50 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Oh, I was not aware that Washington led a slaveholders rebellion What a mess.
B-Man Posted July 11, 2021 Posted July 11, 2021 The link is a terrific and timely essay. It is much too long for the likes of Gator and Billzy, but I would encourage you to read it. The Spring issue of the Claremont Review of Books went to press this past May. It remains relevant and timely in every respect I can think of. However, it is especially timely in this context. Looking back on the last year, I think, the CRB commissioned and published Christopher Caldwell’s review/essay “There goes Robert E. Lee.” Caldwell’s essay concludes: One of the great contemporary delusions is to assume that, when rioters tear down a statue of Thomas Jefferson or demand that an Abraham Lincoln school be renamed, they are demonstrating their historical ignorance, and have somehow “got the wrong guy.” Oh, no. They reject the idea that the Civil War was fought between a morally pure North and a morally irredeemable South. In this they have a point. The war was indeed fought between two sections that had each tolerated slavery to varying degrees, and finally faced an irreconcilable difference over whether any part of that institution could be tolerated. But there has been a shift in our understanding of what this means. Whereas earlier Americans understood slavery primarily as a problem of liberty, today’s Americans understand it primarily as a problem of race. It seemed for several generations that the end of slavery had removed the only obstacle to honoring both sides of the Civil War. But in the newest generation, the persistence of American racial prejudice can be a reason to honor neither. Although there may have been ambivalence about the war’s origins, there was none in its resolution. “In the course of three and a half years,” wrote the British military historian Spenser Wilkinson a century ago, “the resistance of the Confederacy was crushed, its cause lost, and every interest and principle that had been invoked in its behalf abandoned for ever.” Abandoned forever is right. Whether they were erected in that spirit or not, Confederate statues, road names, and ceremonies today betoken the settlement of the constitutional and moral question from which the Civil War arose—not the reopening of it. “Human nature will not change,” Lincoln said shortly after his re-election in 1864. “In any future great national trial, compared with the men of this, we shall have as weak and as strong, as silly and as wise, as bad and as good. Let us therefore study the incidents of this, as philosophy to learn wisdom from, and none of them as wrongs to avenge.” That is the spirit in which Americans have tended to remember, and should remember, Robert E. Lee, one of the bravest and most principled among them, even if his bravery is of the sort they cannot always match and his principles of the sort they cannot always honor. Caldwell’s long essay makes for a timely and educational weekend read. https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/there-goes-robert-e-lee/
B-Man Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) Page #1 of this thread back in 2015. "What do you mean it's only the beginning ? this is just about taking down Confederate statues, you're crazy" The city’s remaining contested statue was torn from its pedestal Saturday once Charlottesville’s City Council voted unanimously to take down the statue of Meriwether Lewis, William Clark, and Sacagawea. “The statue of Lewis, Clark and Sacagawea departed the intersection where it has stood since 1919 at around 2:45 p.m. aboard a flatbed truck,” the Daily Progress reported, adding the removal took approximately an hour and a half. https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/charlottesville-takes-down-lewis-clark-sacagawea-statue/article_f18a2412-e197-11eb-9125-af845766cd9e.html Edited July 12, 2021 by B-Man
sherpa Posted July 12, 2021 Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, B-Man said: Page #1 of this thread back in 2015. "What do you mean it's only the beginning ? this is just about taking down Confederate statues, you're crazy" The city’s remaining contested statue was torn from its pedestal Saturday once Charlottesville’s City Council voted unanimously to take down the statue of Meriwether Lewis, William Clark, and Sacagawea. “The statue of Lewis, Clark and Sacagawea departed the intersection where it has stood since 1919 at around 2:45 p.m. aboard a flatbed truck,” the Daily Progress reported, adding the removal took approximately an hour and a half. https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/charlottesville-takes-down-lewis-clark-sacagawea-statue/article_f18a2412-e197-11eb-9125-af845766cd9e.html This is the single most stupid thing I've seen the idiotic Charlottesville City Council do in the 22 years I've lived here. I drive by that thing nearly every day. The statue was a tribute to the Lewis and Clark Expedition, conceived and brought about by Thomas Jefferson, a local, and including William Clark, also a local. Sacagawea was depicted in a manner showing her doing her tracking thing. It was in no way "demeaning." An idiotic waste of money. 1
Tiberius Posted September 2, 2021 Author Posted September 2, 2021 Another victory against the Confederacy 🕺 Quote RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - The Supreme Court of Virginia ruled Thursday that the state can take down an enormous statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee that became a symbol of racial injustice as it towered over Monument Avenue in the state’s capital for more than a century. The high court’s ruling came in two lawsuits filed by residents who attempted to block removal of the 21-foot (6-meter) bronze equestrian sculpture, which shows Lee in military attire atop a 40-foot (12-meter) pedestal. https://www.wtvr.com/news/local-news/virginia-supreme-court-lee-monument-removal
B-Man Posted September 2, 2021 Posted September 2, 2021 Just ignore how this has led to removal of statues of Jefferson, Washington, Columbus and others. Victory !
Tiberius Posted September 2, 2021 Author Posted September 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, B-Man said: Just ignore how this has led to removal of statues of Jefferson, Washington, Columbus and others. Victory ! I see Washington right on our Money, Jefferson, too. But good to see you accept the need to move slave holder Lee, traitor
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