New Orleans To Remove Excremental Rebel Monuments

[TakeYouToTasker]

Like anyone, he had some good in him. But on the issue of slavery, he was with the slavers.

 

On the issue of slavery, almost all of history was with the slavers. Every nation, every race, every religion.

 

Again, what you're engaging in is dangerous.

[boyst]

We don't live in a country where unanimity decides. These statues are number 8 million on a list of concerns.

when history draws attention to Obama for drone attacks as being immoral because they were done so by robots will we rip down cranes? When vagina hats begin to be found vulgar will we suddenly rip apart georgia O'Keefe?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

We don't live in a country where unanimity decides. These statues are number 8 million on a list of concerns.

 

To rational people perhaps. But there are millions of irrational people in this country.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Well said. I feel the same way about this. You could make very good arguments on either side.

I'm on the side that says being offended by history is stupid, and giving ground to those who wish to sanitize it while labeling those who disagree Nazis is even more stupid.

 

These are the same !@#$s who want to undo the entire Enlightenment because minorities weren't represented in it's philosophers, and believe anything Euro-centric to be evil.

 

These are dangerous zealots espousing a dangerous philosophy, and they shouldn't be appeased.

[/dev/null]

They won the war. If my dead grandpa and his bros want to piss on nazi statues I could give a crap. Or my Irish ancestors who fought the confederacy. Winners write the history booksSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you're cool with tearing down statues of Geronimo, Crazy Horse, and Sitting Bull and p*sing on them too? Cuz you know, history is written by the winners. Amirite?

[DC Tom]

That story is more complicated than a sentence and doesn't capture Lee's views, nor what he permitted and encouraged in the Civil War. Let's not get crazy and try to paint Lee as a closet abolitionist. He killed Americans to keep the right to slavery. He used slave labor on his family plantation. He encouraged northern raids to secure slaves for the South.

 

That is ridiculously inaccurate that illustrates how utterly !@#$ed up the historiography of that period is: Lee was against slavery, but against abolition, because he believed that abolition was unfair to the freed slaves, leaving them on their own with no literacy and no skills, and believed slavery as an institution should be unwound less precipitously than the abolitionists wanted. He also didn't fight to maintain slavery; he expressly fought out of loyalty to the state of Virginia, which expressly seceded not over slavery but over abuse of power by the federal government. He did not "use slave labor on his family plantation," he was the executor of his father-in-law's will concerning his plantation and acted in accordance with the letter of the will, ensuring the slaves were freed within five years (including the ones sold off the plantation.)

 

Which I point out not to make the man to be a hero, but to illustrate that **** isn't actually as simple as we'd like it to be. Lee, like most of the country, existed in the wide gray area of belief between South Carolina slavers and New England abolitionists, and it's a mistake to make ignorant black-and-white statements about the man based on ignorant 2020 agitation and ranconteuring.

[Doc Brown]

Trump makes a great point about the slippery slope we're under with tearing down statues of historical figures because some of us our offended and the media freaks.

 

"George Washington was a slave owner... Are we going to take down statues of George Washington. How about Thomas Jefferson?"

[Benjamin Franklin]

Trump makes a great point about the slippery slope we're under with tearing down statues of historical figures because some of us our offended and the media freaks.

 

"George Washington was a slave owner... Are we going to take down statues of George Washington. How about Thomas Jefferson?"

That line is always moving through history. It's not a great point.

 

Jefferson was viewed as a pristine founding father until 30 ish years ago. Now we look at him as a guy who raped his slave and kept his son a slave even after he died. Maybe in 100 years, people will lionize him again. Perspective changes. Tributes in the form of statues will be built, torn down, replaced...that's a natural march of time.

 

That is ridiculously inaccurate that illustrates how utterly !@#$ed up the historiography of that period is:.

Nothing I said was incorrect. But of course there is more to the story. My point was the counterpoint the post I responded to: Let's not hold Lee up as some bastion of anti-slavery virtue. Edited August 15, 2017 by Benjamin Franklin

[Tiberius]

That is ridiculously inaccurate that illustrates how utterly !@#$ed up the historiography of that period is: Lee was against slavery, but against abolition, because he believed that abolition was unfair to the freed slaves, leaving them on their own with no literacy and no skills, and believed slavery as an institution should be unwound less precipitously than the abolitionists wanted. He also didn't fight to maintain slavery; he expressly fought out of loyalty to the state of Virginia, which expressly seceded not over slavery but over abuse of power by the federal government. He did not "use slave labor on his family plantation," he was the executor of his father-in-law's will concerning his plantation and acted in accordance with the letter of the will, ensuring the slaves were freed within five years (including the ones sold off the plantation.)

 

Which I point out not to make the man to be a hero, but to illustrate that **** isn't actually as simple as we'd like it to be. Lee, like most of the country, existed in the wide gray area of belief between South Carolina slavers and New England abolitionists, and it's a mistake to make ignorant black-and-white statements about the man based on ignorant 2020 agitation and ranconteuring.

 

Wow

Emancipation was unfair to the slaves! Wow

[DC Tom]

That line is always moving through history. It's not a great point.

 

Jefferson was viewed as a pristine founding father until 30 ish years ago. Now we look at him as a guy who raped his slave and kept his son a slave even after he died. Maybe in 100 years, people will lionize him again. Perspective changes. Tributes in the form of statues will be built, torn down, replaced...that's a natural march of time.

Nothing I said was incorrect. But of course there is more to the story. My point was the counterpoint the post I responded to: Let's not hold Lee up as some bastion of anti-slavery virtue.

Everything you said was incorrect.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Everything you said was incorrect.

So he didn't rape Hemings and keep the children of those rapes in slavery? Please, do tell.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Benjamin Franklin

[Tiberius]

Good! This "Justice" made the most immoral and unjust ruling in the courts history

 

 

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan ordered on Tuesday that the statue of former Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B. Taney be removed from the grounds of the State House in Annapolis. While we cannot hide from our historynor should wethe time has come to make clear the difference between properly acknowledging our past and glorifying the darkest chapters of our history, the Republican governor said in a statement. The declaration comes after deadly violence at a white-supremacist rally in Charlottesville. Just two years ago, Hogan was opposed to removing Confederate monuments, saying it amounted to political correctness run amok. Taney wrote the majority opinion in the Dred Scott v. Sandford case, which ruled that African-Americans could not be U.S. citizens.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/maryland-gop-gov-larry-hogan-remove-confederate-era-statue-from-state-house

 

 

I'm sure D.C. Tom will come along and say it was for blacks own good

[Deranged Rhino]

 

No, they don't. They reflexively reject the idea based on the reinterpretation of history through modern social mores that didn't exist at the time those men lived.

 

There's no "question" about it...there's not even any discussion, as several in this thread alone have demonstrated. These people have a Taliban-like dedication to destroying anything they don't agree with.

 

 

 

I don't even care a little about the Lee statue for what it's worth.

 

A statue is a tribute. Lee was not merely a slave owner--he was a leader [ed] of the Confederacy--surely you can appreciate that many people would find him unworthy of a statue.

 

Everyone is complicated. Some people deserve to be celebrated. Others don't. The ones who don't get their statues taken down. You can still read any one of a billion books about Lee.

 

Well, until they burn the books about Lee. Because that's the next step and the overall point you're missing.

 

 

 

That is ridiculously inaccurate that illustrates how utterly !@#$ed up the historiography of that period is: Lee was against slavery, but against abolition, because he believed that abolition was unfair to the freed slaves, leaving them on their own with no literacy and no skills, and believed slavery as an institution should be unwound less precipitously than the abolitionists wanted. He also didn't fight to maintain slavery; he expressly fought out of loyalty to the state of Virginia, which expressly seceded not over slavery but over abuse of power by the federal government. He did not "use slave labor on his family plantation," he was the executor of his father-in-law's will concerning his plantation and acted in accordance with the letter of the will, ensuring the slaves were freed within five years (including the ones sold off the plantation.)

 

Which I point out not to make the man to be a hero, but to illustrate that **** isn't actually as simple as we'd like it to be. Lee, like most of the country, existed in the wide gray area of belief between South Carolina slavers and New England abolitionists, and it's a mistake to make ignorant black-and-white statements about the man based on ignorant 2020 agitation and ranconteuring.

 

Thank you.

[bilzfancy]

They just arrested the fat slob who climb the ladder and put the rope around the statue in Raleigh that was pulled down, freaking awesome

[grinreaper]

http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2017/08/15/fomenting-chaos-durham-nc-radicals-destroy-confederate-monument-shouldnt-ok/

 

I’m going to wade into something here that may be inflammatory (as if that’s ever stopped me).

 

To begin with, the alt-reich right and the white nationalists that fall into that category have no place in our nation. Americans fought and died to keep America free from the ideology you’re trying to take mainstream in this nation. What went on in Charlottesville was atrocious and wrong.

 

If you’re throwing Nazi salutes on American soil, you are not an American, and just as some lawmakers have proposed revoking the citizenship of those who venture out to join ISIS, let’s go ahead and apply that to those promoting the tenets of the Hitler regime in our nation, as well.

 

And speaking of ISIS, part of the horror that is the Islamic State modus operandi has been to destroy historic sites and monuments in areas they invade. Throughout Iraq and Syria, ISIS has done to priceless monuments of heritage what the ravages of time could not do.

 

With that in mind, how are people who destroy monuments on American soil very different than ISIS?

 

OOPS.

 

I went there.

[DC Tom]

So he didn't rape Hemings and keep the children of those rapes in slavery? Please, do tell.

 

Uh...no.

[DC Tom]

Wow

Emancipation was unfair to the slaves! Wow

 

THIS is the perfect illustration of what I was talking about. I said "Lee believed abolition was unfair to the freed slaves." He actually believed in emancipation of slaves, but in a more measured process than abolition, that allowed a skilled and literate ex-slave population to be engaged in the American socio-economic system.

 

But our modern-day retards - of which there are far too many, and gatorman is only but a single shining example, are so thoroughly !@#$ing ignorant of history that they can't help but think the entire nation was divided precisely and uniformly at the Mason-Dixon line between South Carolina plantation owners and Boston intellectuals and so thoroughly incapable of recognizing the broad set of views and purposes that people held, to the point where they don't even know the difference between "abolition" and "emancipation."

[Benjamin Franklin]

 

Uh...no.

 

He raped Hemings to the tune of 6ish children, who he kept as slaves. Even after he died, he kept Hemings a slave.

 

You are an unmitigated bloviating ass. Good luck as hero to the stupid.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Benjamin Franklin

[Tiberius]

THIS is the perfect illustration of what I was talking about. I said "Lee believed abolition was unfair to the freed slaves." He actually believed in emancipation of slaves, but in a more measured process than abolition, that allowed a skilled and literate ex-slave population to be engaged in the American socio-economic system.

 

But our modern-day retards - of which there are far too many, and gatorman is only but a single shining example, are so thoroughly !@#$ing ignorant of history that they can't help but think the entire nation was divided precisely and uniformly at the Mason-Dixon line between South Carolina plantation owners and Boston intellectuals and so thoroughly incapable of recognizing the broad set of views and purposes that people held, to the point where they don't even know the difference between "abolition" and "emancipation."

 

It does not matter how many insults you have to buttress your twisted, factually wrong and deplorable arguments with, they are still crap.

 

Your lies about his views on slavery are bad enough. But the fact that Americans would not want to celebrate a traitor with a statue just escapes you.

[DC Tom]

 

He raped Hemings to the tune of 6ish children, who he kept as slaves. Even after he died, he kept Hemings a slave.

 

You are an unmitigated bloviating ass. Good luck as hero to the stupid.

 

You're confusing Lee with Jefferson, dumbass.