dave mcbride Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Watkins is fast becoming a 9 route specific WR like Lee Evans was. For Watkins to get the plaudits OBJ does, he needs to be making catches over the middle and getting yards after the catch. Still, I'm not sure he's got the QB who'll be able to do that, which makes me wonder what SW becomes when defenses realize TT's limitations. He's actually been targeted a lot on shorter sideline routes the last few games. And he's made some great catches. I think the Evans comparison is WAY off base. Evans was not good on sideline outs or going over the middle. Sammy has had I think three nice over-the-middle catches called back this season because of penalties. Plus the QB, who I like, seems allergic to throwing it over the middle (although he is getting better at it). As for the Beckham comparison, I think they're about equal. Outside observers I know (i.e., not jaded Bills fans) see a complete stud who can do it all but isn't thrown to enough. His short range explosiveness and foot movement are simply phenomenal -- as good as anyone in the league. Incidentally, he should have had a second TD against Philly because he was wide open on that deep middle play. The ball was overthrown. Edited December 15, 2015 by dave mcbride
NOVABillsFan Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Lee Evans? this guy? http://www.nfl.com/player/leeevans/2506097/profile Right now the only thing Evans is doing better than Sammy is dropping balls and picking up penalties.
BillsVet Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 He's actually been targeted a lot on shorter sideline routes the last few games. And he's made some great catches. I think the Evans comparison is WAY off base. Evans was not good on sideline outs or going over the middle. Sammy has had I think three nice over-the-middle catches called back this season because of penalties. Plus the QB, who I like, seems allergic to throwing it over the middle (although he is getting better at it). They're using Watkins in a way similar to how Evans was used. I recognize they're two different types of receivers, but what good is it to use Watkins on sideline throws so much? The passing game is predictable and defenses know it. If Taylor can't get Watkins or others the ball over the middle, then the offense struggles. Case in point was KC's stopping Sammy in the second half 2 weeks ago. Or, after the TD catch this past week, Sammy being held to 4 catches and 44 yards.
dave mcbride Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 They're using Watkins in a way similar to how Evans was used. I recognize they're two different types of receivers, but what good is it to use Watkins on sideline throws so much? The passing game is predictable and defenses know it. If Taylor can't get Watkins or others the ball over the middle, then the offense struggles. Case in point was KC's stopping Sammy in the second half 2 weeks ago. Or, after the TD catch this past week, Sammy being held to 4 catches and 44 yards. As I say above, he was wide open for another 50 yard TD, but the ball was overthrown. If he catches that, then it's 6 for 130 and TDs--basically another stellar statistical performance.
Manther Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 ODB 142 Targets Catch % - 60% of targets Yards per Target - 9.29 Touchdown % - 8.45 % of targets Sammy 64 Targets Catch % - 61% of targets Yards per Target - 11.19 Touchdown % - 11% of targets The Giants design ways to get Beckham open, move him all over the formation and feed him with targets. Sammy largely lines up in the same spots and runs the same few routes. ODB has made some highlight catches, but he's also missed some easy ones he's tried to turn into highlights. Sammy's move on Revis to clinch the Jets game was a thing of beauty, but that's not leading sportscenter. You can argue Sammy's production may diminish with more targets, but looking at how each team uses each guy and the end result of their targets, it's conjecture to say ODB is clearly a better player than Sammy. Good postWatkins isn't even better than Evans.No true
YoloinOhio Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Janet Evans? Underrated Olympian IMO. Totally agree, Sammy can't compete in the backstroke.
FireChan Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Good post No true How is Watkins better than Evans?
mannc Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 How is Watkins better than Evans? Maybe he means Lee Evans.
BillsVet Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Janet Evans? Underrated Olympian IMO. Totally agree, Sammy can't compete in the backstroke. I meant Darrell, he of the 40 home run season in 1987 with the Detroit Tigers.
Freddie's Dead Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I was really hoping the Bills moved up for Mack, but then they announced Sammy. I don't think there's any question that if Sammy was on the Giants, he'd equal or surpass OBJ. But boy would I love to see Mack in a Bills jersey.
mannc Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I don't think there's any question that if Sammy was on the Giants, he'd equal or surpass OBJ. Wow, talk about unsupported speculation. Only on TSW . . .
thebandit27 Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 ODB 142 Targets Catch % - 60% of targets Yards per Target - 9.29 Touchdown % - 8.45 % of targets Sammy 64 Targets Catch % - 61% of targets Yards per Target - 11.19 Touchdown % - 11% of targets The Giants design ways to get Beckham open, move him all over the formation and feed him with targets. Sammy largely lines up in the same spots and runs the same few routes. ODB has made some highlight catches, but he's also missed some easy ones he's tried to turn into highlights. Sammy's move on Revis to clinch the Jets game was a thing of beauty, but that's not leading sportscenter. You can argue Sammy's production may diminish with more targets, but looking at how each team uses each guy and the end result of their targets, it's conjecture to say ODB is clearly a better player than Sammy. ^this
KOKBILLS Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Wow, talk about unsupported speculation. Only on TSW . . . While I pretty much agree with your point, there's really only one way to find out...And that's if Sammy gets a QB at least close to Manning's ability...
K-9 Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 ODB 142 Targets Catch % - 60% of targets Yards per Target - 9.29 Touchdown % - 8.45 % of targets Sammy 64 Targets Catch % - 61% of targets Yards per Target - 11.19 Touchdown % - 11% of targets The Giants design ways to get Beckham open, move him all over the formation and feed him with targets. Sammy largely lines up in the same spots and runs the same few routes. ODB has made some highlight catches, but he's also missed some easy ones he's tried to turn into highlights. Sammy's move on Revis to clinch the Jets game was a thing of beauty, but that's not leading sportscenter. You can argue Sammy's production may diminish with more targets, but looking at how each team uses each guy and the end result of their targets, it's conjecture to say ODB is clearly a better player than Sammy. Roman and Taylor need to see these stats. When you extrapolate Sammy's numbers based on an equal amount of targets, it's almost criminal. Given the same opportunity to produce, OBJ can't hold Sammy's jock. GO BILLS!!!
truth on hold Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 ODB 142 Targets Catch % - 60% of targets Yards per Target - 9.29 Touchdown % - 8.45 % of targets Sammy 64 Targets Catch % - 61% of targets Yards per Target - 11.19 Touchdown % - 11% of targets The Giants design ways to get Beckham open, move him all over the formation and feed him with targets. Sammy largely lines up in the same spots and runs the same few routes. ODB has made some highlight catches, but he's also missed some easy ones he's tried to turn into highlights. Sammy's move on Revis to clinch the Jets game was a thing of beauty, but that's not leading sportscenter. You can argue Sammy's production may diminish with more targets, but looking at how each team uses each guy and the end result of their targets, it's conjecture to say ODB is clearly a better player than Sammy. By that logic Marcus easely is better than both: 2015 1 target Catch % - 100% Yards per target - 58 Touchdowns % - 100% Wtf isnt easely being thrown to more!?!?
thebandit27 Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 By that logic Marcus easely is better than both: 2015 1 target Catch % - 100% Yards per target - 58 Touchdowns % - 100% Wtf isnt easely being thrown to more!?!? You don't understand the concept of a sample space? I find that difficult to believe
Freddie's Dead Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 Wow, talk about unsupported speculation. Only on TSW . . . It's the difference between Eli Manning throwing to you, or Tie-rod Taylor. I've seen enough from Sammy to think that with a halfway decent QB and the 9-12 targets/game OBJ gets with the Giants, that Sammy would equal or surpass OBJ's output. Sammy's targets this year: 8, 2, 5, 8, 7, 6, 10, 4, 12 OBJ's targets this year: 8, 12, 9, 12, 11, 8, 6, 9, 17, 12, 18, 11, 9 Do you really believe that if Sammy was targeted anywhere near the same amount as OBJ that he wouldn't put up numbers at least as good or better? Chuck Wagon's stats are pretty convincing in this regard.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted December 16, 2015 Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Arguing about Sammy's ability or value is pointless. The real issue at hand is the fact that you never give up what we did for a WR. Nothing will ever change that. Only a prized QB would be worth it. It set us back. We could still have gotten a great WR. No matter how much you love Sammy, it made no sense. The arguement that OBJ is in a better situation because he has Manning confuses me as well. That means you're saying we have no QB. If we had no QB, what business did we have trading away the future for a WR? Think about it. This isn't about Sammy. It's about the lack of foresight from our front office. Edited December 16, 2015 by DriveFor1Outta5
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