BarleyNY Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Mario would need a new contract, not a restructure. He only has 2 years left on his deal - 2016 and 2017. In order to restructure, there have to be years left in the contract over which you can spread the money that you are converting from base salary to signing bonus money. I suppose it's possible that they add a year to his deal, but I don't think that--based on this year--they're ready to commit more guaranteed money to him to do so. With Clay, they could restructure his deal, but it's better long-term if they don't. If you can absorb one big year, then the final 3 are very reasonable. McKelvin's toast, no question. Same with Carpenter IMO. Aaron may not retire, but if he does, then they don't have to pay his option bonuses, roster bonuses, or base salary. A release would cost the team cap space, but a retirement would actually save almost $4M. One of he or Corey Graham will likely not be back. As for Clay, it's better to convert the $10M roster bonus to a signing bonus because unused cap space can be carried forward. It just creates flexibility.
purple haze Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Under your scenerio Bills have to add 7 starters....that is just crazy...not that I disagree...that is the proper way to move forward...even with the extra cap space freed up it still doesn't look too promising. Roster depth is going to be an issue as well. Filling seven starting positions via FA and draft is a difficult task. If many of them don't fit the scheme they have to be replaced anyway. Rex is not going to adjust his scheme to what's on hand so they will have to find players who fit better than what we have.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Great post ... mostly because it brings people back to reality. The OP's scenario is a pretty likely one, but that really doesn't matter. What does matter is that this team is going to lose some major contributors. OK, you want to keep Mario? Then goodbye to Gilmore or Glenn or someone else due a significant payday. Or keep them all and tie your hands completely, unable to dip into the free agent market for anything more than a stopgap (think Chris Williams, or Urbik) at some key positions where you need to get better. This is why some of us have been saying you have to win in 2015 -- a lot of what Whaley did was to sacrifice the future for the present. Only thing is this: they haven't won in 2015. Oops. Indeed. Whaley has put this team in a bad situation for 2016.
billsfan714 Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Yeah after you make your cuts, check how many players you have under contract. Going to need money to fill out a roster, rookie pool, not much left after that.
Dopey Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I think they will keep Kyle and Lawson, and draft a pass rusher to replace Mario and a LB to replace Bradham. That's what I would do anyway! Agree with the rest - they are in decent shape as I don't think they will be big FA players and instead focus on re-signing their homegrown talent.Why would you keep Kyle? Love the guy but he's not a 3-4 nt and not a 3-4 de IMO. He's old, injury prone and not cheap. If we're going to get rid of Mario, might as well go all the way and get rid of all this defensive talent that Rex doesn't know how to utilize. Bradahm all of a sudden sucks when this off season all I read here is sign him. Signing Rex was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. A fat ass square peg that is. Jmo.
UBBullsfan Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Get rid of Tyrod Taylor please. He's not going to take you anywhere worthwhile
Bill from NYC Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Hasn't Lawson play well this year?No, he is awful, but he had a decent first half vs. the Eagles.
8-8 Forever? Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 20M won't cover the loss of Kyle Williams or Mario Williams. Where is the pass rush? IK/Wynn and Hughes off the edges. Forgot about losing Wynn (damn we had a lot of D guys go down this year). Dareus up front. Rex's defense is blitz heavy interchangeable parts of guys who do what they are told. If old man Kyle can make it back, that would be great... they will take a long look. really needed him this year.
YoloinOhio Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Why would you keep Kyle? Love the guy but he's not a 3-4 nt and not a 3-4 de IMO. He's old, injury prone and not cheap. If we're going to get rid of Mario, might as well go all the way and get rid of all this defensive talent that Rex doesn't know how to utilize. Bradahm all of a sudden sucks when this off season all I read here is sign him. Signing Rex was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. A fat ass square peg that is. Jmo.I would keep Kyle because he is ultra talented, was still playing at a high level before he got hurt and I don't believe he is injury prone. He's disciplined and smart enough to execute the plays and they operate out of so many different looks I don't know if they make personnel decisions based on any base 3-4 or 4-3 package but rather the level he is playing at and his versatility. He's also such a leader that he's a coach on that field. I think he's worth his salary - don't need to get rid of everyone. Edited December 15, 2015 by YoloinOhio
billykaykay Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Indeed. Whaley has put this team in a bad situation for 2016. I get it. You don't like Whaley.
BrooklynBills Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I got to $39 million, releasing Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Leodis McKelvin, Corey Graham, Manny Lawson, Dan Carpenter, Kraig Urbik, Anthony Dixon, Cyrus Kouandijo, Jarius Winn, Marquis Goodwin, Duke Williams, Chris Gragg, and Kevin Reddick. That doesn't include the savings from a possible restructure of Clay's contract(converting his $10 mil roster bonus into a signing bonus saves us another 7.5 million while raising his cap number in the last 3 years from 6.5 to 9; there is really no reason not to do this as the cap will always be going up.) If Aaron Williams retires, that saves us another 4.8 million. Also, Stephon Gilmore is slated to be an $11 million cap hit, which should go down some(anywhere from 3-7 million if he signs an expected extension) as I don't expect the cap hit on a new contract to be that high. So with just these somewhat obvious moves, we can get to $55-$57 million in cap space. Re-sign: Incognito: 5 Glenn: 8 Still going into FA with $42 million in space. UFA Needs - possible targets(how much money we should expect to send): WR Jermaine Kearse, Mohamed Sanu, Marvin Jones, Josh Gordon? (3-6 million) RG Alex Boone (3-5 million) RT (draft) NT - Damon Harrison (~6 million) ILB - Rolando McClain, Demario Davis (3-4 million) OLB - Courtney Upshaw, Nick Perry(2-4 million) FS - Eric Weddle, Reggie Nelson, (5-9 million) SS - Mark Barron (2-4 million) On the high end(unlikely to spend this much IMO), that's about $40 million, but I doubt we just sign starters at every position of need. I would expect us to spend most of the draft on adding offense, likely a QB, T, WR/TE with 3 of the first 4 picks. I would love to go out into free agency and sign Kearse ($4-5 million), Harrison ($5-6 million), Weddle ($10-11 million), Upshaw ($3-4 million), and Barron ($2-3 million). That still leaves us with $13 million in space. Weddle is probably somewhat of a pipe dream so if we replace him with Reggie Nelson ($5 million), we would have roughly 18 million left. Also, these are all salary averages so there cap numbers could likely be lower in year one. I don't see how we don't make major roster changes, especially on defense, in the offseason.
Manther Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Practical, well thought out, and forward looking. I can't disagree with any of these moves. My priorities are as follows: 1. Fix the defense, Rex is not going anywhere, so get him the pieces. This includes taking a look at Muhammad Wilkerson, and a nose guard. A front of Wilkerson-Harrison-Dareus is feasibily strong. Hughes-Brown-Lawson-Bradham will not all be back. I'm guessing Lawson and Bradham are out, and we will need to draft and acquire 2 more to play with Hughes and Brown. If we can get Gilmore back, we are set at corner. We need major help at Safety to play his defense. 2. Bring the left side of the OL back and fix the right side. 3. Our playmakers are good except for having a bigger or better #2 receiver. 4. Tyrod looks like he is and can improve. I'm an advocate for drafting a developmental QB. I like the Doughty kid. That is one way to do it. And, I would be fine with this way
Deranged Rhino Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I get it. You don't like Whaley. He doesn't like Whaley and doesn't understand how the cap works. Add those two positions together and you get a crusader with no sense of irony.
dave mcbride Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 No, he is awful, but he had a decent first half vs. the Eagles. He's not awful. He's a serviceable player who has made his fair share of plays this season.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) I got to $39 million, releasing Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Leodis McKelvin, Corey Graham, Manny Lawson, Dan Carpenter, Kraig Urbik, Anthony Dixon, Cyrus Kouandijo, Jarius Winn, Marquis Goodwin, Duke Williams, Chris Gragg, and Kevin Reddick. That doesn't include the savings from a possible restructure of Clay's contract(converting his $10 mil roster bonus into a signing bonus saves us another 7.5 million while raising his cap number in the last 3 years from 6.5 to 9; there is really no reason not to do this as the cap will always be going up.) If Aaron Williams retires, that saves us another 4.8 million. Also, Stephon Gilmore is slated to be an $11 million cap hit, which should go down some(anywhere from 3-7 million if he signs an expected extension) as I don't expect the cap hit on a new contract to be that high. So with just these somewhat obvious moves, we can get to $55-$57 million in cap space. Re-sign: Incognito: 5 Glenn: 8 Still going into FA with $42 million in space. UFA Needs - possible targets(how much money we should expect to send): WR Jermaine Kearse, Mohamed Sanu, Marvin Jones, Josh Gordon? (3-6 million) RG Alex Boone (3-5 million) RT (draft) NT - Damon Harrison (~6 million) ILB - Rolando McClain, Demario Davis (3-4 million) OLB - Courtney Upshaw, Nick Perry(2-4 million) FS - Eric Weddle, Reggie Nelson, (5-9 million) SS - Mark Barron (2-4 million) On the high end(unlikely to spend this much IMO), that's about $40 million, but I doubt we just sign starters at every position of need. I would expect us to spend most of the draft on adding offense, likely a QB, T, WR/TE with 3 of the first 4 picks. I would love to go out into free agency and sign Kearse ($4-5 million), Harrison ($5-6 million), Weddle ($10-11 million), Upshaw ($3-4 million), and Barron ($2-3 million). That still leaves us with $13 million in space. Weddle is probably somewhat of a pipe dream so if we replace him with Reggie Nelson ($5 million), we would have roughly 18 million left. Also, these are all salary averages so there cap numbers could likely be lower in year one. I don't see how we don't make major roster changes, especially on defense, in the offseason. You are releasing 27% of your roster to get in that cap space...really puts it into perspective... He doesn't like Whaley and doesn't understand how the cap works. Add those two positions together and you get a crusader with no sense of irony. This thread is a PRIME example of CAP HELL! Edited December 15, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
Deranged Rhino Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 You are releasing 27% of your roster to get in that cap space...really puts it into perspective... This thread is an example of CAP HELL! No, it's not. It's really not. The fact you think it is though is quite funny.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) No, it's not. It's really not. The fact you think it is though is quite funny. YES IT IS The only solutions I have read is releasing close to a 1/5th of the roster that will give you about 30-35 million in cap space. Replacing 6 or 7 starters that you needed to cut to get the cap space, then use that money and draft picks to replace those people you just cut. Doesn't even account for re-signing your own and other free agents, rookie pool etc. The solutions in this thread is the result of CAP HELL! Edited December 15, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
Manther Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 I got to $39 million, releasing Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Leodis McKelvin, Corey Graham, Manny Lawson, Dan Carpenter, Kraig Urbik, Anthony Dixon, Cyrus Kouandijo, Jarius Winn, Marquis Goodwin, Duke Williams, Chris Gragg, and Kevin Reddick. That doesn't include the savings from a possible restructure of Clay's contract(converting his $10 mil roster bonus into a signing bonus saves us another 7.5 million while raising his cap number in the last 3 years from 6.5 to 9; there is really no reason not to do this as the cap will always be going up.) If Aaron Williams retires, that saves us another 4.8 million. Also, Stephon Gilmore is slated to be an $11 million cap hit, which should go down some(anywhere from 3-7 million if he signs an expected extension) as I don't expect the cap hit on a new contract to be that high. So with just these somewhat obvious moves, we can get to $55-$57 million in cap space. Re-sign: Incognito: 5 Glenn: 8 Still going into FA with $42 million in space. UFA Needs - possible targets(how much money we should expect to send): WR Jermaine Kearse, Mohamed Sanu, Marvin Jones, Josh Gordon? (3-6 million) RG Alex Boone (3-5 million) RT (draft) NT - Damon Harrison (~6 million) ILB - Rolando McClain, Demario Davis (3-4 million) OLB - Courtney Upshaw, Nick Perry(2-4 million) FS - Eric Weddle, Reggie Nelson, (5-9 million) SS - Mark Barron (2-4 million) On the high end(unlikely to spend this much IMO), that's about $40 million, but I doubt we just sign starters at every position of need. I would expect us to spend most of the draft on adding offense, likely a QB, T, WR/TE with 3 of the first 4 picks. I would love to go out into free agency and sign Kearse ($4-5 million), Harrison ($5-6 million), Weddle ($10-11 million), Upshaw ($3-4 million), and Barron ($2-3 million). That still leaves us with $13 million in space. Weddle is probably somewhat of a pipe dream so if we replace him with Reggie Nelson ($5 million), we would have roughly 18 million left. Also, these are all salary averages so there cap numbers could likely be lower in year one. I don't see how we don't make major roster changes, especially on defense, in the offseason. I could get $120 million if I released the whole team!! YES IT IS The only solutions I have read is releasing close to a 1/5th of the roster that will give you about 30-35 million in cap space. Replacing 6 or 7 starters that you needed to cut to get the cap space, then use that money and draft picks to replace those people you just cut. Doesn't even account for re-signing your own and other free agents, rookie pool etc. The solutions in this thread is the result of CAP HELL! Shame on Whaley for drafting players that are good and need resigned. Putting together a good roster has ruined this team. Wait, no, that's what Rex did!
Deranged Rhino Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 YES IT IS Incorrect. Cap hell is where your team is hamstrung by the cap and unable to make moves because your hands are tied. This does not come close to describing the Bills' position, as evidenced by (now) 3 pages of this thread wherein we see multiple ways in which the Bills can make adjustments and free up well over 25 million in room. That's not cap hell, that's cap flexibility by definition which is exactly how good teams manage their cap. And as Bandit pointed out in the OP, the site isn't accounting for the 10+ million increase in cap room the NFL is expecting. So add another 10 onto the total and the Bills are in more than respectable shape to make moves, resign the guys they want from their own rosters, and make a few moves in UFA without losing any of their key pieces. How does that equate to cap hell again? Right... it doesn't, unless you have an ax to grind against Whaley -- whom, as most non casual football fans understand, isn't even the Bills capologist which makes the hand wringing over how he's managed the cap even more hilarious. I understand you're desperate to prove your position correct, but it helps if you look at the situation with open eyes.
offyourocker Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Isn't it funny how it all comes to down to people's ego. If Rex was smart he would have done anything to keep our DC from last year. Let him run his scheme which our personnel was obviously suited for. He could and should have focused on being a head coach. Get a game plan ready, focus his players, manage the game....
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