Coach Tuesday Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Extreme? Ha. Okay. Consider yourselves bludgeoned then. All of you. May be this should more like PPP wherein only a singular perspective exists. It's pretty extreme to insist that the coach is not responsible for a record number of penalties. Especially the pre-snap and post-whistle ones.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Yes, I have wondered how the head coach interview process went and specifically with Rex. Were any of them smart enough to say "We have millions invested in our defensive line. How are you going to use them?" or, because of Rex's reputation did they assume he was going to use them properly and not try to force them into his scheme? My guess it was likely the latter and they probably didn't even get into such details. In the press conferences at the time of the hire, Terry literally said that he felt Rex out from a culture perspective, and then Rex and Whaley talked for almost 2 days about schemes and strategies. So I have to assume it was discussed. It was a multiple-day job interview. Of course they are going to discuss such details with ANY coach they were to hire.
The Big Cat Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 It's pretty extreme to insist that the coach is not responsible for a record number of penalties. Especially the pre-snap and post-whistle ones. I have never said that. In fact, I acknowledged the coach's have an impact. In the press conferences at the time of the hire, Terry literally said that he felt Rex out from a culture perspective, and then Rex and Whaley talked for almost 2 days about schemes and strategies. So I have to assume it was discussed. It was a multiple-day job interview. Of course they are going to discuss such details with ANY coach they were to hire. I don't think the accounted for the massive drop off in Mario's play.
Niagara Dude Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 The play and penalty itself didn't matter overall in the game, but I think it's a real indicator of what is wrong with the Bills, and ultimately wrong with Rex. You have a team that has a problem with penalties all season, yet Boobie decides to flap his gums at an Eagles player anyway and get a flag. If it weren't for an offsetting foul, the penalty would have nullified a good special teams play. But it did nullify a chance to move the Eagles back even further. It boggles my mind that a professional football player behaves like this, selfishly feeling he had to talk smack after a play. It only took Jerry Hughes half the season to reign in that behavior. When Rex announced his pushups-for-penalties policy, it struck me as something a high school coach does. And funny how it went away after one week. How is this even an issue on an NFL team half way into a season? This is a terrible look for Rex. He runs a lax ship. He's probably too loyal to flunky coaches. His antics only magnify after losses. (How did Rob Ryan's input look?) And he took a talented defense and made then mediocre. (To me scheme fit is a BS excuse since Pettine ran his scheme two years ago.) For all the hand wringing over the players, I think the problems start with Rex. Another loser move on Whaley's watch, we kept this garbage RB because of his special teams play and our special teams has sucked bad this season. Keeping a leader vet like Fred Jackson gives you a guy who can still make some plays and does not play stupid football.
finn Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 It wasn't funny the second third or fourth times you tried to insult me either, tough guy. How about you grow up and stop being a jerk? Everyone is operating on the assumption that nothing happened to Boobie. Where is the evidence of this? Fair question. I'm basing my comment on what Ryan has said in the past about "doing something" about penalties and later revealing that push ups were his solution, and Robie's recent comment. Here's the quote: '“In your mind, you’re like ‘Yo, it has to stop one day. It has to stop one day.’ You see us at practice every day,” Robey said. “The push-ups. The wristbands. We have to wake up one day and it just has to stop. We can’t talk about it anymore. The talking is over, the talking is over. We have to just do it.”'
Utah John Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Overall Whaley has done a very good job at picking talent, but not so much at picking character or intelligence. Sometimes a questionable character pick, say, Incognito, turns out to be a really good player who just needed to grow up a bit to become a valuable contributor, yesterday notwithstanding. OTOH Jerry Hughes is either stupid or crazy or some body part south of the waist. This past week Ryan was interviewed about the Shady trade, and he said something to the effect of, we needed a running back and we weren't sure what would happen with CJ Spiller being a free agent. Not a word about Fred Jackson. Granted FJ was not the most explosive back but Ryan and Whaley completely disregarded the effect leadership has on a player's worth. Mario is a highly talented player and he wants to be in a scheme where he can use his talents. There are a lot of people like that. The problem is that he's now in a scheme where his talents are wasted. He does not play hard most of the time, and everyone sees it. This is not leadership. It's not really poor character, it's more that his personality doesn't bring that out. He's a great player, don't get me wrong, but that part of the package isn't there. Dareus plays well but not to his full capacity. That's a shame. The Kyle Williams injury and the FJ release cut the two great leaders of the team out from under everyone. Who's going to step up? TT? I wish he would, but I get the feeling the Bills FO isn't sold on him and so the other players aren't all in either. I'm beginning to think Sammie Watkins is looking around for teams to jump to when he becomes a free agent, since like Mario Williams he isn't being given a chance to shine, ether, at least in his eyes. That will be two first round picks walking out the door when that happens. Anyway I don't see Sammie showing the kind of leadership the offense needs. The leader probably should be McCoy but here again he seems an on-again, off-again type, not the guy the others listen to.
Beerball Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 can someone please !@#$ing explain precisely what a coach is supposed to do? these men have been playing football for decades. the rules didn't suddenly change when they entered the pros. yes, they took 15 !@#$ing penalties yesterday. And yet, a fluke play on a second and 26 (that nobody is talking about enough) and a blatant pick to set up the go-ahead FG was the difference 15 penalties and the game was there to be won. stop blaming coaches. players make plays. punt returners fumble. and defensive players do things to change games. riddle me this: when was the last time a defender changed the game in a positive way for the bills? coaching? !@#$ no. there is no leadership among the players. stop. blaming. the coaches. I'm late to this party, but, (& I think you can guess what direction this will take) an over the top bigger than life coach who is overly demonstrative is likely to beget players who are overly demonstrative. Overly demonstrative players are prone to be overly demonstrative which leads to errors in judgement. Rex needs to bring in a taskmaster this offseason and give him the authority to handle all of the day to day and game day stuff that Rex isn't interested in bothering with. That will allow Rex to bluster and have his fun while somebody else is keeping an eye on the barn door.
The Big Cat Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) I'm late to this party, but, (& I think you can guess what direction this will take) an over the top bigger than life coach who is overly demonstrative is likely to beget players who are overly demonstrative. Overly demonstrative players are prone to be overly demonstrative which leads to errors in judgement. Rex needs to bring in a taskmaster this offseason and give him the authority to handle all of the day to day and game day stuff that Rex isn't interested in bothering with. That will allow Rex to bluster and have his fun while somebody else is keeping an eye on the barn door. Is it fair to say that between the officiating and between this demonstrative play which has only wielded negative results this year, that this team has been bashed over the head with Murphy's law? That through 13 games if there were two outcomes to every scenario, that it came up negative every time? I sometimes get the feeling that it could not have gotten any worse than it was this year. Somehow 2015 may have actually been the most unlucky season of the entire damn drought, and that's saying something. Edited December 14, 2015 by The Big Cat
HT02 Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 The play and penalty itself didn't matter overall in the game, but I think it's a real indicator of what is wrong with the Bills, and ultimately wrong with Rex. You have a team that has a problem with penalties all season, yet Boobie decides to flap his gums at an Eagles player anyway and get a flag. If it weren't for an offsetting foul, the penalty would have nullified a good special teams play. But it did nullify a chance to move the Eagles back even further. It boggles my mind that a professional football player behaves like this, selfishly feeling he had to talk smack after a play. It only took Jerry Hughes half the season to reign in that behavior. When Rex announced his pushups-for-penalties policy, it struck me as something a high school coach does. And funny how it went away after one week. How is this even an issue on an NFL team half way into a season? This is a terrible look for Rex. He runs a lax ship. He's probably too loyal to flunky coaches. His antics only magnify after losses. (How did Rob Ryan's input look?) And he took a talented defense and made then mediocre. (To me scheme fit is a BS excuse since Pettine ran his scheme two years ago.) For all the hand wringing over the players, I think the problems start with Rex. I agree, just another example of a stupid inexcusable penalty.
Solomon Grundy Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 can someone please !@#$ing explain precisely what a coach is supposed to do? these men have been playing football for decades. the rules didn't suddenly change when they entered the pros. yes, they took 15 !@#$ing penalties yesterday. And yet, a fluke play on a second and 26 (that nobody is talking about enough) and a blatant pick to set up the go-ahead FG was the difference 15 penalties and the game was there to be won. stop blaming coaches. players make plays. punt returners fumble. and defensive players do things to change games. riddle me this: when was the last time a defender changed the game in a positive way for the bills? coaching? !@#$ no. there is no leadership among the players. stop. blaming. the coaches. I'd send a message and RELEASE him from the team!! He's not a major contributor in any sense. Players need to know that this won't be tolerated. Use your brain or be unemployed. Playing in the NFL or any major sport is a privilege
peterpan Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) can someone please !@#$ing explain precisely what a coach is supposed to do? these men have been playing football for decades. the rules didn't suddenly change when they entered the pros. yes, they took 15 !@#$ing penalties yesterday. And yet, a fluke play on a second and 26 (that nobody is talking about enough) and a blatant pick to set up the go-ahead FG was the difference 15 penalties and the game was there to be won. stop blaming coaches. players make plays. punt returners fumble. and defensive players do things to change games. riddle me this: when was the last time a defender changed the game in a positive way for the bills? coaching? !@#$ no. there is no leadership among the players. stop. blaming. the coaches. Belicheat cuts players like this on the spot. It happens all the time. If a player gets a taunting penalty or fumbles he is pulled from the game and never goes back in. Sometimes he doesnt get a carry for weeks. Who was the RB they used last year for 1 game? He had like 150 yards and 4 TDs. He was late for a meeting the next week (or maybe said something stupid to the media?) and he NEVER dressed again. He was cut a few weeks later. Edited December 14, 2015 by peterpan
/dev/null Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Can we change the thread title please to unsportspersonlike. Your Micro-Aggression® is offensive. Somebody should petition the NFL
Beerball Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Is it fair to say that between the officiating and between this demonstrative play which has only wielded negative results this year, that this team has been bashed over the head with Murphy's law? That through 13 games if there were two outcomes to every scenario, that it came up negative every time? I sometimes get the feeling that it could not have gotten any worse than it was this year. Somehow 2015 may have actually been the most unlucky season of the entire damn drought, and that's saying something. it has sucked. There appears (to me) to be a leadership vacuum on the team. You don't draft those and you rarely get them via FA. You gotta grow them yourself and that takes some time. I am so disappointed with the defense that Rex has led that I actually forget the holes that are on the offensive side of the ball. I don't know how quickly this lower level mediocre team can be fixed. We're different than we were but the result is the same. Sorry for rambling & not answering your post. Very frustrated with how this season unfolded.
The Big Cat Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I'd send a message and RELEASE him from the team!! He's not a major contributor in any sense. Players need to know that this won't be tolerated. Use your brain or be unemployed. Playing in the NFL or any major sport is a privilege I would have no problem cutting Dixon...however...(see number two below) Belicheat cuts players like this on the spot. It happens all the time. If a player gets a taunting penalty or fumbles he is pulled from the game and never goes back in. Sometimes he doesnt get a carry for weeks. Who was the RB they used last year for 1 game? He had like 150 yards and 4 TDs. He was late for a meeting the next week (or maybe said something stupid to the media?) and he NEVER dressed again. He was cut a few weeks later. Seriously, Bills fans need to stop using Bellichick and the Patriots* as a benchmark. Seriously. One, Bellichick is a better coach than Ryan, everyone !@#$ing knows this. And if they don't, it's because they can't admit he's probably the GOAT. Two, when you have the GOAT QB you can make roster moves willy nilly. Guys can get cut/benched because the all-world qb can mask deficiencies in players 30-53. We simply don't have that luxury. And posters acting as if are totally mental if they think we can just wing it and put guys out of a job. You think Buffalo has a tough time attracting FA talent now? Here! Come play for the team that's had the fourth worst record this century, our town has none of the amenities that young millionaires want, and we're likely to cut you if you !@#$ up. Get real, Bills fans. Buffalo can't comport itself this way and you damn well know it. it has sucked. There appears (to me) to be a leadership vacuum on the team. You don't draft those and you rarely get them via FA. You gotta grow them yourself and that takes some time. I am so disappointed with the defense that Rex has led that I actually forget the holes that are on the offensive side of the ball. I don't know how quickly this lower level mediocre team can be fixed. We're different than we were but the result is the same. Sorry for rambling & not answering your post. Very frustrated with how this season unfolded. I've shouted about the lockerroom leadership vacuum throughout this thread. Please don't apologize.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I would have no problem cutting Dixon...however...(see number two below) Seriously, Bills fans need to stop using Bellichick and the Patriots* as a benchmark. Seriously. One, Bellichick is a better coach than Ryan, everyone !@#$ing knows this. And if they don't, it's because they can't admit he's probably the GOAT. Two, when you have the GOAT QB you can make roster moves willy nilly. Guys can get cut/benched because the all-world qb can mask deficiencies in players 30-53. We simply don't have that luxury. And posters acting as if are totally mental if they think we can just wing it and put guys out of a job. You think Buffalo has a tough time attracting FA talent now? Here! Come play for the team that's had the fourth worst record this century, our town has none of the amenities that young millionaires want, and we're likely to cut you if you !@#$ up. Get real, Bills fans. Buffalo can't comport itself this way and you damn well know it. I've shouted about the lockerroom leadership vacuum throughout this thread. Please don't apologize. I'll even add 3: They covered this on WGR this morning when they were sick of hearing callers say "If it were Belichick...". Belichick does not CUT players for mistakes mid-season nearly as much as we all like to think. He may bench a guy, but rarely do they get cut. And the Bills already did this when they cut Thigpen, then had to cut Moore, then benched McKelvin, and brought back Thigpen. Another thing that shows, that people need to realize, is that there arent a lot of able-bodied players just sitting around waiting to be picked up if you cut a guy mid-season.
Beerball Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 It wasn't relevant that you said you lettered in 112 sports in high school therefore you knew the Bills players were undisciplined. How about you grow up and realize that other people can possibly see things that maybe you can't. Like 100 people in this thread alone. Rex came in with a reputation for being undisciplined. I wasn't too worried about it at the time. I was wrong. It is ok to admit you're wrong once in a while. I'm not saying Rex can't change, but if he doesn't, we could get the most disciplined 53 players in the history of football in here and they would still be penalized more than they should be. knock it off
Beerball Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I've shouted about the lockerroom leadership vacuum throughout this thread. Please don't apologize. i literally got to your OP and replied then jumped to the last page. I apologize for not policing this thread because the little I've seen leads me to believe that you e been on the receiving end of some idiotic comments. Sorry about that. Often people here feel that belittling someone furthers their cause. How they don't see that they come off as complete jackasses is beyond my powers of comprehension. Then you get the pied piper effect and the ferrets get really brave because there's strength in numbers & all that crap. If I had more time I'd gladly spend a couple hours on this thread and hours on countless others trying to clean them up but I don't have that time right now. So, I'll shoot from the hip, so to speak, from now until things slow down for me. (those of you acting like asses here or in other threads can consider this a shot across your bow) Truth is there's plenty of blame to go around. It starts with ownership, trickles down to GM then coaches then players. IMO the higher you are on the food chain the more responsibility you bear.
The Big Cat Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 i literally got to your OP and replied then jumped to the last page. I apologize for not policing this thread because the little I've seen leads me to believe that you e been on the receiving end of some idiotic comments. Sorry about that. Often people here feel that belittling someone furthers their cause. How they don't see that they come off as complete jackasses is beyond my powers of comprehension. Then you get the pied piper effect and the ferrets get really brave because there's strength in numbers & all that crap. If I had more time I'd gladly spend a couple hours on this thread and hours on countless others trying to clean them up but I don't have that time right now. So, I'll shoot from the hip, so to speak, from now until things slow down for me. (those of you acting like asses here or in other threads can consider this a shot across your bow) Truth is there's plenty of blame to go around. It starts with ownership, trickles down to GM then coaches then players. IMO the higher you are on the food chain the more responsibility you bear. Ha, appreciate you looking out. It's all good! I'll even add 3: They covered this on WGR this morning when they were sick of hearing callers say "If it were Belichick...". Belichick does not CUT players for mistakes mid-season nearly as much as we all like to think. He may bench a guy, but rarely do they get cut. And the Bills already did this when they cut Thigpen, then had to cut Moore, then benched McKelvin, and brought back Thigpen. Another thing that shows, that people need to realize, is that there arent a lot of able-bodied players just sitting around waiting to be picked up if you cut a guy mid-season. Yep, you're absolutely right. Nor are there able-bodied players good enough to come in and not negatively impact this team in ways it's not talented enough to overcome. Nor are there able-bodied players chomping at the bit to come play for Buffalo like they might be for the team that's been in the SB or conference championship 10 of the last 14 years.
peterpan Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I would have no problem cutting Dixon...however...(see number two below) Seriously, Bills fans need to stop using Bellichick and the Patriots* as a benchmark. Seriously. One, Bellichick is a better coach than Ryan, everyone !@#$ing knows this. And if they don't, it's because they can't admit he's probably the GOAT. Two, when you have the GOAT QB you can make roster moves willy nilly. Guys can get cut/benched because the all-world qb can mask deficiencies in players 30-53. We simply don't have that luxury. And posters acting as if are totally mental if they think we can just wing it and put guys out of a job. You think Buffalo has a tough time attracting FA talent now? Here! Come play for the team that's had the fourth worst record this century, our town has none of the amenities that young millionaires want, and we're likely to cut you if you !@#$ up. Get real, Bills fans. Buffalo can't comport itself this way and you damn well know it. Dixon is a nobody. YOu agree. We could cut him. "Bellichick is a better coach than Ryan, everyone !@#$ing knows this" Yes, exactly. A BETTER coach would do things BETTER, like, bench or cut players when they do dumb stuff.
FireChan Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I'll even add 3: They covered this on WGR this morning when they were sick of hearing callers say "If it were Belichick...". Belichick does not CUT players for mistakes mid-season nearly as much as we all like to think. He may bench a guy, but rarely do they get cut. And the Bills already did this when they cut Thigpen, then had to cut Moore, then benched McKelvin, and brought back Thigpen. Another thing that shows, that people need to realize, is that there arent a lot of able-bodied players just sitting around waiting to be picked up if you cut a guy mid-season. FYI, I think Harper got cut right after fumbling a punt. Not saying that's indicative of a larger point, but he DOES do it.
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