KOKBILLS Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I know conventional wisdom says turning over another staff is counter productive...And convention wisdom is probably right...For the most part at least... But in the case of Rex I'm all for bucking that conventional wisdom if that's what Pegs wants...Which I doubt... The Jets are 8-5 with Fitz lol... And there you go... Now...I will say the Jets made some nice moves to compliment the talent they already had...But they went out and replaced Rex with a highly respected, up and coming coordinator who quite obviously is capable of pressing the right buttons...I don't think there is any way the Jets have more overall talent than the Bills...That was pretty clear when the teams met head-to-head...And I think the Bills starting QB is better than Fitz...So how is it they have managed 8 wins playing a similar schedule? Coching? Maybe?
Billsguy Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I thought is was a mistake the very second I heard he was hired. I have no reason to change my mind. He has proven he is still a losing head coach.
jeffismagic Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Can people stop crowning the Jets? They still have to play the Patriots and we already beat them. The Jets have a similar level of talent as the Bills.
KOKBILLS Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Can people stop crowning the Jets? They still have to play the Patriots and we already beat them. The Jets have a similar level of talent as the Bills. It's not about crowning them...I doubt anyone thinks they'll even make the Playoffs... But they are clearly MUCH better under Bowles than they were with Rex...And their talent, while decent, certainly is no better than the Bills...So is it not fair to point that out while talking about Rex's failings here?
jeffismagic Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 It's not about crowning them...I doubt anyone thinks they'll even make the Playoffs... But they are clearly MUCH better under Bowles than they were with Rex...And their talent, while decent, certainly is no better than the Bills...So is it not fair to point that out while talking about Rex's failings here? Their talent is similar to the Bills. Last year Rex had Geno starting and then they added Fitz at QB, Brandon Marshall, Revis, Cromartie, and the top defensive player in the 2015 draft. Their cornerback situation was dreadful last and they Geno throwing pick after pick. Totally different roster. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand.
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I complained about this asinine hire back in August, again in September. By October I let it go knowing the inevitable outcome of another lost season. Schwartz needed to be kept at all costs and a competent OC brought in. The regression under Rex is pathetic and I'm still pissed off at wasting another year rooting for this team. Watching this years implosion was downright painful with the talent we had.
KOKBILLS Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Their talent is similar to the Bills. Last year Rex had Geno starting and then they added Fitz at QB, Brandon Marshall, Revis, Cromartie, and the top defensive player in the 2015 draft. Their cornerback situation was dreadful last and they Geno throwing pick after pick. Totally different roster. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand. I get it and I said as much in a previous post... So why exactly can Rex not achieve similar results with fairly equal roster talent and a better QB here in Buffalo? Seeing as though this is a thread about the Rex hire...Is it possible that, despite the obvious lack of talent and QB, Rex still was not a great HC at the end of his Jets tenure? Or is it a thread about making excuses for Rex when he was in NY? Not saying they were not legit excuses...But still...
jeffismagic Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Read his post. He said Jets and Bills are very close in talent which they are, while the Jets are in the thick of the playoff race and we were all but eliminated yesterday. Look at the Jets defense and look at ours. I did. You didn't read properly. Again.
GG Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I get it and I said as much in a previous post... So why exactly can Rex not achieve similar results with fairly equal roster talent and a better QB here in Buffalo? Seeing as though this is a thread about the Rex hire...Is it possible that, despite the obvious lack of talent and QB, Rex still was not a great HC at the end of his Jets tenure? Or is it a thread about making excuses for Rex when he was in NY? Not saying they were not legit excuses...But still... Keep the same QBs, but swap out Decker for Woods. Which QB does better?
jeffismagic Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) I get it and I said as much in a previous post... So why exactly can Rex not achieve similar results with fairly equal roster talent and a better QB here in Buffalo? Seeing as though this is a thread about the Rex hire...Is it possible that, despite the obvious lack of talent and QB, Rex still was not a great HC at the end of his Jets tenure? Or is it a thread about making excuses for Rex when he was in NY? Not saying they were not legit excuses...But still... Is the season over yet? Technically no. Jets and Bills will both miss playoffs and finish with a similar record. So if Bowles is awesome, what does that make Rex if the Jets have similar talent? Edited December 14, 2015 by jeffismagic
JohnC Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 Im still like the Rex hire. Things many are very quick to forget around here and are very relevant whether they want to buy into it or not. 1. We have dealt with a terrible injury situation this year. Yes every team has dealt with injuries, but those teams typically don't win much. Even GB with an Elite QB and good coach has struggle a ton on offense after losing its #1 WR. Injuries factor in bigger than people want to accept. This year, our essentially rookie starting QB (rookie in terms of game time) played a large portion of the year hurt and missed games against teams we likely beat with him. If Taylor doesn't get hurt, we are probably sitting on a winning record. We have had our best playmakers all year on offense hurt most the year, and many have missed a ton of games. Our OL, which can't afford injuries has been hit hard as well. On defense, we have been missing key players in our secondary and LB core for much of the year. Bottom line, when teams lose this many KEY players, including the most important skill positions on offense, they struggle to win. People bag on Romo in Dallas, but just losing Romo takes Dallas from a playoff team to a bad team. Injuries matter a lot, especially at the positions we have had them at. So, for me, its pretty hard to judge Rex and this staff when they are playing with guys off our practice squad and backups at key positions. 2. We have an entire new system being implemented on both sides of the ball. Sometimes the transition isn't over night, and when you couple the transition with a new QB making his first starts and the injury situation mentioned above, it further complicates the process. Repetition creates consistency, but when your lineup is constantly changing with sub par players being subbed in because in some cases we are down to 3rd and 4th string players like we have been at times at OL, RB, WR, LB, and DB all year, then it because really hard to build the chemistry needed to build consistency. 3. Penalties - Yes, the coaching staff has a role in this, but it doesn't all fall on them. Sometimes players are just idiots, and guys like Hughes are just stupid on the field. I don't care what anyone says, the kind of bone head plays Hughes makes week in and week out is not on them, the guy just doesn't get it. It doesn't take a coach to tell him not to throw a punch on 4th down, thats something he knows but chooses to be an idiot. And he always has been. Last year he made lots of dumb plays too, but his effectiveness over shadowed it, so it didn't seem as bad. We have had lots of OL penalties too, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that our OL is bad with the injuries we have had to an already average line when healthy. 4. Half time adjustments - Say what you want about this staff, but they have been the best I have seen here in decades at making half time adjustments. Frequently, we have come out in the 2nd half and played better on both sides of the ball. 5. Officiating - Bills are getting the Dennis Rodman treatment right now. Because they have become known as a high penalty team, we have gotten some horrendous calls that have significantly effected the outcome of multiple games. I am the last guy to complain about officiating, but I will say with supreme confidence that bad calls have literally stolen 3 wins from us this year. Yes, everyone gets calls that goes for them and against them, and I will be the first to say that. But this year, I have seen some of the worst officiating I have ever seen (and not just against us, but in lots of games this year) and I firmly believe 3 wins have been stolen from us by horribly egregious calls that never should have happened. Im sure I will get this post slammed as a bunch of excuses, but people who call facts excuses are just making excuses to justify their stance. Above is ALL FACTS, period. And those facts heavily impact the win/loss columns for any head coach. Given the amount of turmoil this team has to over come this year, I would say that its pretty hard to blame it on Rex. No head coach is perfect and I still very much like the way this team stays in games and fights, something we haven't seen from the Bills in decades. When we are healthy, we are a different team and I am not ready to condemn Rex given all of the above. I'm not slamming anyone because you are entitled to your opinion. But the problem I have with many of your comments is that you are making excuses due to injuries, officiating and repeated bonehead plays by the same players, most notably Hughes. Yes, the Bills have been subjected to a number of injuries but so has every team in the league. The Pats have had their OL nearly completely devastated, the same with their receiver corps and their backfield. By the end of the season most teams are battered. That's the standard, not the exception. The Bills have sustained less injuries than the majority of teams. Please stop with the excuses regarding the officiating. It has been uneven for every team in the league. Yesterday's game was in general reasonably called. Were there some questionable calls that hurt us (pick play)? Absolutely. But if you ask the Eagles they could also make the same complaint. You single out Hughes for his stupid play on the field. If a particular player constantly does stupid things then why is the coaching staff tolerating it? Marrone wasn't afraid to challenge Dareus when he didn't play up to his ability. He wasn't afraid to take him off the field. The problem with this jovial HC is that his players are not taking him seriously. The Bills are one of the most penalized teams in the league. You don't think coaching is a factor? How much undisciplined play would Belichick tolerate compared to our huckster HC? It's not surprising that the Jets are a better team without the brash former HC than they were with him. It's not surprising that their more serious HC has his team playing with more discipline and collective intelligence than they did under the former braggart HC. The Jets team under Tod Bowles is noticeably more mature than under their former sloppy HC. If you don't believe me then compare the before and after records. The bottom line is that Rex took over a team that was markedly better on offense and very similar to what Marrone had to work with on defense. Compare the OL and qb situation that Marrone had to contend with? Compare the number of penalties committed under Rex to the dour Doug? RR inherited a wildcard playoff team. It was far from being an elite team. It certainly had roster flaws as do all teams have. Whether it was a good, bad or mediocre team that isn't the the most substantive issue here. The real issue is that this team under performed compared to its talent level. If you want to make excuses for how this season has unfolded then that is fine. If you consider the very glib Rex a good hire then that is fine. I strenuously disagree with your opinion regarding this obnoxious and undisciplined coach. When the Pegulas hired Rex they got exactly the type of season Rex is capable of delivering. You may find that hiring decision as smart, not I. I find it to be not only bad but also very peculiar. Coaching matters!
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 The issue i have with Rex is how he handles himself on the sideline. He just appears not in control. From poor challenges to no challenges to the way he sprinted down the sideline to call an obvious time out. I like Rex and like how he gets what the Bills mean to Buffalo and the fans everywhere. I hope another year and less injuries will equal a playoff birth finally.
BuffaninATL Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 The issue i have with Rex is how he handles himself on the sideline. He just appears not in control. From poor challenges to no challenges to the way he sprinted down the sideline to call an obvious time out. I like Rex and like how he gets what the Bills mean to Buffalo and the fans everywhere. I hope another year and less injuries will equal a playoff birth finally. ah, yes - that elusive playoff "birth"...
JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 +1 He doesn't make penalties, throw interceptions, fumble the ball, or get injured. Injuries have killed this team and anyone who doesn't believe injuries matter is a fool. If the replacement players we better or equal players, they'd play here or somewhere else. Injuries aren't an excuse, they're an explanation. Still don't have a QB either. Blame Rex all you want, the guy has never had a serious franchise QB. I'm not an apologist but you can't expect a guy to come in to an 8-8 team (that NE win was a joke) and with the addition only of an unknown QB, RB, WR (all who by the way missed game with injuries) and a handful of draft picks, not including a first, and have a lot of success when they injuries have piled up and up and up. Everyone that loves the blame game misses the importance of building a team. Whaley has done a god job drafting and getting talent but they're not good enough yet. The right side of line has been a problem all year (guess what... injuries), they have no legit #2 WR (they guy brought in... guess what, hurt). The LBs are mediocre. The safety play has been bad (guess what.... injuries). I don't give a **** who the coach is, this team lost way to many man games to injury, didn't make enough plays, and needs some serious upgrades at key positions... oh and has a mediocre QB, a minor issue in the NFL. Who would come in and be better? The next great college failure? The next great OC or DC to fail? The road to the NFL sideline is littered annually with the dead souls of former hot commodity coaches. Save the Jets are better. The talent on their D far outshines the Bills and sadly, Fitzpatrick has put together a waaaay better year than TT. Again, QB play matters, if you thought a rookie QB with what, one start (I don't even know), was going to lead this team to the playoffs, you should have your head examined. Last point about Fitz... speaks a little to my argument about patience. Yeah he's not perfect but this constant NFL shuffle of QBs and coaches on teams like the Bills gives you what you get, no continuity and no playoffs. Anyone confident this QB leads then to the playoffs next year? And BTW, with Shady shut up now? Sick of his tired act. BS. All teams have injuries, all teams have underachievers, all teams have blowhards. Good coaches mitigate all these factors and turn weaknesses into strengths. Bad coaches do ... whatever it is Rex does. Failure to hold players accountable, failure to game plan, failure to adapt and adjust.
Best Player Available Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 rex would make an excellent personal injury lawyer. And After a while you almost believe he actually has a clue. When Listening to his PC's. year two will be Huge. his defense is in turmoil. SSDD
Alphadawg7 Posted December 14, 2015 Posted December 14, 2015 I'm not slamming anyone because you are entitled to your opinion. But the problem I have with many of your comments is that you are making excuses due to injuries, officiating and repeated bonehead plays by the same players, most notably Hughes. Yes, the Bills have been subjected to a number of injuries but so has every team in the league. The Pats have had their OL nearly completely devastated, the same with their receiver corps and their backfield. By the end of the season most teams are battered. That's the standard, not the exception. The Bills have sustained less injuries than the majority of teams. Please stop with the excuses regarding the officiating. It has been uneven for every team in the league. Yesterday's game was in general reasonably called. Were there some questionable calls that hurt us (pick play)? Absolutely. But if you ask the Eagles they could also make the same complaint. You single out Hughes for his stupid play on the field. If a particular player constantly does stupid things then why is the coaching staff tolerating it? Marrone wasn't afraid to challenge Dareus when he didn't play up to his ability. He wasn't afraid to take him off the field. The problem with this jovial HC is that his players are not taking him seriously. The Bills are one of the most penalized teams in the league. You don't think coaching is a factor? How much undisciplined play would Belichick tolerate compared to our huckster HC? It's not surprising that the Jets are a better team without the brash former HC than they were with him. It's not surprising that their more serious HC has his team playing with more discipline and collective intelligence than they did under the former braggart HC. The Jets team under Tod Bowles is noticeably more mature than under their former sloppy HC. If you don't believe me then compare the before and after records. The bottom line is that Rex took over a team that was markedly better on offense and very similar to what Marrone had to work with on defense. Compare the OL and qb situation that Marrone had to contend with? Compare the number of penalties committed under Rex to the dour Doug? RR inherited a wildcard playoff team. It was far from being an elite team. It certainly had roster flaws as do all teams have. Whether it was a good, bad or mediocre team that isn't the the most substantive issue here. The real issue is that this team under performed compared to its talent level. If you want to make excuses for how this season has unfolded then that is fine. If you consider the very glib Rex a good hire then that is fine. I strenuously disagree with your opinion regarding this obnoxious and undisciplined coach. When the Pegulas hired Rex they got exactly the type of season Rex is capable of delivering. You may find that hiring decision as smart, not I. I find it to be not only bad but also very peculiar. Coaching matters! I have no problem with you having a problem with the things I stated, and you presented your counter points...all good, enjoy the differing opinions. My responses as follows: I was fully aware, and stated so in my original post, that I was going to get the "excuses" response on a lot of those, and you came in right on que. But the literal truth is, what I stated are flat out facts. People today have a real hard time differing between facts and excuses, especially when frustrated with a result. Perfect example...you brought up Patriots to some how disprove injuries as a legit reason and paint it as an excuse. Let me ask you this: How many games has Tom Brady missed this year? Hmmm...none. How many games has Tom Brady played through a significant injury? Hmmm....none. So pretty bad example considering our starting QB missed games and played hurt almost the whole season. And QB is the most important individual position in all of football. And guess what, our OL has had as many injuries as NE did. But we also lost multiple WR's, all of our RBs have been out for the season or multiple games, our TE has been hurt too. And all of this with a FIRST YEAR (capitals are for emphasis, not yelling by any means) quarterback...in which you are comparing the situation to Tom Brady and Bellichick, probably the greatest HC/QB duo in the history of the NFL. There are a TON more examples of teams falling apart facing the injuries we have faced than finding success. And, no offense, but the most ridiculous response to the injury comment is that "every team goes through it" which is the biggest false statement ever. Injuries happen to every team, yes. But they don't affect the same quality of players at the same positions...in other words, you can't just blindly label a teams injury situation as "no excuse, everyone has injuries" and not factor in who has been hurt and at what position. We have lost multiple starting OL, our starting QB, ALL of our RB's, back up RB's, multiple WR's, all of the WR's have been hurt at some point for the most part, our TE, our starting safety for the season, starting DB's, most of our LB's, DL depth, and even several backups filling in for many of those spots. Thats is NOT in ANY WAY the same thing every team goes through and to categorize that as if it is makes no logical sense in any way to evaluating the situation here in Buffalo. And I am really TIRED of the Jets are better this year...the Jets have a COMPLETELY different team than last year. Lets see, they only added a monster WR in Marshall, an upgrade at QB over pathetic Geno, two of the best DB's in the NFL, the best defensive player in the NFL draft, and depth at RB. This team is no where near the team it was when Rex coached it...so to act like they are better because Rex left is unbelievably misguided that it almost doesn't dignify a response to anyone making this meritless comparison. And the referees...ask anyone in the shout box, I am usually the one person defending the refs for the job they have to do and judging the play from an unbiased position rather than a Bills fan. Hell, a couple years ago I banned from the shout box for arguing about a play that was clearly a correct call by the refs, but everyone was so emotional about it not going the Bills way that people started dozens of arguments with me. That being said, this year, the refs have been the worst I have ever seen across the whole NFL. And I will say without a shadow of a doubt, the Bills have many times over gotten a very raw deal from refs, and 3 losses were dramatically impacted by those calls to the point where you can almost hang the final verdict on some of those calls. Yes, it happens to everyone...Ive even seen the Pats get screwed this year. But, that doesn't change the fact that the Bills had 3 games greatly swung by mistakes by the refs. Call it an excuse, but those things HAPPENED, which makes them a fact. I will be the first to argue back that it does happen to everyone and the Bills put themselves in positions where a call could swing a game, but still, the calls happened and that can't be ignored. Last year, we were NOT a good 9-7 team. This team wasn't very good last year, so lets no over inflate what we were last year when comparing to this year. Yes, the D has been a disappointment, but we are also very short handed in our secondary and LB positions, which hasn't helped. The offense is significantly better, especially considering all the injuries. When this team has been healthy, we look very different. So, for that reason, I still have faith in the staff and I think we are headed in the right direction overall. We need to go heavy on the OL and back 7 on D in the draft and help our trouble areas next year. Maybe sign another WR as well. Again, where I used all caps it was just to emphasize that word, not to yell that word. I respect your opinion on the matter, but this is my very differing opinion of where I still think its hard to tell where we are at based on the injuries we have had to play through. Ask Dallas about what happens to your team when your starting QB and starting WR aren't healthy. BS. All teams have injuries, all teams have underachievers, all teams have blowhards. Good coaches mitigate all these factors and turn weaknesses into strengths. Bad coaches do ... whatever it is Rex does. Failure to hold players accountable, failure to game plan, failure to adapt and adjust. Um, sorry but your statement is BS. Not all teams have the same injuries. Not all teams lose their starting QB, all their RBs, all their WRs, several starting OL, many of the starting secondary, all their starting LBs, etc. So people need to stop with this myth that all teams have injuries as if all things are equal because there is literally zero literal truth in that statement.
stinky finger Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Isnt it 17 years now? CBF Wait until this time next year. 17 is riiiiiight around the corner.
Playoff Bound Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 Read his post. He said Jets and Bills are very close in talent which they are, while the Jets are in the thick of the playoff race and we were all but eliminated yesterday. Look at the Jets defense and look at ours. Its simple. Rex leaves the Jets and the Jets improve. Rex joins the Bills and the Bills get worse. It really is that simple. How many more years does Rex have on his contract? That is how many more years the Bills don't make the playoffs.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 15, 2015 Posted December 15, 2015 ah, yes - that elusive playoff "birth"... Sorry for the miss spelling.Hope you feel better about yourself.
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