Reed83HOF Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 But that's not why they would get rid of him. It just makes it easier to do so. They have wanted to bring in someone to run football operations from the beginning and that person will have their own ideas about GM. It is entirely this. ^^^^
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) It is entirely this. ^^^^ Your agreement with this means the Bills get a 2nd rate GM because any top tier personnel man will not want to be forced to keep Rex as his coach. Edited December 9, 2015 by 26CornerBlitz
Reed83HOF Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 the Pegula's have already tipped their hand they tried to hire Bill Polian And I wonder if they go after him again. What other execs are our there? Ron Wolf, Joe Banner? Your agreement with this means the Bills get a 2nd rate GM because any top tier personnel man will not want to be forced to keep Rex as his coach. Honestly I would be shocked if we don't hire a czar; it honestly seems like a forgone conclusion. The stopping point for Polian was the HOF which make sense. Polian spurning them last year while Wolf was working with the Jets I think boxed the Pegula's in. They had no choice at that point but to move forward the best they could. GMs come into situations where they didn't hire the HC all the time. If anything it turns the heat up on Rex to produce; which I am cool with... What has changed this year that makes anyone feel they won't be looking again? Not saying that in a $hitty way; honest question...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 And I wonder if they go after him again. What other execs are our there? Ron Wolf, Joe Banner? Honestly I would be shocked if we don't hire a czar; it honestly seems like a forgone conclusion. The stopping point for Polian was the HOF which make sense. Polian spurning them last year while Wolf was working with the Jets I think boxed the Pegula's in. They had no choice at that point but to move forward the best they could. GMs come into situations where they didn't hire the HC all the time. If anything it turns the heat up on Rex to produce; which I am cool with... What has changed this year that makes anyone feel they won't be looking again? Not saying that in a $hitty way; honest question... The HOF wasn't a factor at all.
34-78-83 Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 A yawn article from Carucci. Anyone like to wager on Whaley not staying? I see it as a 100% lock he stays. Sorry there's no fandual fix lol, gotta do something.
Reed83HOF Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 The HOF wasn't a factor at all. Do you know that for certain? Does anyone really besides those involved? From what I recall, there was some chatter out there that if he came back, some voters were very hesitant to give him their vote since they saw it as a cap on their career... There wasn't much else out there at that time; what's not to say this isn't going to be the case this year? I am sure Pegs isn't the most comfortable right now having everyone report to him separately. Are the Pegs really qualified (or want to) to come between the GM and the Coach? I know they are the owners btw...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Do you know that for certain? Does anyone really besides those involved? From what I recall, there was some chatter out there that if he came back, some voters were very hesitant to give him their vote since they saw it as a cap on their career... There wasn't much else out there at that time; what's not to say this isn't going to be the case this year? I am sure Pegs isn't the most comfortable right now having everyone report to him separately. Are the Pegs really qualified (or want to) to come between the GM and the Coach? I know they are the owners btw... Both he and Wolf were locks to get in as contributors irrespective of them serving as Czars, advisers, or consultants.
Rico Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) And I wonder if they go after him again. What other execs are our there? Ron Wolf, Joe Banner? Honestly I would be shocked if we don't hire a czar; it honestly seems like a forgone conclusion. The stopping point for Polian was the HOF which make sense. Polian spurning them last year while Wolf was working with the Jets I think boxed the Pegula's in. They had no choice at that point but to move forward the best they could. GMs come into situations where they didn't hire the HC all the time. If anything it turns the heat up on Rex to produce; which I am cool with... What has changed this year that makes anyone feel they won't be looking again? Not saying that in a $hitty way; honest question... I see 3 things: 1. Hasn't happened yet, but making the playoffs. 2. Rex and Whaley actually working as a cohesive unit, instead of what has been reported. 3. Hasn't happened yet, but TT proving he is the future at QB (since Whaley can't be trusted to choose the next chosen one after the EJ debacle of these past 2 years) Edited December 9, 2015 by Rico
Reed83HOF Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Both he and Wolf were locks to get in as contributors irrespective of them serving as Czars, advisers, or consultants. While I agree, if I was in that position and heard the whispers, you bet your ass I would reconsider... Besides is it now a heavy lift with the coaching staff we have assembled? It feels like we are in a better position (minus the Defense) as we were last year... I see 3 things: 1. Hasn't happened yet, but making the playoffs. 2. Rex and Whaley actually working as a cohesive unit, instead of what has been reported. 3. Hasn't happened yet, but TT proving he is the future at QB (since Whaley can't be trusted to choose the next chosen one after the EJ debacle of these past 2 years) Last year the idea was it was time to clean house, get rid of the stench of RWs minions by going through the organization. Polian was ok with that, but didn't want to deal with a coaching search, assembling the staff and finding a QB. That isn't necessarily the case now... "Polian said he had spoken with Bills owner Terry Pegula during the holidays about returning to the club in a "mentoring/advisory" role on the assumption that Doug Marrone would still be the head coach and quarterback Kyle Orton would still be on the roster. "Then, the quarterback goes away and the coach disappears," Polian said, referring to Orton's decision to retire on Dec. 29 and Marrone's decision on Wednesday to exercise a clause that allowed him to vacate his contract with one year left. "So the job, from my perspective, changed," Polian said. "It went from a mentoring and advising role, which would have been fun, to a real heavy lift -- hire a new coach, hire a staff, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. "The bottom line is the job description changed pretty dramatically and the most important thing is that it would have required a really long commitment to a new coach, who deserved a long commitment that I wasn't prepared to make. And that wouldn't have been fair to the organization or to whomever their new coach was. The coach is going to want to know that you're going to be there for a reasonably long time." http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/01/01/polian-not-joining-bills-job-became-real-heavy-lift/
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 While I agree, if I was in that position and heard the whispers, you bet your ass I would reconsider... Besides is it now a heavy lift with the coaching staff we have assembled? It feels like we are in a better position (minus the Defense) as we were last year... Last year the idea was it was time to clean house, get rid of the stench of RWs minions by going through the organization. Polian was ok with that, but didn't want to deal with a coaching search, assembling the staff and finding a QB. That isn't necessarily the case now... "Polian said he had spoken with Bills owner Terry Pegula during the holidays about returning to the club in a "mentoring/advisory" role on the assumption that Doug Marrone would still be the head coach and quarterback Kyle Orton would still be on the roster. "Then, the quarterback goes away and the coach disappears," Polian said, referring to Orton's decision to retire on Dec. 29 and Marrone's decision on Wednesday to exercise a clause that allowed him to vacate his contract with one year left. "So the job, from my perspective, changed," Polian said. "It went from a mentoring and advising role, which would have been fun, to a real heavy lift -- hire a new coach, hire a staff, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. "The bottom line is the job description changed pretty dramatically and the most important thing is that it would have required a really long commitment to a new coach, who deserved a long commitment that I wasn't prepared to make. And that wouldn't have been fair to the organization or to whomever their new coach was. The coach is going to want to know that you're going to be there for a reasonably long time." http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/01/01/polian-not-joining-bills-job-became-real-heavy-lift/ Polian wanting Marrone and Orton tells me he should stay at ESPN. Thanks for the 90s Bill, but Stay Outta Town!
Reed83HOF Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Polian wanting Marrone and Orton tells me he should stay at ESPN. Thanks for the 90s Bill, but Stay Outta Town! LOL very true!
BillsVet Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) I suspect that Rex doesn't love Whaley. If he did, he's be praising him more them never, like he does to Tannenbaum in evey other freaking press conference. As I say above, I could be wrong, but I think it's more likely than not that Whaley is a goner. Teams that want a person re-sign them before a deal is up, especially when there's no equivalent of a franchise tag. Pretty much always. Again, I could be wrong. The QB competition this off-season, specifically EJM's week to week status, was very telling. First, Whaley reportedly talked up Manuel during the off-season and in HC interviews. But then camp started and the staff had EJ 3rd on the depth chart. Surprisingly, Rex gave EJ the first scrimmage start, and subsequently remained buried afterward. Yet, for the week 3 pre-season game EJM started despite being the 3rd guy pretty much all of camp. After that game, TT was named starter and Cassel held his spot as the backup until he was traded after week 2. And that trade inexplicably occurred after Manuel was not active in the first and second games. When you connect the dots here I don't think it's hard to see the two sides were using their respective power in an internal tug of war. With this kind of back and forth, the owner has to pick one guy or the other going into 2016. And right now, the guy likely to go is the one not hired by the current owner. Edited December 9, 2015 by BillsVet
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 The QB competition this off-season, specifically EJM's week to week status, was very telling. First, Whaley reportedly talked up Manuel during the off-season and in HC interviews. But then camp started and the staff had EJ 3rd on the depth chart. Surprisingly, Rex gave EJ the first scrimmage start, and subsequently remained buried afterward. Yet, for the week 3 pre-season game EJM started despite being the 3rd guy pretty much all of camp. After that game, TT was named starter and Cassel held his spot as the backup until he was traded after week 2. And that trade inexplicably occurred after Manuel was not active in the first and second games. When you connect the dots here I don't think it's hard to see the two sides were using their respective power in an internal tug of war. With this kind of back and forth, the owner has to pick one guy or the other going into 2016. And right now, the guy likely to go is the one not hired by the current owner.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Agreed, the irony is that I think that Whaley is a lot better at his job than Rex is at his. Yes. Whaley may only be average but Rex has been a liability. Rex was supposed to add defensive innovation to an already excellent defense but instead his biggest contributions appear to be recruiting Tyrod and Incognito. Any number of retreads could have outcoached Rex to this point this year.
Max997 Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 @viccarucci: According to a team source, #Bills won't, per SOP, have any discussions about the future of GM Doug Whaley "during the season." Weird tweet - isn't it normal to make these decisions in the offseason? Needless pot stirring by Vic? I mean - was anyone thinking about this while preparing for the Eagles game? The wording could hv been better and suggests that there may be something to discuss. As far as I'm concerned Whaley has done a great job and should absolutely be back.
beerme1 Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 I'm thinking much like I heard Whaley talking about player contracts this morning on the radio, they'll discuss contracts in the off season. Don't sweat it now it is what it is lets focus on winning out.
Nihilarian Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Agreed, the irony is that I think that Whaley is a lot better at his job than Rex is at his. I think so too, and just hope ownership sees it that way. Whaley still has a lot of warts, and could do a better job. but then he hasn't been a GM for 7 years or been in the NFL 19 years either.
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 If we fire Doug Whaley I will storm One Bills Drive demanding an answer..... and I live across the pond.... so that is one expensive flight. It would be a brain dead move to can Whaley to prop up Rex, however, I would not be surprised if it happened. The Pegulas are going to try and force Rex Ryan to be answer whether he is or not.
eball Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) One more thing - I think Bills fans often get too attached to Bills people who aren't terrible. Whaley isn't terrible. He's truly average. Edit: the fact that he said he's pursuing incognito and glenn extensions today sounds promising for him. So who knows. The first part of your statement is absolutely correct. The second part I don't agree with. I don't have the time or energy to do the legwork, but if you list all 32 GMs and compare their respective accomplishments -- taking into consideration how long they've had the job and how stable their organizations are -- I doubt Whaley grades out as merely "average." One would think from reading the comments from some on this board that Whaley is constantly barking in Rex's and Roman's ear about letting EJ play. Whaley was as critical of EJ this offseason as anyone. The "inexplicable" (as some have called it) trade of Cassel was likely a matter of what the market would bear. Columnists like Vic Carucci apparently can't understand that if Taylor is out the Bills are screwed -- with EJ or Cassel. That has proven itself out in Dallas, where Cassel has been brutal. It's a non-story that the Bills kept EJ and traded Cassel. Anyway, it's a shame that Vic Carucci has gone down the path of other columnists at TBN and now writes stories just to stir up stojan rather than providing any actual insight. Somebody will be proven right/wrong with respect to Whaley at the end of the year. Edited December 9, 2015 by eball
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) The "inexplicable" (as some have called it) trade of Cassel was likely a matter of what the market would bear. Columnists like Vic Carucci apparently can't understand that if Taylor is out the Bills are screwed -- with EJ or Cassel. That has proven itself out in Dallas, where Cassel has been brutal. It's a non-story that the Bills kept EJ and traded Cassel. 100% agree. The Cassel trade made sense when it was made and makes sense with hindsight too. We were equally screwed with either of them and they chose to keep the guy with bigger upside when they had an offer on the table for the other guy. That sounds very explicable to me. Edited December 9, 2015 by GunnerBill
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