The age old debate...QB vs OL

[thebandit27]

Agreed, but why are the Chargers with franchise QB Rivers 3-8 ?

Because they have a defense that allows 28 PPG, 30th in the NFL

 

As I said, their offense isn't a problem--6th in the league.

 

Remember, this is a QB or OL discussion, not a debate about whether it takes both sides of the ball to win consistently

[papazoid]

see Dallas without Romo.

[Cleveland Rocks?]

Definitely QB, QB, QB. The Browns have had a good OL for years. Enough said.

Because they have a defense that allows 28 PPG, 30th in the NFL

As I said, their offense isn't a problem--6th in the league.

Remember, this is a QB or OL discussion, not a debate about whether it takes both sides of the ball to win consistently

Rivers has *no* OL (they have been decimated by injuries all year) and still is like top 3 in the league in passing. Just another example.

[BackInDaDay]

Remember, this is a QB or OL discussion, not a debate about whether it takes both sides of the ball to win consistently

 

good level-setter..

maybe if the question was - which makes an NFL offense more productive, the QB or the O line? - folks could stay on topic.

 

but my problem with the premise of that argument, is that we're asked to examine the two in a vacuum that defies the reality of the environment in which they both participate.

 

there are skill position players, position coaches, an offensive coordinator, and head coach that factor into the equation.. and once you introduce all of these variables into in the equation, you'd be remiss in not considering the strength of the team's defense - when considering what level of risk is acceptable to offensive game plan.

 

for instance, the thoughts we share about us opening up our offensive attack against Houston is a response to how i think we match-up against the potential devastating nature of their current defense. there is the risk of executing such an attack without having executed it in game situations before, but the reward might be a healthy QB and enough points to win. the ability of our defense to contain the Texans' O in a game where we'd sacrifice time of possession due to such an O game plan - has to be considered. if i'm the HC, and i think my D is up to the task, that allows me to consider that offensive game plan an option. an option specifically designed to help our O line neutralize their D linemen and LBs.

 

the OP is a great place to start the discussion, and i applaud your attempt to keep things focused - as we're probably only a post or two away from another 'Tyrod sucks' hijacking - but it's hard, at least for me, to remain at such a simple level. it's almost like asking which is more valuable to the English language, the letter A, or B?

 

Edited December 5, 2015 by BackInDaDay

[Marty McFly]

Buy good refs. Then the OL is good (they get to hold.) Then just plug in any sixth-round pick behind them, and he'll be an All-Pro.

 

LOL well it worked 4 the pats. shud work for us!

[Nihilarian]

What's more important?

 

What should you get first?

 

Build a great OL or get a good QB then address the OL?

 

CBF

There is more to this debate then one simplistic answer, as teams are far more complicated then one QB or 5 linemen. The Bills have been attempting to obtain both over the last 15 years without much success. Its more about the team president, GM, coaches, and then the players.

 

My reasoning is it all starts at the top, and if that isn't the right guy then just about everything else fails. Lets talk about something most every Buffalo Bills fan should know about in ex Bills GM Bill Polian.

 

Think back to the mid 80's Bills, and the Bill Polian days, and then look at his history throughout the different jobs he has had over the years. He managed to get Jim Kelly signed, and then went on to Carolina where he drafted Kerry Collins. Then the Colts, and Peyton Manning. Three different teams he found three different QB's, and all three went to a super bowl at some point. Granted those were all first round picks, and two were first overall. Collins was the 5th pick.

 

Still, other teams have had a myriad amount of chances at drafting QB's in the first round, and have failed greatly mostly because those players went to bad teams. With Polian it wasn't just all about the QB because he managed to build playoff teams so quickly at each job.

 

In Buffalo he was hired as director of pro player personnel in 1984, and took over as GM in 1985, and by1988 the Bills were 12-4, in 3 short years. We all know the result of those years, as he did take over a league worst team and had a couple of decent players to start. He managed to talk Ralph Wilson into paying Kelly more then any other QB in the league, and made him the highest paid. After he signed Kelly In 1986 Polian drafted LT Will Wolford with a 1st round pick, and obtained Kent Hull from the folded USFL.

 

In 1995 Polian took over an expansion Carolina Panthers team and in two short years had them in the playoffs 7-9 the first year, and 12-4 the second year! A playoff team from scratch in two years, wow! To give that astonishing feat some perspective the Houston Texans became an expansion team in 2002, and finally made the playoffs in 2011.

 

In 1998 Polian was hired by the Colts after a 3-13 season, and with Manning as a rookie he had another 3-13 season, and the very next year the Colts went 13-3. This time two short years again.

 

My entire point is, it isn't just about finding that elite franchise QB because even if you beat the odds, and get lucky enough to find a future HoF QB in the draft. What makes you think that's the only piece needed to build a playoff team. What makes you think he will survive long enough to take the team to the playoffs.

 

First you need a great GM who is also good talent evaluation at all levels like Polian was. Then find good coaches, good players at all positions, QB, RB, WR, O line, and on defense to build a playoff team. Bill Polian proved it on three different teams that you don't need more then three years to build a playoff team.

 

 

Sadly, it looks like the Bills still need to find that guy at the top who can evaluate the draft through both sides of the ball, and then hire the right head coach. I'm really hoping this off season the Pegula's hire that football czar that they talked about last off season or find a Polian clone who can find that elusive franchise QB, and then quickly build a playoff team around him.

[ALF]

I agree with Nihilarian

 

The Bills need better scouting to ID good players

 

I would want a solid OL so a new QB has a chance to develop

[Bill from NYC]

QB. See Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Luck (before this year), Newton working with crap and/or patchwork OLs and still making it work.

 

Dallas supposedly has best OL in league yet can't win a game without Romo.

For many years I did not agree with the above. I would point out to people that the Colts drafted Tarik Glenn and Adam Meadows before they drafted Payton. I would also tell people just how good playing on (imo) the best or 2nd best OL off all time made Kenny Stabler. Those days are over.

 

The QB position is now at least 50% of the game, probably more. The rule changes caused this and it will only get worse.

 

If I was a GM I would draft a qb early every single season. If somehow I wound up with 2 very good ones, imagine the trade value! Even poor to marginal qbs have some value. Two football teams actually traded for Matt Cassell. I am guessing that the Bills could even convince some team into giving us a 7th round pick for EJ Manuel.

 

I do like this conversation, but rest assured it does not apply to the Bills. Guys like us will watch college games, you tube, etc. in an attempt to find good qbs and good blockers. Then, the Bills will probably draft a defensive back in round 1, and might even trade up to do so.

[thebandit27]

For many years I did not agree with the above. I would point out to people that the Colts drafted Tarik Glenn and Adam Meadows before they drafted Payton. I would also tell people just how good playing on (imo) the best or 2nd best OL off all time made Kenny Stabler. Those days are over.

 

The QB position is now at least 50% of the game, probably more. The rule changes caused this and it will only get worse.

 

If I was a GM I would draft a qb early every single season. If somehow I wound up with 2 very good ones, imagine the trade value! Even poor to marginal qbs have some value. Two football teams actually traded for Matt Cassell. I am guessing that the Bills could even convince some team into giving us a 7th round pick for EJ Manuel.

 

I do like this conversation, but rest assured it does not apply to the Bills. Guys like us will watch college games, you tube, etc. in an attempt to find good qbs and good blockers. Then, the Bills will probably draft a defensive back in round 1, and might even trade up to do so.

First and foremost: a fine (and healthy) holiday season to you and yours.

 

I know you're still a bit raw from the Levy years, but remember that since Whaley took over in 2014, they've spent their 2nd pick in each draft on the OL, and i don't expect that trend to change.

 

In fact, there's only one position that's been spectacularly ignored in the draft over and over again: QB.

[earthtobrint]

There is no debate between qb and oline.

 

Rb or oline there is a debate and I'd take a quality oline over a quality rb every day.