Azalin Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 1) Taken a stand with Cruz? Please!!!! He did it for himself and his brand and for no other reason than that. Everyone knew it was destined to fail everyone except for the right wing media hucksters who were helping push this narrative so that they could fool a bunch of gullible listeners and viewers. 2) You wanted them to take a more aggressive stand against Immigration? I won't even argue the merits of the law, but the last I recall the house didn't even take it up. Case closed, they shut it down. 3) Like what? specifics 4) Obama's agenda? You mean like gun control? Ever since the Obama administration has lost the House and Senate, name me one piece of significant legislation that he has been able to pass? 5) And I believe that Republicans aren't "moderate" enough. So I guess we are in a stalemate. Because its not founded on reality. You can disagree all you want, it doesn't matter to me. If you think that Trump is responsible for his own ascendancy to the party's nomination, that's your prerogative. I will continue to view it as being the Republicans' fault. With regard to Cruz, of course he stood against the ACA for his own benefit. He's a politician. With respect to national level politics, perception among the voting public is everything. You don't inspire people with moderation.
IDBillzFan Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 So let's recap, GOP is getting hammered for not holding the line on Obama's budget. Yet the biggest spending lines in the US budget are - entitlements, military & infrastructure - all three things that Trump promises will see an increase in spending. This is really the problem with the Trump Davidians. They don't understand -- or at least refuse to accept -- what he would genuinely do as President. They just want a scalp. Any scalp. They can't hear him talk about infrastructure spending (like Obama and Hillary), the love of the individual health care mandate (like Obama and Hillary), the love of Planned Parenthood (like Obama and Hillary), and that doesn't even begin to talk about his "friendship" with Putin under what is an otherwise incoherent foreign policy past some Miss South Carolina-like blabber about how as if, we must, and therefore destroy ISIS. They want a scalp, consequences be damned. In fact, they want a scalp so badly, they're turning on the very people they need to help get a scalp that will have any value. I'm watching the Breitbarts and Drudges and Coulters and Hannitys etc. just ravage through anyone who dare challenge them...and unfortunately for them, the people they're ravaging are conservatives who genuinely aren't falling for the con. Best opportunity in years...and they pissed all over it.
Tiberius Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 He hasn't needed Congress to pass any legislation. He just does it. Congress should be screaming like hell and causing an uproar with each executive order that usurps their authority. Still waiting dumb ass. What specific actions by the prez should they be screaming (louder) about? Best opportunity in years...and they pissed all over it. Best opportunity? I'll disagree there. Republicans would have a pretty hard job winning no matter who the nominate. The demographics of the country are changing so much that in presidential races they have a real up hill battle. Dems have won more popular votes in 5 out of last 6 elections. GOP has to open itself up more to the new demographic trends
3rdnlng Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Still waiting dumb ass. What specific actions by the prez should they be screaming (louder) about? Best opportunity? I'll disagree there. Republicans would have a pretty hard job winning no matter who the nominate. The demographics of the country are changing so much that in presidential races they have a real up hill battle. Dems have won more popular votes in 5 out of last 6 elections. GOP has to open itself up more to the new demographic trends Read my prior posts and then just go away.
Tiberius Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Read my prior posts and then just go away. You really didn't give any specifics d-bag. You Trumpsters are pretty stupid
Chef Jim Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 You really didn't give any specifics d-bag. You Trumpsters are pretty stupid And your childish posts are getting really, really old.
Tiberius Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 And many of the trashy Trumpsters that are crying about how awful the recovery is want to do this hatchet job to the economy. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/278818-study-trumps-deportation-plans-would-cost-country Not that they give a flying fok about the economy
birdog1960 Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 This is really the problem with the Trump Davidians. They don't understand -- or at least refuse to accept -- what he would genuinely do as President. They just want a scalp. Any scalp. They can't hear him talk about infrastructure spending (like Obama and Hillary), the love of the individual health care mandate (like Obama and Hillary), the love of Planned Parenthood (like Obama and Hillary), and that doesn't even begin to talk about his "friendship" with Putin under what is an otherwise incoherent foreign policy past some Miss South Carolina-like blabber about how as if, we must, and therefore destroy ISIS. They want a scalp, consequences be damned. In fact, they want a scalp so badly, they're turning on the very people they need to help get a scalp that will have any value. I'm watching the Breitbarts and Drudges and Coulters and Hannitys etc. just ravage through anyone who dare challenge them...and unfortunately for them, the people they're ravaging are conservatives who genuinely aren't falling for the con. Best opportunity in years...and they pissed all over it. we finally agree. these asshats have played on and inspired anger and unrest in this impressionable, gullible demographic for years. and now it's come home to roost. and the mainstream repubs have enabled it. just rewards indeed.
....lybob Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) And many of the trashy Trumpsters that are crying about how awful the recovery is want to do this hatchet job to the economy. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/278818-study-trumps-deportation-plans-would-cost-country Not that they give a flying fok about the economy On the other hand in the scramble for labor that would ensue, pushes for a 15 dollar minimum wage might seem regressive. Oh and if you are a renter, happy days, two million spaces fighting for tenants. Edited May 5, 2016 by ....lybob
Deranged Rhino Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 So what could the "establishment" have done differently over the past eight years to have saved us from this "lesson"? The mistake a lot of people are making is assuming the "establishment" is party based. It's not. The establishment is found in corporate America, who play both sides of the political spectrum and bought the government out years ago. The establishment owns the politicians and the three branches of government, they aren't politicians themselves. The establishment is also completely unthreatened by either a Trump presidency or Hillary presidency -- both will carry the torch for the establishment. So let's recap, GOP is getting hammered for not holding the line on Obama's budget. No, the implosion of the GOP started when they opted not to hold the line on W's spending. It cost them all their political capital during Obama's 8 years because they were easily painted as being partisan hypocrites after doing nothing while Bush ran two wars on a credit card. You really didn't give any specifics d-bag. You Trumpsters are pretty stupid Yeah, and you're an asshat of giant proportions who keeps on doubling down on his lies even after being proven to be a liar. No one takes you seriously. You offer nothing of substance to this board (not even entertainment anymore). You're a parasite... and did I mention...
Magox Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 You can disagree all you want, it doesn't matter to me. If you think that Trump is responsible for his own ascendancy to the party's nomination, that's your prerogative. I will continue to view it as being the Republicans' fault. With regard to Cruz, of course he stood against the ACA for his own benefit. He's a politician. With respect to national level politics, perception among the voting public is everything. You don't inspire people with moderation. Trump is a vehicle for the dissatisfaction of the country. He appeals to white working class folks, and his ascendancy isn't because of the "establishment", it's because people believe that many middle class paying jobs are no longer available to them, they blame trade, they blame immigrants and they blame politicians for promising them that they could fix these issues when in reality there were no fixes. Globalism was going to happen no matter what, people can either adapt to that reality or just sit back B word and complain about it. It's not about "moderation", it's about accepting the reality that this country is made up of right wingers, right leaners, middle moderate, left leaners and left wingers. A government in my view should represent the wishes of the people (as long as it falls under the constitution), not some sub sect of the population. If you want to preserve your views of government in the country, then you are going to have to be a little smarter about it. That means that: A) You aren't going to have to accept that we aren't going to have a government that has nearly everything you want B) Choose your battles wisely C) Realize that this is a diverse country and in order to preserve or enact the sort of government you desire you need to WIN elections. You may not be a Trump supporter, but you justify his ascendancy. This mentality that they are "teaching a lesson" to the "establishment" (whoever they are) is backwards thinking. They aren't teaching anyone a lesson, all that they are doing is helping elect another progressive who is going to do things that they hate for the next 4-8 years. Best opportunity? I'll disagree there. Republicans would have a pretty hard job winning no matter who the nominate. The demographics of the country are changing so much that in presidential races they have a real up hill battle. Dems have won more popular votes in 5 out of last 6 elections. GOP has to open itself up more to the new demographic trends You are fooling yourself, she is more unpopular than any Democratic nominee since Carter plus she was running on Obama's third term, which is very difficult to achieve in itself. There were 2-3 candidates who could have beat her and they weren't nominated. In fact, they want a scalp so badly, they're turning on the very people they need to help get a scalp that will have any value. I'm watching the Breitbarts and Drudges and Coulters and Hannitys etc. just ravage through anyone who dare challenge them...and unfortunately for them, the people they're ravaging are conservatives who genuinely aren't falling for the con. The Conservative media hucksters. You can add Rush, Ingraham and Levin to that group as well. They all are conning their listeners for $$$. It's never been about Conservatism, but more so about a blood sport battle with progressives and clicks. No, the implosion of the GOP started when they opted not to hold the line on W's spending. It cost them all their political capital during Obama's 8 years because they were easily painted as being partisan hypocrites after doing nothing while Bush ran two wars on a credit card. That and the trade deals and his immigration push. Lets face it, there are a lot of white working class people that resent immigrants. Not just illegal immigrants but legal ones as well. I don't care what anyone on this board says, that is a damn fact!
Tiberius Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 You are fooling yourself, she is more unpopular than any Democratic nominee since Carter plus she was running on Obama's third term, which is very difficult to achieve in itself. There were 2-3 candidates who could have beat her and they weren't nominated. I'll give you that. No one really loves Hillary
Azalin Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 You may not be a Trump supporter, but you justify his ascendancy. This mentality that they are "teaching a lesson" to the "establishment" (whoever they are) is backwards thinking. They aren't teaching anyone a lesson, all that they are doing is helping elect another progressive who is going to do things that they hate for the next 4-8 years. I'm not attempting to justify anything. I'm only saying that there are reasons why so many republican/libertarian-minded people are dissatisfied with the Republican party, and that they've done a poor job in turning that perception around. Now we have this.
birdog1960 Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 I'm not attempting to justify anything. I'm only saying that there are reasons why so many republican/libertarian-minded people are dissatisfied with the Republican party, and that they've done a poor job in turning that perception around. Now we have this. the answer is to break off the crazies into their own party. there are many dems that would consider rejoining the republican party of Rockefeller.
LeviF Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 "Conservative" principles were sold out a long time ago, it wasn't in the last 7.5 years. It wasn't in the last 15.5 years, even. It began a long time ago and pretending that the Republican party had some sort of grand opportunity this year to get that back is plain stupid and only serves to promote the status quo.
3rdnlng Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 I'm not attempting to justify anything. I'm only saying that there are reasons why so many republican/libertarian-minded people are dissatisfied with the Republican party, and that they've done a poor job in turning that perception around. Now we have this. It's hard to get through to these guys. They seem to think that if one is capable of explaining the Trump Phenomenon that means that person is a "Trumpster". Some of what Trumps says resonates with me. I like the fact that he isn't politically correct. I think he will surround himself with good people. He also scares the hell out of me, but not as much as that Wicked Witch.
IDBillzFan Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Donald Trump Position Flip Flop Checklist 2016 Minimum Wage - Check Self-Fund Campaign - Check Tax Plan - Check Build A Wall Destroy Isis Repeal Obamacare Unite Country Pressed by CNBC on Thursday as to how he could simultaneously brand himself as a populist who will take on wealthy elites while proposing sweeping tax cuts for billionaires, Trump backed away from his plan. "I am not necessarily a huge fan of that,” he said. “I am so much more into the middle class who have just been absolutely forgotten in our country.” Trump described his tax proposal, which was the most detailed policy paper he put out in the campaign, as merely a starting point for a future deal. “You know, when you put out a tax plan, you are going to start negotiating,” he said. “You don’t say, ‘OK, this is our tax plan, lots of luck, folks.’ There will be negotiation back and forth. And I can see that going up, to be honest with you.” Trump’s abrupt dismissal of his own tax plan, which he regularly cited on the campaign trail, came a day after he signaled a willingness to raise the federal minimum wage, which would be a major reversal from his stance in the primaries.
1billsfan Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) "Conservative" principles were sold out a long time ago, it wasn't in the last 7.5 years. It wasn't in the last 15.5 years, even. It began a long time ago and pretending that the Republican party had some sort of grand opportunity this year to get that back is plain stupid and only serves to promote the status quo. I think many people just aren't getting what’s happening. They are stuck in the structures of the old political systems and campaigns. This is truly the first modern 21st century presidential election. The norms of the past are out the door big time. Words like “conservative” and “liberal” have become antiques in modern US politics. IMO there’s no longer such a thing as a “conservative” or a “liberal” politician because they're all owned by people and corporations who don’t really care about principles. Trump has pulled the curtain up on “The Great Oz” of the DC elites to show they are nothing but weak empty suits desperately pulling levers to stay in power. He did this by using the power of his celebrity status, the power of the media and the power of instant messaging to the masses via twitter. Most voters today care about one thing. Are you going to go to Washington and have MY back or have someone else’s back. Trump has hammered home the message that he will have the voter’s back. It’s perfectly understandable for people to laugh and make fun about how serious he's being. But he’s never held an office. He's from outside the DC club. He has that clean slate the others don’t. I used to be caught up in all the political debate, but I found that I’m happier if I refrain from all of the animosity that these discussions tend to bring out. No matter who wins the presidency, that person will be neither a hero nor a villain. They are almost always somewhere in between. Edited May 5, 2016 by 1billsfan
Azalin Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 It's hard to get through to these guys. They seem to think that if one is capable of explaining the Trump Phenomenon that means that person is a "Trumpster". Some of what Trumps says resonates with me. I like the fact that he isn't politically correct. I think he will surround himself with good people. He also scares the hell out of me, but not as much as that Wicked Witch. That pretty much sums up my view as well.
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 That pretty much sums up my view as well. X3 me too I'm pissed at the establishments (both sides) because they don't represent regular American citizens or interests. They don't care. Period. They are only beholden to their special interests, increasing their power and furthering their careers. I will gladly vote for trump because; A, it's not Hillary Clinton B, I hope he damages both the Republican and Democrat establishments and forces them to be more responsive to the American people.
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