Chef Jim Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 Obviously you don't want the patronage jobs included because it totally undermines your argument. But Irish got those jobs and blacks did not. If you think historical facts make my argument look bad that says more about you than me. As I showed with the 1944 strike whites fought tooth and nail to keep blacks out of jobs. Tammany was just one example of many. Trying to argue the Irish had it as bad as blacks in America is foolish How is this still making it difficult for blacks to succeed today 70 plus years later? I noticed you didn't answer my question to that up-thread.
Tiberius Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 It all comes back to the nuclear family. Liberals stole those things from them in the guise of trying to help them. Stop advocating policy which destroys the black family, and they'll slowly regain their footing and make progress. They're no worse or less talented, as a demographic, than the Irish, Italians, Jews, etc. They'll make their way, and ultimately they'll assimilate to hold more traditional American values again, as they used to, before liberalism sabotaged them. This is wrong. Are you arguing that welfare destroyed black families? Is that your argument in a society that sees 50% of marriages end in divorce and 40% of all children born out of wedlock. Of course the poor have statistics that are worse than those that have resources. And were not these things on the rise even before the Great Society? How is this still making it difficult for blacks to succeed today 70 plus years later? I noticed you didn't answer my question to that up-thread. Back when you could--if you were white--leave high school and just get a factory job? Its a different economy now and families with hard work ethics and pride in work could pass that on to children. A guy that didn't have a good job couldn't pass those traits down as easy if he was not employed. We are still living with consequences of the racism of the past. Culture don't change overnight
Chef Jim Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 Back when you could--if you were white--leave high school and just get a factory job? Its a different economy now and families with hard work ethics and pride in work could pass that on to children. A guy that didn't have a good job couldn't pass those traits down as easy if he was not employed. We are still living with consequences of the racism of the past. Culture don't change overnight So you 're saying three plus generations can't change that? So why, in your mind, do blacks have a poor work ethic? I don't think one has have a "good" job to pass on a strong work ethic. Some of the Hispanic dishwashers I worked with had the best work ethic and passed this on to their children. Once again why have blacks not been able to do this? They seem to be one of the few cultures lagging in this. Once again...why?
GG Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 This is wrong. Are you arguing that welfare destroyed black families? Is that your argument in a society that sees 50% of marriages end in divorce and 40% of all children born out of wedlock. Of course the poor have statistics that are worse than those that have resources. And were not these things on the rise even before the Great Society? Read the Moynihan report, which for 1965, was extremely harsh and in hindsight totally correct. Why do liberals ignore the warnings from one of their past luminaries?
keepthefaith Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 Back when you could--if you were white--leave high school and just get a factory job? Its a different economy now and families with hard work ethics and pride in work could pass that on to children. A guy that didn't have a good job couldn't pass those traits down as easy if he was not employed. We are still living with consequences of the racism of the past. Culture don't change overnight You are correct, culture change is slow and will move in the direction of long term behavior. If we take race out of the equation and simply measure education, effort, family structure and behavior - we will find a strong correlation between outcomes and those factors. People of all colors usually fail when they underperform in those areas.
B-Man Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 And no.............I still don't support Trump. Just laughing at the lib/media hysteria. Trump is a monster, a madman and a vile racist. He's just like Hitler. Or Jimmy Carter. During the Iranian hostage crisis, Carter issued a number of orders to put pressure on Iran. Among these, Iranians were banned from entering the United States unless they oppose the Shiite Islamist regime or had a medical emergency. Here's Jimmy "Hitler" Carter saying it back in 1980. Fourth, the Secretary of Treasury [state] and the Attorney General will invalidate all visas issued to Iranian citizens for future entry into the United States, effective today. We will not reissue visas, nor will we issue new visas, except for compelling and proven humanitarian reasons or where the national interest of our own country requires. This directive will be interpreted very strictly. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=33233 Apparently barring people from a terrorist country is not against "our values" after all. It may even be "who we are". Meanwhile here's how the Iranian students in the US were treated. Carter orders 50,000 Iranian students in US to report to immigration office with view to deporting those in violation of their visas. On 27 December 1979, US appeals court allows deportation of Iranian students found in violation. Not exactly the same circumstances, but it puts those laughable "madman" quotes into perspective. .
keepthefaith Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 The US government considers middle eastern folks as whites in the census. So Trump is being unfair to members of the white race?
IDBillzFan Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 there isn't snowballs chance in hell of finding middle ground with folks like you comprising the republican party. it's almost to the point to where the historical image of the party will need to be reborn under another name. the inmates are running the asylum. Says the guy who elects a man who tells the GOP they lost and to get on the back of the bus. The party that equates the GOP with terrorists. The party that thinks our next president should be a socialist. Yeah...the GOP is the problem. Face it, divisiveness in America has gotten predictably worse the minute you elected a man president who is more interested in raising money and playing golf than he ever was interested in helping the lower and middle class better their lives. For someone who thinks you're smart, you really ain't that smart.
Ozymandius Posted December 8, 2015 Posted December 8, 2015 https://app.bingpulse.com/msnbcdayside/daypulse lol, stupid progressive whites
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Okay... I will play... How can you ban a religion? Sure you can ban people from a set country like Iran... But a religion? Mr. Immigration Man: "So you are coming from Egypt? What religion are you? Jihadi Joe: "I'm Coptic Christian of course." Mr. Immigration Man: "Okay, you can enter... Just as long as you are sure you are not Muslim." WTF... Does Allah issue ID cards?
Dorkington Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 https://app.bingpulse.com/msnbcdayside/daypulse lol, stupid progressive whites Holy ****, that's depressing. I really hope it's because people got mixed up with the wording of the question :|
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Okay... I will play... How can you ban a religion? Sure you can ban people from a set country like Iran... But a religion? Mr. Immigration Man: "So you are coming from Egypt? What religion are you? Jihadi Joe: "I'm Coptic Christian of course." Mr. Immigration Man: "Okay, you can enter... Just as long as you are sure you are not Muslim." WTF... Does Allah issue ID cards? I've seen surveys were a significant portion of AMERICAN Muslims would prefer some form of sharia law to our Constitution. Importing additional people who already believe in, practice or sympathize with sharia is totally incompatible with our American way of life and system of values. When does Islam become a political movement and a religion at the same time? What is the distinction? How do we know the difference? I am all for allowing people to practice their religion. However I am 100% Not ok with ANY form of religion over ruling our constitution or laws. Other religions may have some political sway with their congregations lobbying for or voting a specific way but all within the framework of our laws. Sharia law is Islam. There is no distinction. It is a political movement and should not be able to be claimed as being protected as part of a religion. It is incompatible with our laws. There is no compromise. How do you make peace with that? Edited December 9, 2015 by drinkTHEkoolaid
keepthefaith Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Okay... I will play... How can you ban a religion? Sure you can ban people from a set country like Iran... But a religion? Mr. Immigration Man: "So you are coming from Egypt? What religion are you? Jihadi Joe: "I'm Coptic Christian of course." Mr. Immigration Man: "Okay, you can enter... Just as long as you are sure you are not Muslim." WTF... Does Allah issue ID cards? We owe those here illegally and those that want to come here absolutely nothing. Zero, zip, zilch. Now, if we are going to have an immigration program, we have it on our terms. For me that means it has to pass the tests of being secure, fair to our existing citizens, to the benefit our our nation and good for those that come in. What we have now is failing on all 4 IMO.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Of course... BUT how on earth are we to determine what religion people are? Say Trump gets his way... How does it get implemented? "Are you Muslim?" "Yes." "Sorry, you can't come in." What do you think the next guy standing in line will say? Anybody who believes this policy will work is a total idiot. No copywrite violation, I said: TOTAL idiot. Now if Trump said: "Ban all people from Muslim countries..." That could actually play out. Jimah did it w/Iran back in the day. I mentioned Christians from Egypt... Sorry they can't come in either. Can anybody actually answer how Trump's policy would actually work in an everyday immigration situation? I am sorry... I out The Donald... You're a total idiot pandering to total idiots... Edited December 9, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois
keepthefaith Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Of course... BUT how on earth are we to determine what religion people are? Say Trump gets his way... How does it get implemented? "Are you Muslim?" "Yes." "Sorry, you can't come in." What do you think the next guy standing in line will say? Anybody who believes this policy will work is a total idiot. No copywrite violation, I said: TOTAL idiot. Now if Trump said: "Ban all people from Muslim countries..." That could actually play out. Jimah did it w/Iran back in the day. I mentioned Christians from Egypt... Sorry they can't come in either. Can anybody actually answer how Trump's policy would actually work in an everyday immigration situation? I am sorry... I out The Donald... You're a total idiot pandering to total idiots... We need to go to near zero immigration, fix the shortcomings and resume once things are fixed. That's what I would do. Run it the way a good business would run it. ****, if Obama and Jeh Jeh showed up at a meeting in a real company and reported over and over to their superiors anything that resembles our immigration system they would be escorted to the parking lot. Edited December 9, 2015 by keepthefaith
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 We need to go to near zero immigration, fix the shortcomings and resume once things are fixed. That's what I would do. Run it the way a good business would run it. ****, if Obama and Jeh Jeh showed up at a meeting in a real company and reported over and over to their superiors anything that resembles our immigration system they would be escorted to the parking lot. Gov't is not a business... That's where a lot of elected officials get into ethical problems thinking they can run gov't like a business. Business you can do whatever you want as long as the law doesn't prohibit it. Gov't you can only do what the law says. See the difference?
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Gee... Mighty swell of him: "Although Trump’s aides had initially said no one would be exempt from the “total” ban, the candidate began listing exceptions he would make. U.S. citizens who are Muslim and traveling abroad would be allowed to reenter, along with Muslim members of the U.S. military returning from tours overseas. Muslim leaders of foreign countries would also be allowed in, and exceptions would be made for athletes visiting the United States for competitions." Have your Allah ID Card ready...
Justice Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 I've seen surveys were a significant portion of AMERICAN Muslims would prefer some form of sharia law to our Constitution. Importing additional people who already believe in, practice or sympathize with sharia is totally incompatible with our American way of life and system of values. When does Islam become a political movement and a religion at the same time? What is the distinction? How do we know the difference? I am all for allowing people to practice their religion. However I am 100% Not ok with ANY form of religion over ruling our constitution or laws. Other religions may have some political sway with their congregations lobbying for or voting a specific way but all within the framework of our laws. Sharia law is Islam. There is no distinction. It is a political movement and should not be able to be claimed as being protected as part of a religion. It is incompatible with our laws. There is no compromise. How do you make peace with that? Even if that were true, how in the world can that ever happen here? Muslims make up about 1% of the population, right? It doesn't seem plausible at all and you shouldn't waste your time worrying about it.
keepthefaith Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Gov't is not a business... That's where a lot of elected officials get into ethical problems thinking they can run gov't like a business. Business you can do whatever you want as long as the law doesn't prohibit it. Gov't you can only do what the law says. See the difference? Yes, and the law does not say we can't temporarily reduce immigration and it certainly does not say that we have to let **** that runs like **** continue to run like ****. There is also a process for changing the law, so no I don't accept that things have to stay so !@#$ed up and immigration is really !@#$ed up.
truth on hold Posted December 9, 2015 Posted December 9, 2015 Yes, and the law does not say we can't temporarily reduce immigration and it certainly does not say that we have to let **** that runs like **** continue to run like ****. There is also a process for changing the law, so no I don't accept that things have to stay so !@#$ed up and immigration is really !@#$ed up. Donald Trumps Plan to Bar Foreign Muslims Might Survive a Lawsuit Under a provision of immigration law, Congress has already delegated to the president broad power to issue a proclamation indefinitely blocking the entry of any class of aliens into the United States that he or she thinks would be detrimental to the interests of the United States. No president has ever used that power in such a sweeping way, but the text provides a potential statutory basis for a President Trump to carry out his plan, specialists said. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/us/politics/donald-trumps-plan-to-bar-foreign-muslims-might-survive-a-lawsuit.html?referer=https://news.google.com/
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