Blood is on the NRA's hands

[GG]

 

DC Tom is attempting to say that the amount of shootings this year are not a problem because he disagrees with "mass" and "normal." I'm saying, here is a well-compiled list of shootings from this year. Can we agree that this is a problem with available solutions that would prevent these? Can we agree that it is possible and you are just stubbornly refusing to try to do anything besides name-call on your favorite Internet forum?

 

It seems like DC Tom and those that agree with him would rather see gun violence continue unabated than ever consider they may be wrong. It's more important they feel right than to be right.

 

I don't recall him saying that the number of shootings is not a problem. I recall him saying that the numbers are fairly static and need to be looked at in the proper context and not sensationalized.

 

If there's a truly troubling pattern on the data that you linked, it's the huge number of "Unkown" alleged shooters. Why not focus attention on that?

[DC Tom]

 

Again, so we agree. But again, you ignore the point and keep your focus elsewhere to deflect. You're doing what graceless people do when they lose arguments. You have no point and no argument. Your argument is semantics, name-calling, and dodging the point. You'd fit in well with Republican Congress. You have less than nothing but you spew it with vitriol nonetheless.

 

No, we don't agree. You're a liar, and ignorant, and a propagandist, and you just want something to be outraged about. If it wasn't this, it'd be something else.

 

And I'm not losing an argument, because WE'RE NOT HAVING AN ARGUMENT. You're just looking for validation for your outrage. That's all you want. If you were looking for discussion, you wouldn't have called out everyone who might disagree with you in the first paragraph in your first post in the thread.

 

So stop whining about other people not discussing things with you. You came here with the pointed and explicit intent of looking for "likes." But this isn't Facebook, you idiot.

[FireChan]

 

I addressed most of the counter-arguments in my original post. Look there first, then go ahead and bring me another argument if you want to argue that we should not try to improve gun control.

Your counter arguments are all stupid.

 

And you still have no solution. Not even a stupid one.

[Dante]

Concerning those that are blaming ISIS ....... if I worked somewhere for 5 years, and then shot it up and killed other employees, would you blame the mafia, as I am Italian American?

How much you wanna bet when they get on the pc's of these barbarians they were at the very least ISIS sympathizers. Not sure what is required to be a card carrying members of that group. Maybe some initiation like stoning some chick that wore to much make up or raping some 5 year old boy. Or the seemingly very popular pass time of gay tossing off of rooftops. Who knows.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Dante

[B-Man]

This cannot be said enough. It’s sheer self-indulgence to pretend those who disagree with you on the law don’t care.

 

 

People haven't decided "mass shootings are acceptable". They've decided gun control won't stop them. There's a difference.

 

 

 

.

[Ozymandius]

[LA Grant]

 

No, we don't agree. You're a liar, and ignorant, and a propagandist, and you just want something to be outraged about. If it wasn't this, it'd be something else.

 

And I'm not losing an argument, because WE'RE NOT HAVING AN ARGUMENT. You're just looking for validation for your outrage. That's all you want. If you were looking for discussion, you wouldn't have called out everyone who might disagree with you in the first paragraph in your first post in the thread.

 

So stop whining about other people not discussing things with you. You came here with the pointed and explicit intent of looking for "likes." But this isn't Facebook, you idiot.

 

You're wrong about every single point here yet you put it forth with such bluster. You're a mudslinger with nothing more, no intellectual curiosity to honestly debate a worthy issue (I put "worthy" in here because it's subjective and I know you'd love to argue with me about it!) You have the same capacity for social/political dialogue as a dog. All bark and no bite, too. Well that's vintage DC Tom for you. Never change, DC Tom.

This cannot be said enough. It’s sheer self-indulgence to pretend those who disagree with you on the law don’t care.

 

 

People haven't decided "mass shootings are acceptable". They've decided gun control won't stop them. There's a difference.

 

 

 

.

 

That is a dumb decision to arrive to considering gun control has never been seriously attempted in America. It's sheer self-indulgence to assume you know the outcome to something that's never been attempted.

[FireChan]

How do we "improve" gun control, LA? As an aside, what is your position on marijuana legalization?

[Chef Jim]

 

You're wrong about every single point here yet you put it forth with such bluster. You're a mudslinger with nothing more, no intellectual curiosity to honestly debate a worthy issue (I put "worthy" in here because it's subjective and I know you'd love to argue with me about it!) You have the same capacity for social/political dialogue as a dog. All bark and no bite, too. Well that's vintage DC Tom for you. Never change, DC Tom.

 

That is a dumb decision to arrive to considering gun control has never been seriously attempted in America. It's sheer self-indulgence to assume you know the outcome to something that's never been attempted.

 

What is gun control to you? Bullet points would be nice. Aaaaaaaaaaaand GO!

[Ozymandius]

 

You're wrong about every single point here yet you put it forth with such bluster. You're a mudslinger with nothing more, no intellectual curiosity to honestly debate a worthy issue (I put "worthy" in here because it's subjective and I know you'd love to argue with me about it!) You have the same capacity for social/political dialogue as a dog. All bark and no bite, too. Well that's vintage DC Tom for you. Never change, DC Tom.

 

That is a dumb decision to arrive to considering gun control has never been seriously attempted in America. It's sheer self-indulgence to assume you know the outcome to something that's never been attempted.

 

We've never attempted deporting people back to Africa, either.

 

Of the two solutions, mine actually has a chance of lowering gun violence rates in this country.

[B-Man]

 

 

That is a dumb decision to arrive to considering gun control has never been seriously attempted in America.

 

It's sheer self-indulgence to assume you know the outcome to something that's never been attempted.

 

 

And there you have it.

 

 

There is simply no need to engage in any more discussion with you.

 

anyone who makes such a blatantly stupid statement does not warrant any respect.

 

 

 

.

[B-Large]

Another day, another mass shooting. What will it take for this country to recognize it has a gun problem? It's going to take people who hate admitting they're wrong to admit they may be wrong about gun control.

 

Obviously I never post in this subforum, I've checked enough times to know it's little more than an echo chamber for conservative talk radio points. DC Tom, LABillzFan, and the other thought leaders here slap each other on the back and never have to consider they may be wrong. Well, conservatives do an admirable job of stubbornly ignoring reality. I'll grant you that in general I think people only preach to the choir so I'm going to go against the grain and try to communicate to NRA sympathizers here.

 

That's why I'm going to be blunt and straight to the point. If this post gets taken down or banned because I'm clearly posting when I'm angry, so be it.

 

If you're an NRA supporter: these shootings are on YOU. That's right, you are implicit. Your actions are partly responsible for these tragedies. Your selfish, delusional, ignorant fantasies of being a cowboy hero have led to this current reality of America where mass shootings are becoming a daily occurrence. You are part of the problem that prevents gun legislation. And since there is no foreseeable opportunity for legislation and an end to the madness, at the very least, you should feel bad and consider changing your stupid views.

 

This year alone, there have been more mass shootings than days in the year. These are not "isolated incidents" like the NRA likes to pretend. You need to take a long look in the mirror and realize how badly your attitudes affect the rest of the country. It's absurd how easily accessible weapons are available to psychopaths. Who's to blame for that?

 

...

 

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Easily the dumbest defense. Guns kill people. None of these mass murders happen without the ease of guns.

 

"If we outlawed guns, criminals would find a way to get them anyway."

So instead let's make it easier for "them" to get them by having them widely available? How's that working out? The reality is, because gun manufacturers have made SO MANY of these portable death machines, OBVIOUSLY they will not go away overnight. But legislation is the first step; rooting them out is the second step. It's like saying that because withdrawals are bad, you should just keep doing heroin forever.

 

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Where are all the good guys with guns then? You guys have been asleep at the wheel if you're supposed to be the ones preventing these. Nevermind that this quip doesn't sync up with reality at all; the amount of times a shooter has been stopped by an armed civilian have been so few that it's little more than an anomaly. Stats show it's far more likely that having a gun in your home makes it more likely for a gun death to occur in the home than it being used in a "positive" way, but I'm sure Obama just made up those stats to scare you, though.

 

"It's a mental health issue."

Hey good point, social services should be expanded in this country. Unfortunately that would mean higher taxes! Well, we know which segment of the population will be blocking any efforts to improve this then. Even if we did somehow improve access to mental health — which won't happen — the first realization people would come to would be "oh well obviously we should get rid of guns, that's an easy one."

 

"The government fears armed citizens!"

So incredibly delusional. The government taps all your communication, engages in drone warfare on a regular basis, etc. etc., but they're afraid of your sidearm? Get over yourself.

 

"It's for protection!"

It's for your absurd fantasies. Protect you from what, home invasion? Sorry, that's not nearly good enough of a justification. Guns are overwhelmingly used to attack, not defend. And your possessions are meaningless. Nobody wants to steal your DVD-VCR combo.

 

"But the shooting today happened in California, which has stronger gun laws! See? Gun laws don't work!"

The laws are not strong enough anywhere. Waiting periods, background checks, written tests. It's not enough. We need to get there on a nation-wide level because gun sales are still through the roof at gun shows and still pass state borders mostly with impunity.

 

"Way to politicize a tragedy."

If we can't talk about this now, then when? When it happens to someone you know?

 

"But I like hunting!"

At least this one is honest. The reality is your hobby sucks. If your daddy got you into hunting and that's how you bonded, your daddy sucks. Hunt with a bow & arrow, or a knife, or even a musket if you want. Go ahead and keep the muskets.

 

...

 

If you're an NRA member and you read all this, you're probably pissed and looking to score points by somehow proving me wrong. Go ahead and shoot the messenger, I don't care. Call me whatever names you want, like that makes what I'm saying not true.

 

Maybe in time you'll consider that these tragedies are preventable and that we need to at least "TRY" reducing access to guns. That does not happen until the NRA has less power in our government. And that doesn't happen until their base starts to turn on them; until gun sales stop GOING UP whenever there's a mass shooting. That's why I'm reaching out.

 

The NRA needs to be recognized for what it is — an enabler of terrorism. We need to stop dancing around this hard truth just because we've been living the lie for so long. White male sociopaths with guns are terrorists, plain and simple.

 

If you're a gun owner, if you're one of the fools that buys into the NRA rhetoric so they can keep making money off of your delusional and fearful fantasies, the best way to send your "thoughts and prayers" to the victims of these shootings would be to take your gun and shoot yourself. Go ahead and do it today, even. At least then the blood on your hands can be your own.

 

Thought Leadership? Lol, just come out and say it, you think they're a couple of gays...

[DC Tom]

 

You're wrong about every single point here yet you put it forth with such bluster. You're a mudslinger with nothing more, no intellectual curiosity to honestly debate a worthy issue (I put "worthy" in here because it's subjective and I know you'd love to argue with me about it!) You have the same capacity for social/political dialogue as a dog. All bark and no bite, too. Well that's vintage DC Tom for you. Never change, DC Tom.

 

You're accusing me of not having intellectual curiosity? You put forth nothing but emotional outrage based on a dishonest use of a source you couldn't even be bothered to understand. I'm blustering...but you started this discussion by calling two people (including me) out personally?

 

I only have intellectual discussions with people who have intellect. You're not one of them.

 

 

And there you have it.

 

 

There is simply no need to engage in any more discussion with you.

 

anyone who makes such a blatantly stupid statement does not warrant any respect.

 

It amazes me sometimes that it takes the rest of you so long to figure this out.

[Chef Jim]

Oh and BTW I just want to point out the LA Grant referred to guns as:

 

Portable Death Machines.

 

Carry on.

[DC Tom]

Oh and BTW I just want to point out the LA Grant referred to guns as:

 

Portable Death Machines.

 

Carry on.

 

Well that's not sensationalist now, is it.

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

 

 

And there you have it.

 

 

There is simply no need to engage in any more discussion with you.

 

anyone who makes such a blatantly stupid statement does not warrant any respect.

 

 

 

.

What he really meant was we have never really considered confiscation.

[Nanker]

Wonder what the little tyke's take on Rachel Carson's culpability in the death of millions in the third world. She has blood on her hands. Then maybe we can move on to Jen McCarthy and polio.

[Chef Jim]

 

Well that's not sensationalist now, is it.

 

 

I wonder if they look like this?

 

[Tiberius]

 

Did you mean four people are injured?

 

A stupid question? Once again it was a question asking you to clarify an assertion YOU made. So........clarify. Where do you some up with the statement that no one owns guns in Europe?

Oh come on, you would be ok with us having the same gun laws as most European countries?

[Chef Jim]

Oh come on, you would be ok with us having the same gun laws as most European countries?

 

I don't know what the European gun laws are. I've heard though from someone (can't quite remember who) who said the gun laws are so strict in Europe NO ONE owns any guns. Is this true?