Chef Jim Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 We have enough stupid exchanges here. No need to import them from other sources.
Juror#8 Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) What I agreed with Juror's post the most is him stating that guns are not going anywhere. Especially guns held by those wishing to do us harm. And that is why I also own guns. I don't hunt either. I use them instead to protect my family from the hunters that are found in great numbers here in Oakland. There was a witness account on a neighborhood blog of an armed home invasion not far from us. The original owners of our home were victims of a home invasion. I will protect myself.Sorry to hear that there was a home invasion in your neighborhood. I'm just glad that you and yours are ok. My grandmother's home in North Carolina was broken into about 2 months ago when they were on vacation. My cousin was staying there while she was out of town and returned back there from work at 1 in the morning (she is a bartender) to electronics and jewelry missing. The neighbor said that they saw activity in the the home about 30 minutes before she got back and assumed it was her. That is scary to think about. And that's the simple point that anti-gun folks miss. "Yes" guns are dangerous and are used to attack and to hurt people. Unfortunately some people use them very irresponsibly. But they also serve a more frequent and regular function of protection and deterrence which, in my mind, outweighs the bad things for which they are [rightfully] implicated as the instrumentality causing harm. In order for someone to want to restrict access to guns and, in support of that effort, bring up statistics of mass shootings, etc., they have to similarly be willing to mitigate, or straight-forward deny, those benefits of protection and security that the average citizens enjoys through gun ownership. Unfortunately there are "hunters" (as you call them) who will gladly take advantage of the meek and unprepared if at all possible. And like you, I'm going to protect myself from those folks. Edited February 1, 2016 by Juror#8
Chef Jim Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Sorry to hear that there was a home invasion in your neighborhood. I'm just glad that you and yours are ok. My grandmother's home in North Carolina was broken into about 2 months ago when they were on vacation. My cousin was staying there while she was out of town and returned back there from work at 1 in the morning (she is a bartender) to electronics and jewelry missing. The neighbor said that they saw activity in the the home about 30 minutes before she got back and assumed it was her. That is scary to think about. And that's the simple point that anti-gun folks miss. "Yes" guns are dangerous and are used to attack and to hurt people. Unfortunately some people use them very irresponsibly. But they also serve a more frequent and regular function of protection and deterrence which, in my mind, outweighs the bad things for which they are [rightfully] implicated as the instrumentality causing harm. In order for someone to want to restrict access to guns and, in support of that effort, bring up statistics of mass shootings, etc., they have to similarly be willing to mitigate, or straight-forward deny, those benefits of protection and security that the average citizens enjoys through gun ownership. Unfortunately there are "hunters" (as you call them) who will gladly take advantage of the meek and unprepared if at all possible. And like you, I'm going to protect myself from those folks. Our home was broken in to a year after we bought it. It was during they day when we were gone as is usually the case. The empty trash bins were out front (unoccupied sign #1) and they likely rang the doorbell to no answer (unoccupied sign #2). They got a ton of my wife's jewelry, the laptop and a few other things. Since then we've gotten an alarm system, surveillance camera, safe, and the guns. We've taken a few gun courses including home invasion. The scary thing about home invasions is that they WILL be armed and it will be us against them. The course was helpful but you never know how you'll react under pressure. We've seen the value of our property skyrocket the past three years and we'll put in a few more and likely downsize and consider retirement.
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Our home was broken in to a year after we bought it. It was during they day when we were gone as is usually the case. The empty trash bins were out front (unoccupied sign #1) and they likely rang the doorbell to no answer (unoccupied sign #2). They got a ton of my wife's jewelry, the laptop and a few other things. Since then we've gotten an alarm system, surveillance camera, safe, and the guns. We've taken a few gun courses including home invasion. The scary thing about home invasions is that they WILL be armed and it will be us against them. The course was helpful but you never know how you'll react under pressure. We've seen the value of our property skyrocket the past three years and we'll put in a few more and likely downsize and consider retirement. The scary part of a home invasion is by the time you are awoken or realize what's going on, you might only have 5 to 30 seconds until it's "you vs them" in confrontation even if you are able to call 911 on a good day for most suburban areas response time can be 3-7 minutes forget it if you are in the country. You would also be lucky to only be up against 2 invaders with minimal resolve and training who would turn and run at first sign of resistance. A bad scenario is 4+ armed and motivated individuals on drugs intent on doing you harm.
Chef Jim Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 The scary part of a home invasion is by the time you are awoken or realize what's going on, you might only have 5 to 30 seconds until it's "you vs them" in confrontation even if you are able to call 911 on a good day for most suburban areas response time can be 3-7 minutes forget it if you are in the country. You would also be lucky to only be up against 2 invaders with minimal resolve and training who would turn and run at first sign of resistance. A bad scenario is 4+ armed and motivated individuals on drugs intent on doing you harm. Couple things we learned from the home invasion course. Number one heavy duty security locks on your bedroom door (which we've not yet done). Have a "safe room" in your home. High powered flashlight to blind them if and when they enter your room. You know the lay of your house they don't and you know where they are and they don't know where you are. Our plan would be to leave the flashlight on the bedside table shining towards the door and we would be in the opposite side of the bedroom. They would assume we are where the light is coming from. Scary to think we need to prepare for something like this but it's a fact of life sometimes. So you want to take away my guns? you!
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Couple things we learned from the home invasion course. Number one heavy duty security locks on your bedroom door (which we've not yet done). Have a "safe room" in your home. High powered flashlight to blind them if and when they enter your room. You know the lay of your house they don't and you know where they are and they don't know where you are. Our plan would be to leave the flashlight on the bedside table shining towards the door and we would be in the opposite side of the bedroom. They would assume we are where the light is coming from. Scary to think we need to prepare for something like this but it's a fact of life sometimes. So you want to take away my guns? you! Some other advice I have heard, on all your door hinge plates and latches replace the cheap crappy 1.5inch screws with beefy strong 4inch screws. That might buy a few extra kicks. And get reinforced brackets if available. I also have a bright tactical light on my shotgun. My problem is that my master bedroom is kinda in back corner upstairs while my kids bedrooms are closer to top of the stairs. So hunkering down in a bedroom isn't realistic for me. I would need to get to the top of stairs first and get between them and my kids.
Joe Miner Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 I'm going with the Home Alone defense. Paint cans, marbles, hot door handles, electrocution, icy steps, cardboard cutouts of Michael Jordan, etc...
Juror#8 Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 J#8 I don't always agree with your opinions and stances but your gun argument is full of logical sound reasoning. Glad to have more law abiding good guys with guns like yourself out there. Thanks bro. This is one I'm passionate about and I'm glad that others are too. It doesn't mean I'm not compassionate towards those who have lost loved ones through gun violence; I'm just more passionate about protecting my family. I need to make that shirt: "my passion for my protection doesn't mean a lack of compassion for your loss." Or something like that ...
Chef Jim Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Some other advice I have heard, on all your door hinge plates and latches replace the cheap crappy 1.5inch screws with beefy strong 4inch screws. That might buy a few extra kicks. And get reinforced brackets if available. I also have a bright tactical light on my shotgun. My problem is that my master bedroom is kinda in back corner upstairs while my kids bedrooms are closer to top of the stairs. So hunkering down in a bedroom isn't realistic for me. I would need to get to the top of stairs first and get between them and my kids. If this is actually something you're concerned about it's good you're all upstairs. If you have an alarm system and it's armed when you're home if someone kicks the door in the kids need to know what to do when the alarm goes off and where the "safe room" is and it's likely in your room. Kind of like a fire drill
Azalin Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) I know a few elderly folks who keep a gun in their room at night, but also keep a can of wasp spray on their nightstand. It shoots 30 or 40 feet in straight, easy to direct stream right into an intruder's face, temporarily immobilizing and disorienting them while you grab your gun. I've never spoken with anyone who's needed to use it though. Edited February 1, 2016 by Azalin
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 If this is actually something you're concerned about it's good you're all upstairs. If you have an alarm system and it's armed when you're home if someone kicks the door in the kids need to know what to do when the alarm goes off and where the "safe room" is and it's likely in your room. Kind of like a fire drill No alarm. One is a baby too so not very practical solution for me at this point. But still very good advice. I'm not very worried about it. I love in a quiet neighborhood of the buffalo southtowns. But like they say, you never know. Actually come to find out speaking with my neighbor one day, he mentioned the previous owner of my home was burglarized and wallet and jewelrey stolen about 7 or 8 years ago. Probably just kids looking for money but either way that's unsettling so ya.....
/dev/null Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 I know a few elderly folks who keep a gun in their room at night, but also keep a can of wasp spray on their nightstand. It shoots 30 or 40 feet in straight, easy to direct stream right into an intruder's face, temporarily immobilizing and disorienting them while you grab your gun. I've never spoken with anyone who's needed to use it though. Wasp spray Your micro-aggression offends me
Chef Jim Posted February 1, 2016 Posted February 1, 2016 Wasp spray Your micro-aggression offends me No kidding. Like that's going to work on anyone breaking in to their home. No alarm. One is a baby too so not very practical solution for me at this point. But still very good advice. I'm not very worried about it. I love in a quiet neighborhood of the buffalo southtowns. But like they say, you never know. Actually come to find out speaking with my neighbor one day, he mentioned the previous owner of my home was burglarized and wallet and jewelrey stolen about 7 or 8 years ago. Probably just kids looking for money but either way that's unsettling so ya..... We live in a pretty decent neighborhood above Oakland where homes are going for $800k-$1m. We're near a freeway entrance to it's easy getaway access. We were walking around the neighborhood one afternoon and my wife said "this place is like a shopping mall for the flatlanders."
Azalin Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 No kidding. Like that's going to work on anyone breaking in to their home. My initial reaction was the same, but I've heard law enforcement and victims' advocates recommending the same thing. edit: It only took a minute for me to debunk the wasp spray thing. It's nowhere near as effective as pepper spray, and can land you in serious legal hot water if you intentionally use it on a person since it's labeled as a poison. So - forget about using wasp spray.
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