Blood is on the NRA's hands

[sodbuster]

"You're an idiot" sounds about right for the OP.

 

couldn't be a more ignorant over simplistic view of the world.

 

Ya sure it wasn't ISIS to blame?

It was global wa- sorry, climate change.

[B-Man]

To be specific, you got suspended for usurping my meme. I call people idiots and morons. Get your own shtick.

 

Pretty bold talk Tom, for someone with "blood on their hands"

 

 

Here's an idea: What if the Left were as angry at Islamic terror as they are the NRA?

[sodbuster]

This is like blaming anybody who has bought a cheeseburger at McDonald's for every diagnosed case of heart disease.

[DC Tom]

Wrong, I called you a thought leader. I place blame with the NRA and their supporters. I place blame with attitudes that allow support for the NRA. I think you are part of a number of factors that shape attitudes here, which is indisputably a conservative-leaning forum. The reason I included your name is to highlight the way you argue, which as you're demonstrating here, is to name-call, dismiss, ignore the larger point, and then proceed to arrogantly trout false information. If you've shown flexibility in considering your ability to be wrong, I haven't seen it (if it exists, include a link when you send the Christmas card so we can stay on topic).

 

Here's what over 300 mass shootings means: http://shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015

 

It's all laid out very simply with references and links to local news articles about each event right there. I'm not sure specifically which FBI statistics you're referring to but I am imagining you may be quibbling over the word "mass"? That's my only guess because this is black and white. That or you're just trying to prove me wrong in some way so you don't have to reckon with the larger point. I can't imagine any reason you'd try to argue with a straight face that the rate of mass shootings this year is "normal" except that maybe you're a sociopath.

I argue that the rate of mass shootings is normal because IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER YEAR, you moron. And the FBI statistics I cite are the same ones you link to - that site uses the FBI's definition of "mass shooting."

 

Like I said: I've read the article you pulled that from, AND I've checked the violent crime statistics from the FBI, so I know that article misrepresented the statistics to get pants-wetting children such as yourself all up in arms. So don't go throwing around that "There's been more than 300 mass shootings this year!" factotum when you don't know what it means. And don't B word about being called an idiot when you're being an idiot.

 

And the idea that I'm a "thought leader" is ludicrous. I disagree with everybody.

Edited December 3, 2015 by DC Tom

[Chef Jim]

Another day, another mass shooting. What will it take for this country to recognize it has a gun problem? It's going to take people who hate admitting they're wrong to admit they may be wrong about gun control.

 

Obviously I never post in this subforum, I've checked enough times to know it's little more than an echo chamber for conservative talk radio points. DC Tom, LABillzFan, and the other thought leaders here slap each other on the back and never have to consider they may be wrong. Well, conservatives do an admirable job of stubbornly ignoring reality. I'll grant you that in general I think people only preach to the choir so I'm going to go against the grain and try to communicate to NRA sympathizers here.

 

That's why I'm going to be blunt and straight to the point. If this post gets taken down or banned because I'm clearly posting when I'm angry, so be it.

 

If you're an NRA supporter: these shootings are on YOU. That's right, you are implicit. Your actions are partly responsible for these tragedies. Your selfish, delusional, ignorant fantasies of being a cowboy hero have led to this current reality of America where mass shootings are becoming a daily occurrence. You are part of the problem that prevents gun legislation. And since there is no foreseeable opportunity for legislation and an end to the madness, at the very least, you should feel bad and consider changing your stupid views.

 

This year alone, there have been more mass shootings than days in the year. These are not "isolated incidents" like the NRA likes to pretend. You need to take a long look in the mirror and realize how badly your attitudes affect the rest of the country. It's absurd how easily accessible weapons are available to psychopaths. Who's to blame for that?

 

...

 

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

Easily the dumbest defense. Guns kill people. None of these mass murders happen without the ease of guns.

 

"If we outlawed guns, criminals would find a way to get them anyway."

So instead let's make it easier for "them" to get them by having them widely available? How's that working out? The reality is, because gun manufacturers have made SO MANY of these portable death machines, OBVIOUSLY they will not go away overnight. But legislation is the first step; rooting them out is the second step. It's like saying that because withdrawals are bad, you should just keep doing heroin forever.

 

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Where are all the good guys with guns then? You guys have been asleep at the wheel if you're supposed to be the ones preventing these. Nevermind that this quip doesn't sync up with reality at all; the amount of times a shooter has been stopped by an armed civilian have been so few that it's little more than an anomaly. Stats show it's far more likely that having a gun in your home makes it more likely for a gun death to occur in the home than it being used in a "positive" way, but I'm sure Obama just made up those stats to scare you, though.

 

"It's a mental health issue."

Hey good point, social services should be expanded in this country. Unfortunately that would mean higher taxes! Well, we know which segment of the population will be blocking any efforts to improve this then. Even if we did somehow improve access to mental health — which won't happen — the first realization people would come to would be "oh well obviously we should get rid of guns, that's an easy one."

 

"The government fears armed citizens!"

So incredibly delusional. The government taps all your communication, engages in drone warfare on a regular basis, etc. etc., but they're afraid of your sidearm? Get over yourself.

 

"It's for protection!"

It's for your absurd fantasies. Protect you from what, home invasion? Sorry, that's not nearly good enough of a justification. Guns are overwhelmingly used to attack, not defend. And your possessions are meaningless. Nobody wants to steal your DVD-VCR combo.

 

"But the shooting today happened in California, which has stronger gun laws! See? Gun laws don't work!"

The laws are not strong enough anywhere. Waiting periods, background checks, written tests. It's not enough. We need to get there on a nation-wide level because gun sales are still through the roof at gun shows and still pass state borders mostly with impunity.

 

"Way to politicize a tragedy."

If we can't talk about this now, then when? When it happens to someone you know?

 

"But I like hunting!"

At least this one is honest. The reality is your hobby sucks. If your daddy got you into hunting and that's how you bonded, your daddy sucks. Hunt with a bow & arrow, or a knife, or even a musket if you want. Go ahead and keep the muskets.

 

...

 

If you're an NRA member and you read all this, you're probably pissed and looking to score points by somehow proving me wrong. Go ahead and shoot the messenger, I don't care. Call me whatever names you want, like that makes what I'm saying not true.

 

Maybe in time you'll consider that these tragedies are preventable and that we need to at least "TRY" reducing access to guns. That does not happen until the NRA has less power in our government. And that doesn't happen until their base starts to turn on them; until gun sales stop GOING UP whenever there's a mass shooting. That's why I'm reaching out.

 

The NRA needs to be recognized for what it is — an enabler of terrorism. We need to stop dancing around this hard truth just because we've been living the lie for so long. White male sociopaths with guns are terrorists, plain and simple.

 

If you're a gun owner, if you're one of the fools that buys into the NRA rhetoric so they can keep making money off of your delusional and fearful fantasies, the best way to send your "thoughts and prayers" to the victims of these shootings would be to take your gun and shoot yourself. Go ahead and do it today, even. At least then the blood on your hands can be your own.

 

So wait. Did you tell me to take my gun and shoot myself? Shall my wife take hers and shoot herself too? !@#$ you!!

 

And yes we have our guns for one reason and one reason only...protection. We live in the hills above Oakland. It's a shopping mall up there for break-ins. Our home was broken in to a year after we bought it so we decided to arm ourselves for protection. Our home's original owners were the victims of a home invasion robbery. They were tied up and beaten for 6 hours. I'm sorry, you break in to our home now when we're there you're in for a rude awakening. You want to take my guns away and leave my wife defenseless against the animals that come up in to our neighborhood to prey? I'm sorry did I forget to say !@#$ you!!??

[LA Grant]

I argue that the rate of mass shootings is normal because IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER YEAR, you moron. And the FBI statistics I cite are the same ones you link to - that site uses the FBI's definition of "mass shooting."

 

Like I said: I've read the article you pulled that from, AND I've checked the violent crime statistics from the FBI, so I know that article misrepresented the statistics to get pants-wetting children such as yourself all up in arms. So don't go throwing around that "There's been more than 300 mass shootings this year!" factotum when you don't know what it means. And don't B word about being called an idiot when you're being an idiot.

 

And the idea that I'm a "thought leader" is ludicrous. I disagree with everybody.

 

You don't disagree with everybody; plenty of people agree with you, anyway. You're not as unique as you wish. Anyway so if we both agree there are over 300 mass shootings this year — exactly what is being misrepresented? Are there not over 300 mass shootings? Then what are you talking about? If you're saying we shouldn't worry about 300 shootings this year because we had as many shootings last year — how the hell is that an argument against gun control?

[GG]

And again, how long have guns been around?

[LA Grant]

 

So wait. Did you tell me to take my gun and shoot myself? Shall my wife take hers and shoot herself too? !@#$ you!!

 

And yes we have our guns for one reason and one reason only...protection. We live in the hills above Oakland. It's a shopping mall up there for break-ins. Our home was broken in to a year after we bought it so we decided to arm ourselves for protection. Our home's original owners were the victims of a home invasion robbery. They were tied up and beaten for 6 hours. I'm sorry, you break in to our home now when we're there you're in for a rude awakening. You want to take my guns away and leave my wife defenseless against the animals that come up in to our neighborhood to prey? I'm sorry did I forget to say !@#$ you!!??

 

You heard a story about a home being invaded and your house had a break-in when you weren't there. So now you have guns and look at your neighbors suspiciously enough to call them "animals." Dude, consider the possibility that you are the dangerous one in your situation. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know you, don't lose your ****. I'm not saying you're going to kill anybody but listen to how you sound — like you're capable of killing someone if you get scared enough.

 

In your imagination, a burglar is a group of powerful criminals who are dead set on a mission to terrorize you because they really want your TV. Okay, fine. But what if a drunk teenager tries to break into your house at night for a stupid prank and gets murdered because you're already jumpy? Is that impossible? Maybe it's impossible because you have good self control and you would never let that happen. But imagine someone in a similar situation who is not as level-headed as yourself. Are all burglars deserving of death? Even if you have the gall to say "yes, anyone dumb enough to burglarize deserves to die so I can protect myself" — less gun control means it's also more likely that your boogeyman has a gun. "They'd find a way to get guns anyway and now they have a gun and I don't." That's so many steps of delusional paranoid hypotheticals. Home invasions are generally unlikely, statistically. The Bureau of Justice has stats that show it at <1% of homicides per year. I'm not saying home invasion is impossible, I am saying it is not a good enough justification considering the consequences from having guns widely accessible leads to Sandy Hook and the countless other tragedies. If you're so worried about your house being broken into, there are other ways to keep it safe.

 

The focus should be to make it less likely for anyone to have a gun. It is possible. We as a country have not tried to make it harder across the board for everyone to have a gun and that's where we need to be thinking.

[Rob's House]

 

You don't disagree with everybody; plenty of people agree with you, anyway. You're not as unique as you wish. Anyway so if we both agree there are over 300 mass shootings this year exactly what is being misrepresented? Are there not over 300 mass shootings? Then what are you talking about? If you're saying we shouldn't worry about 300 shootings this year because we had as many shootings last year how the hell is that an argument against gun control?

Do you have a solution or are you just here to piss and moan?

[Gene Frenkle]

 

Pretty bold talk Tom, for someone with "blood on their hands"

 

 

Here's an idea: What if the Left were as angry at Islamic terror as they are the NRA?

 

Because you either have to want to turn the Middle East into a glass parking lot or you're pro-Islamic terrorism. Get it?

 

Nuance is for suckers!

[LA Grant]

Do you have a solution or are you just here to piss and moan?

 

The solution is to consider gun control as positive and necessary. That's it. If you agree that's worth pursuing, that's all we can do at this moment. I mean, you can call representatives, I guess, or there are plenty of ways to be an active citizen. But the issue is not having consensus that guns are part of the problem. Agreeing that it's too easy to get guns, that gun control needs to be much stronger, and that this is a real problem — just finding agreement is the solution.

[meazza]

 

The solution is to consider gun control as positive and necessary. That's it. If you agree that's worth pursuing, that's all we can do at this moment. I mean, you can call representatives, I guess, or there are plenty of ways to be an active citizen. But the issue is not having consensus that guns are part of the problem. Agreeing that it's too easy to get guns, that gun control needs to be much stronger, and that this is a real problem — just finding agreement is the solution.

 

How dare you insult our thought leaders.

[ExiledInIllinois]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/12/02/hours-before-san-bernardino-mass-shooting-doctors-were-on-capitol-hill-petitioning-congress-to-lift-ban-on-gun-violence-research/

 

The conservative revolution marches on! What really is the harm to doing the research?

[Maury Ballstein]

You heard a story about a home being invaded and your house had a break-in when you weren't there. So now you have guns and look at your neighbors suspiciously enough to call them "animals." Dude, consider the possibility that you are the dangerous one in your situation. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know you, don't lose your ****. I'm not saying you're going to kill anybody but listen to how you sound like you're capable of killing someone if you get scared enough.

 

In your imagination, a burglar is a group of powerful criminals who are dead set on a mission to terrorize you because they really want your TV. Okay, fine. But what if a drunk teenager tries to break into your house at night for a stupid prank and gets murdered because you're already jumpy? Is that impossible?

 

This is the stupidest !%# I've ever seen. He is the real menace at home where he pays the mortgage to live. Which has a LOCK on the door. You're an emotional trainwreck. Go to sleep.

 

"They really want your Tv". Way to downplay burglary.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Ryan L Billz

[Rob's House]

 

The solution is to consider gun control as positive and necessary. That's it. If you agree that's worth pursuing, that's all we can do at this moment. I mean, you can call representatives, I guess, or there are plenty of ways to be an active citizen. But the issue is not having consensus that guns are part of the problem. Agreeing that it's too easy to get guns, that gun control needs to be much stronger, and that this is a real problem just finding agreement is the solution.

That's a pretty lazy position, IMO. The same logic can (and often is) used to rationalize the "war on drugs."

[IDBillzFan]

Do you have a solution or are you just here to piss and moan?

Pissing and moaning. The Tim Graham of posters.

[LA Grant]

That's a pretty lazy position, IMO. The same logic can (and often is) used to rationalize the "war on drugs."

 

I mean, we can go march if you want, let me know your schedule. It's not about me, I'm not asking you to vote for me, I'm just some idiot arguing on the internet like anyone. If more people agreed about gun control, we'd find more solutions. ExiledInIllinois just posted a story about Republicans in Congress blocking gun violence research. Just getting more research and considering it more would be one step. Guns are a big sprawling problem, but there are steps that can be taken.

 

If you're expecting some magic wand fix tonight, well, I hate to say it guys but we're probably not going to change the world tonight on the TwoBillsDrive sub-forum. But I have enough optimism in people in general (not a lot but enough) that I think if people talk and consider it, they might come to a pretty obvious and common sense realization: that guns are obviously a major problem and should be addressed.

[GG]

 

The solution is to consider gun control as positive and necessary. That's it. If you agree that's worth pursuing, that's all we can do at this moment. I mean, you can call representatives, I guess, or there are plenty of ways to be an active citizen. But the issue is not having consensus that guns are part of the problem. Agreeing that it's too easy to get guns, that gun control needs to be much stronger, and that this is a real problem — just finding agreement is the solution.

 

Is that why the mass killings you're so concerned about tend to occur in states with extremely severe gun control laws?

 

Does France have tighter gun control laws than the US?

[Maury Ballstein]

I'm just some idiot

[FireChan]

This is why you don't post when you are emotionally unstable. Every single one of your "counter-arguments," are chock-full of delusions and false choices. Actually pretty sad.

Edited December 3, 2015 by FireChan