Blood is on the NRA's hands

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

The side arguing on emotion. I've never felt strongly one way or the other about the NRA or gun control. Reading this thread and seeing random twitter updates about the topic, I'm beginning to think that the NRA is more necessary than ever. Something needs to be there in defense of the 2nd Amendment against hysterics.

That was me a few years ago. Then the more I began to think about it, the more pro/con arguments I read and coupled with my own personal observations and deductions I have grown to believe very strongly in gun rights. I believe the 2nd ammendment is crucially important to protecting our societal values, freedoms, American way of life and persons. I am now ready (finished researching and now own a safe) to buy my first gun and exercise my 2nd ammendment right.

 

Its unfortunate the OP wants to yield to shallow knee jerk emotional over reactions instead of critically and honestly looking at an issue. My impression is he just heard his liberal professor say guns are evil and we need to be more like Europe since that is the liberal academia wet dream cliche. And his first emotional reaction is to just hap hazardly run with it and not actually honestly look at the issue objectively.

 

Law abiding citizens with guns are not a problem.

 

Law abiding citizens need to be able to protect themselves and their families.

 

There are already enough guns on the black market anyway let alone buying them legally.

 

Criminals by their very actions do not care about laws and are willing to break them.

 

A gun is a tool. Period. So are pipe bombs, pressure cookers samurai swords, dull hunting knives and SUVs. Any of them can be used to kill.

 

The 2nd ammendment guarantees the others. The founding fathers who were a hell of a lot wiser that I am thought so.

[TH3]

I'm sorry...did you just personally blame me for causing the NRA to cause people I don't know to kill people with guns that are already illegal?

 

Look, I know this is a difficult time for you, and that as someone who is developmentally disabled this has a deeply personal impact on you. But please try to remember: you're not unwelcome here because you're a liberal. You're unwelcome here because you're a completely irrational, childish little pants-wetting moron.

 

Unwelcome to a forum with 7-8 backwater posters who seemingly have nothing to do all day and night but monitor this place where they simply give each other the reach around? The OP must be heartbroken...

[Rob's House]

 

So you're saying because some stranger on the Internet didn't give you solutions on a nice enough plate, it's not worth considering? It's not worth doing? It's not worth reading up on? Your solution is, what? "Stop whining"? "Get over it"? "Well, nothing can be done about guns, guys, LA Grant on the TwoBillsDrive sub-forum didn't adequately convince me in a single post that doing something is better than doing nothing. Shootings that are clearly preventable will just happen forever and there's nothing we can do."

 

What an entitled and lazy attitude you have here. Shame on you.

You didn't say "hey, maybe we should consider and discuss the efficacy of various forms of gun control," and lead into an interactive discussion of ideas and their merits. You said "the NRA has blood on their hands," and launched into some semi-coherent rant about the moral depravity of those who don't subscribe to a philosophy you've scarcely defined. And then you whine about being called on your whining.

 

It's funny that you use the term "lazy attitude" because I can think of few things more intellectually lazy than railing against an abstract idea without even a vague idea of what the alternative should be.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Rob's House

[DC Tom]

 

Until you get your maintenance bill at Audi after 30,000 miles.

 

Yeah...little known fact: the Tiger tank was a complex piece of engineering. Hideously expensive. But remarkably well engineered. The main drive bearing, for example, had a designed ten year life span, it was so finely engineered and machined.

 

Problem is, the lifespan of a tank in combat was six months. But damn if that drive bearing wasn't good for another nine and a half years.

 

"Impressive German engineering" isn't always practical.

[Rob's House]

 

If only the world operated with such a clear black & white as your worldview, it would be easy to identify the good from the bad, then we'd know who to arm. It's too bad adults have to live in a more complicated world. Playing cops & robbers sure was fun on the playground, though.

That was his point, dipshit.

[DC Tom]

 

DC Tom, everything you just said is a perfect description of yourself! Don't you love when anger reveals stuff like that? You aren't arguing nuance at all, you've just been emotional and name-calling the entire time. Just above when we were talking about Switzerland there was some nuance but before it was semantics about "mass" and "normal." So no, no points for you. And although you are actually misrepresenting my original post (as you do, because you are both an idiot and a moron), I don't actually disagree — the NRA and their agenda are to blame for all shootings where guns are legally purchased.

 

"I know you are but what am I" doesn't work past kindergarten. But then, neither do histrionics. So at least you're consistent.

[Rob's House]

 

Love the use of "handwavium" and "appeal to popularity fallacy."

 

Anyway, the reason I didn't respond to those is because those are junk questions, frankly. They're lazily stated and read to me as weak "gotcha" attempts. I'm not your father and I don't have infinite patience to answer every stupid thing. The pipe bomb question, the France question, the California question they don't provide any honest counter-argument toward advocating for gun control and the answer to all three of those would be something I've said a few times one gun law will not change everything. Gun laws will not eliminate terrorism. But stronger restrictions could prevent the many other cases of domestic terrorism: the Planned Parenthood attack, Aurora, Sandy Hook, and the innumerable other examples of legally purchased weapons used by US citizens with extremist views. The "unknown shooter" question is a bit more honest and interesting. That deserves attention too. But it's not mutually exclusive.

 

Okay now it's your turn. Why should we not insist on additional gun restrictions? What is to be lost from removing access to weaponry for untrained civilians? If you insist this won't work, how can you be so certain it won't improve the current situation? And, same question as FireChan answered should the NRA have more power, less power, or the same amount of influence? Why or why not?

This is the first time in this thread you've attempted to define what you're advocating for. And the question illustrates the problem: How is one to argue the merits or detriments of a policy when you haven't stated what the policy is?

 

In this instance you've finally set forth a policy that one could at least take a position on. It's still vague and begs many questions, like what constitutes being "trained" and how would you logistically implement it, but at least you've got a starting point for an actual discussion.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

[Azalin]

How?

 

Like we do in Texas. Half the victims at that Christmas party would have carried concealed handguns.

[meazza]

 

Like we do in Texas. Half the victims at that Christmas party would have carried concealed handguns.

 

Didn't the shooters have vests?

[LA Grant]

I realized you guys are absolutely right.

 

The mere idea of stronger gun laws is ridiculous! I mean, what would we even do? Test people in more intrusive ways than we currently do? Mandatory training? Longer waiting periods? Research? Prevent sales at gun shows? Literally any definition of "restrict access"? Well, who would decide? You? I don't know you. As you can see, there are too many questions and who has time for that? Guns aren't the problem. There actually isn't a problem, it's all hysteria from the media. No one has died from guns. Shut up.

If guns were outlawed, it would just create a black market where criminals would buy them anyway. Sure, the prices would balloon because these would now be scarer items, meaning buying an illegal gun would cost several times what it costs now, but... uhh... still. Think about CRIMINALS. They have easy access to money from all that bank robbing and burglarizing they're doing because they're CRIMINALS! Just thinking about criminals and all the crime they're getting away with makes me want to buy another gun.

 

Owning a gun is a rational decision, not based in emotion at all. Guns are never purchased in fear. The reason they're so frequently purchased after mass shootings, or during any discussion of gun control, is because everyone was just procrastinating and then that reminded them "buy a gun" was on their to-do list. It's not based in irrational fear. How is fear an emotion anyway? It's not. Shut up.

 

They are for protection against home invasion, despite the fact that is statistically very unlikely! I keep it in a safe so my stupid son won't accidentally shoot himself which does mean it would be difficult to access in case of a (again statistically very unlikely) home invasion. I guess it doesn't make the most sense. But I heard a story about home invasion and that made me scar--uh, I mean, very rationally decide to exercise my RIGHT as an AMERICAN to own a gun.

 

The government is bad and the NRA is good. Thankfully the government is afraid of me because I have a gun. If the government came for my guns, I would never give it to them. But then if someone said "hey, support the troops" well... I guess I would have to give up my gun because I am a patriot... I just pray it never comes to that.

 

Assault weapons and handguns are necessary so I can personally feel protected because I am the only person that exists. I'd feel better if those CRIMINALS didn't have pipe bombs and that's why pipe bombs should be legal. Also hand grenades. I need it to feel safe from my neighbors who might be criminals! They saw me bring in a new dining set the other week and I know Dave down the street was eyeing it all suspiciously. If Dave comes over uninvited one more time, he better hope I don't have my gun.

 

Guns are a very rational decision and the numbers back it up. Like the Second Amendment, written by wizards who could see the future. In the event of a mass shooting where people may be fleeing from gunmen and chaos, what we need in that situation are MORE gunmen, specifically untrained concealed carriers!! I feel tough when I have a gun so I think I would probably be pretty good in that situation. Yeah yeah yeah, I've heard people say that that only increases the chances of more innocent people getting hurt but I told those people to shut up. Did they write the Second Amendment? Didn't think so. I have a gun in my lap right now so I feel tough enough to tell you to shut up.

 

Glad I'm thinking straight now. Thanks for convincing me! I love guns!!!

[meazza]

I realized you guys are absolutely right.

 

The mere idea of stronger gun laws is ridiculous! I mean, what would we even do? Test people in more intrusive ways than we currently do? Mandatory training? Longer waiting periods? Research? Prevent sales at gun shows? Literally any definition of "restrict access"? Well, who would decide? You? I don't know you. As you can see, there are too many questions and who has time for that? Guns aren't the problem. There actually isn't a problem, it's all hysteria from the media. No one has died from guns. Shut up.

If guns were outlawed, it would just create a black market where criminals would buy them anyway. Sure, the prices would balloon because these would now be scarer items, meaning buying an illegal gun would cost several times what it costs now, but... uhh... still. Think about CRIMINALS. They have easy access to money from all that bank robbing and burglarizing they're doing because they're CRIMINALS! Just thinking about criminals and all the crime they're getting away with makes me want to buy another gun.

 

Owning a gun is a rational decision, not based in emotion at all. Guns are never purchased in fear. The reason they're so frequently purchased after mass shootings, or during any discussion of gun control, is because everyone was just procrastinating and then that reminded them "buy a gun" was on their to-do list. It's not based in irrational fear. How is fear an emotion anyway? It's not. Shut up.

 

They are for protection against home invasion, despite the fact that is statistically very unlikely! I keep it in a safe so my stupid son won't accidentally shoot himself which does mean it would be difficult to access in case of a (again statistically very unlikely) home invasion. I guess it doesn't make the most sense. But I heard a story about home invasion and that made me scar--uh, I mean, very rationally decide to exercise my RIGHT as an AMERICAN to own a gun.

 

The government is bad and the NRA is good. Thankfully the government is afraid of me because I have a gun. If the government came for my guns, I would never give it to them. But then if someone said "hey, support the troops" well... I guess I would have to give up my gun because I am a patriot... I just pray it never comes to that.

 

Assault weapons and handguns are necessary so I can personally feel protected because I am the only person that exists. I'd feel better if those CRIMINALS didn't have pipe bombs and that's why pipe bombs should be legal. Also hand grenades. I need it to feel safe from my neighbors who might be criminals! They saw me bring in a new dining set the other week and I know Dave down the street was eyeing it all suspiciously. If Dave comes over uninvited one more time, he better hope I don't have my gun.

 

Guns are a very rational decision and the numbers back it up. Like the Second Amendment, written by wizards who could see the future. In the event of a mass shooting where people may be fleeing from gunmen and chaos, what we need in that situation are MORE gunmen, specifically untrained concealed carriers!! I feel tough when I have a gun so I think I would probably be pretty good in that situation. Yeah yeah yeah, I've heard people say that that only increases the chances of more innocent people getting hurt but I told those people to shut up. Did they write the Second Amendment? Didn't think so. I have a gun in my lap right now so I feel tough enough to tell you to shut up.

 

Glad I'm thinking straight now. Thanks for convincing me! I love guns!!!

 

 

You're an idiot.

Edited December 4, 2015 by meazza

[Rob's House]

I realized you guys are absolutely right.

 

The mere idea of stronger gun laws is ridiculous! I mean, what would we even do? Test people in more intrusive ways than we currently do? Mandatory training? Longer waiting periods? Research? Prevent sales at gun shows? Literally any definition of "restrict access"? Well, who would decide? You? I don't know you. As you can see, there are too many questions and who has time for that? Guns aren't the problem. There actually isn't a problem, it's all hysteria from the media. No one has died from guns. Shut up.

 

If guns were outlawed, it would just create a black market where criminals would buy them anyway. Sure, the prices would balloon because these would now be scarer items, meaning buying an illegal gun would cost several times what it costs now, but... uhh... still. Think about CRIMINALS. They have easy access to money from all that bank robbing and burglarizing they're doing because they're CRIMINALS! Just thinking about criminals and all the crime they're getting away with makes me want to buy another gun.

 

Owning a gun is a rational decision, not based in emotion at all. Guns are never purchased in fear. The reason they're so frequently purchased after mass shootings, or during any discussion of gun control, is because everyone was just procrastinating and then that reminded them "buy a gun" was on their to-do list. It's not based in irrational fear. How is fear an emotion anyway? It's not. Shut up.

 

They are for protection against home invasion, despite the fact that is statistically very unlikely! I keep it in a safe so my stupid son won't accidentally shoot himself which does mean it would be difficult to access in case of a (again statistically very unlikely) home invasion. I guess it doesn't make the most sense. But I heard a story about home invasion and that made me scar--uh, I mean, very rationally decide to exercise my RIGHT as an AMERICAN to own a gun.

 

The government is bad and the NRA is good. Thankfully the government is afraid of me because I have a gun. If the government came for my guns, I would never give it to them. But then if someone said "hey, support the troops" well... I guess I would have to give up my gun because I am a patriot... I just pray it never comes to that.

 

Assault weapons and handguns are necessary so I can personally feel protected because I am the only person that exists. I'd feel better if those CRIMINALS didn't have pipe bombs and that's why pipe bombs should be legal. Also hand grenades. I need it to feel safe from my neighbors who might be criminals! They saw me bring in a new dining set the other week and I know Dave down the street was eyeing it all suspiciously. If Dave comes over uninvited one more time, he better hope I don't have my gun.

 

Guns are a very rational decision and the numbers back it up. Like the Second Amendment, written by wizards who could see the future. In the event of a mass shooting where people may be fleeing from gunmen and chaos, what we need in that situation are MORE gunmen, specifically untrained concealed carriers!! I feel tough when I have a gun so I think I would probably be pretty good in that situation. Yeah yeah yeah, I've heard people say that that only increases the chances of more innocent people getting hurt but I told those people to shut up. Did they write the Second Amendment? Didn't think so. I have a gun in my lap right now so I feel tough enough to tell you to shut up.

 

Glad I'm thinking straight now. Thanks for convincing me! I love guns!!!

If your son shoots himself I think it will be addition by subtraction for the gene pool. I support your decision.

[B-Man]

I realized you guys are absolutely right.

 

 

Glad I'm thinking straight now. Thanks for convincing me! I love guns!!!

 

 

John Haiman, a linguist at Macalester College in St. Paul, Minn., says people who use sarcasm are rarely just kidding. The words come from an authentic place, but it’s wrapped up as a joke for protection. Essentially, sarcasm is a survival technique for the insecure.

 

It’s used to make yourself appear to be stronger or better, but it’s not said with enough seriousness for anyone to accuse you of being a jerk.

 

 

“Show me a sarcastic person, and I will show you a wounded person.

 

 

and as I have written before, Good Sarcasm is an art form.........................LA Grant doesn't have it.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[TakeYouToTasker]

I realized you guys are absolutely right.

 

The mere idea of stronger gun laws is ridiculous! I mean, what would we even do? Test people in more intrusive ways than we currently do? Mandatory training? Longer waiting periods? Research? Prevent sales at gun shows? Literally any definition of "restrict access"? Well, who would decide? You? I don't know you. As you can see, there are too many questions and who has time for that? Guns aren't the problem. There actually isn't a problem, it's all hysteria from the media. No one has died from guns. Shut up.

 

If guns were outlawed, it would just create a black market where criminals would buy them anyway. Sure, the prices would balloon because these would now be scarer items, meaning buying an illegal gun would cost several times what it costs now, but... uhh... still. Think about CRIMINALS. They have easy access to money from all that bank robbing and burglarizing they're doing because they're CRIMINALS! Just thinking about criminals and all the crime they're getting away with makes me want to buy another gun.

 

Owning a gun is a rational decision, not based in emotion at all. Guns are never purchased in fear. The reason they're so frequently purchased after mass shootings, or during any discussion of gun control, is because everyone was just procrastinating and then that reminded them "buy a gun" was on their to-do list. It's not based in irrational fear. How is fear an emotion anyway? It's not. Shut up.

 

They are for protection against home invasion, despite the fact that is statistically very unlikely! I keep it in a safe so my stupid son won't accidentally shoot himself which does mean it would be difficult to access in case of a (again statistically very unlikely) home invasion. I guess it doesn't make the most sense. But I heard a story about home invasion and that made me scar--uh, I mean, very rationally decide to exercise my RIGHT as an AMERICAN to own a gun.

 

The government is bad and the NRA is good. Thankfully the government is afraid of me because I have a gun. If the government came for my guns, I would never give it to them. But then if someone said "hey, support the troops" well... I guess I would have to give up my gun because I am a patriot... I just pray it never comes to that.

 

Assault weapons and handguns are necessary so I can personally feel protected because I am the only person that exists. I'd feel better if those CRIMINALS didn't have pipe bombs and that's why pipe bombs should be legal. Also hand grenades. I need it to feel safe from my neighbors who might be criminals! They saw me bring in a new dining set the other week and I know Dave down the street was eyeing it all suspiciously. If Dave comes over uninvited one more time, he better hope I don't have my gun.

 

Guns are a very rational decision and the numbers back it up. Like the Second Amendment, written by wizards who could see the future. In the event of a mass shooting where people may be fleeing from gunmen and chaos, what we need in that situation are MORE gunmen, specifically untrained concealed carriers!! I feel tough when I have a gun so I think I would probably be pretty good in that situation. Yeah yeah yeah, I've heard people say that that only increases the chances of more innocent people getting hurt but I told those people to shut up. Did they write the Second Amendment? Didn't think so. I have a gun in my lap right now so I feel tough enough to tell you to shut up.

 

Glad I'm thinking straight now. Thanks for convincing me! I love guns!!!

You're welcome.

 

I'll kick your ass anytime you need it.

[meazza]

 

 

John Haiman, a linguist at Macalester College in St. Paul, Minn., says people who use sarcasm are rarely just kidding. The words come from an authentic place, but it’s wrapped up as a joke for protection. Essentially, sarcasm is a survival technique for the insecure.

 

It’s used to make yourself appear to be stronger or better, but it’s not said with enough seriousness for anyone to accuse you of being a jerk.

 

 

“Show me a sarcastic person, and I will show you a wounded person.

 

 

and as I have written before, Good Sarcasm is an art form.........................LA Grant doesn't have it.

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

Whateverrrrrrrrrrrrr

[DC Tom]

I realized you guys are absolutely right.

 

The mere idea of stronger gun laws is ridiculous!

 

NOBODY SAID THAT.

 

There's not even a need to read beyond that.

[B-Man]

AMERICA’S DUMBEST SENATOR? Dem Sen. Cites Success of Gun Laws in California a Day After San Bernardino.

 

“Sensible gun laws work, we’ve proven it in California, and we’re not gonna give up.”

[DC Tom]

AMERICA’S DUMBEST SENATOR? Dem Sen. Cites Success of Gun Laws in California a Day After San Bernardino.

 

“Sensible gun laws work, we’ve proven it in California, and we’re not gonna give up.”

 

I'm trying to guess who said that without reading it...problem is, I have to guess between Feinstein or Boxer, either of whom is stupid enough to say that.

 

What the !@#$ are you Californians doing, electing people so indistinguishably stupid?

[keepthefaith]

I realized you guys are absolutely right.

 

The mere idea of stronger gun laws is ridiculous! I mean, what would we even do? Test people in more intrusive ways than we currently do? Mandatory training? Longer waiting periods? Research? Prevent sales at gun shows? Literally any definition of "restrict access"? Well, who would decide? You? I don't know you. As you can see, there are too many questions and who has time for that? Guns aren't the problem. There actually isn't a problem, it's all hysteria from the media. No one has died from guns. Shut up.

If guns were outlawed, it would just create a black market where criminals would buy them anyway. Sure, the prices would balloon because these would now be scarer items, meaning buying an illegal gun would cost several times what it costs now, but... uhh... still. Think about CRIMINALS. They have easy access to money from all that bank robbing and burglarizing they're doing because they're CRIMINALS! Just thinking about criminals and all the crime they're getting away with makes me want to buy another gun.

 

Owning a gun is a rational decision, not based in emotion at all. Guns are never purchased in fear. The reason they're so frequently purchased after mass shootings, or during any discussion of gun control, is because everyone was just procrastinating and then that reminded them "buy a gun" was on their to-do list. It's not based in irrational fear. How is fear an emotion anyway? It's not. Shut up.

 

They are for protection against home invasion, despite the fact that is statistically very unlikely! I keep it in a safe so my stupid son won't accidentally shoot himself which does mean it would be difficult to access in case of a (again statistically very unlikely) home invasion. I guess it doesn't make the most sense. But I heard a story about home invasion and that made me scar--uh, I mean, very rationally decide to exercise my RIGHT as an AMERICAN to own a gun.

 

The government is bad and the NRA is good. Thankfully the government is afraid of me because I have a gun. If the government came for my guns, I would never give it to them. But then if someone said "hey, support the troops" well... I guess I would have to give up my gun because I am a patriot... I just pray it never comes to that.

 

Assault weapons and handguns are necessary so I can personally feel protected because I am the only person that exists. I'd feel better if those CRIMINALS didn't have pipe bombs and that's why pipe bombs should be legal. Also hand grenades. I need it to feel safe from my neighbors who might be criminals! They saw me bring in a new dining set the other week and I know Dave down the street was eyeing it all suspiciously. If Dave comes over uninvited one more time, he better hope I don't have my gun.

 

Guns are a very rational decision and the numbers back it up. Like the Second Amendment, written by wizards who could see the future. In the event of a mass shooting where people may be fleeing from gunmen and chaos, what we need in that situation are MORE gunmen, specifically untrained concealed carriers!! I feel tough when I have a gun so I think I would probably be pretty good in that situation. Yeah yeah yeah, I've heard people say that that only increases the chances of more innocent people getting hurt but I told those people to shut up. Did they write the Second Amendment? Didn't think so. I have a gun in my lap right now so I feel tough enough to tell you to shut up.

 

Glad I'm thinking straight now. Thanks for convincing me! I love guns!!!

Well, you're like many liberals. You can't win the argument on merit so you simply attack the other side, In your defense, you've got a weak hand to play on this and any number of liberal positions. If you can't present the facts, the math on this subject or any other, it's probably best to fold.

Edited December 4, 2015 by keepthefaith