Jobu Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 Yes we need a QB, always have. Ask Indy how that is working out for them. It will end when the Bills as an organization come up with a comprehensive vision of what kind of team they want. Get a competent GM that believes in that vision and can stock for it. Get competent coaches that believe in that vision and can teach it. Draft, develop, and retain competent players capable of executing the offense and defense of that vision. As an organization we have been a turnstile for GM's, Coaches, and ultimately players in the last 15 years. That is no way to go through life son.
BillsFanNC Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I think the Pats* being the team of the decade has contributed a lot to the problems. If we were in a division that was up for grabs once in awhile, we might fare better.. Then again, probably not. Yep, zero room for error with the Bills as they start every year 0-2 in the division and conference before even a down is played.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 Yes we need a QB, always have. Ask Indy how that is working out for them. It will end when the Bills as an organization come up with a comprehensive vision of what kind of team they want. Get a competent GM that believes in that vision and can stock for it. Get competent coaches that believe in that vision and can teach it. Draft, develop, and retain competent players capable of executing the offense and defense of that vision. As an organization we have been a turnstile for GM's, Coaches, and ultimately players in the last 15 years. That is no way to go through life son. This ^ We need a GM that does a consistent job of finding the proper guys that fit into a system. Whaley is popular around here, despite the results being the same as previous GM's. I believe he has done a great job of stockpiling talent. That's why there are so many Whaley fans on this forum. However, simply acquiring talent doesn't create champions. We need guys that are smart, have heart, and are winners. We have too many guys on this roster that don't fit that mold imo.
nucci Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I still can't get over 2004. I was really high on Roethlisberger, not moving up to get him, then trading up to get Losman, then missing out on Rodgers with the pick we traded was the ultimate kick in the juevos. I believe I read that Donahoe tried to trade up for Roethlisberger
BobbyC81 Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 But the following year, things seemed on the up and up with the drafting of rookie sensation Mike Williams out if Texas and the acquisition of Drew Bledsoe from the Patriots. I'm sure nobody realistically expected playoffs in 2002, but the Bills did finish at a respectable 8-8, a 5 win swing from the disastrous year before. And the offense was transforming into pure dynamite! 2003 had to be "their year", right?!..The Bills, fresh of an outstanding 2002 offensively, added crucial parts to solidify their defense. Acquiring standout linebacker Takeo Spikes from the Bengals, and even scooping up VERY recently released Safety Lawyer Milloy from the Patriots, just six days before the home opener! The Bills unleashed an embarrassing 31-0 thrashing of the defending Super Bowl champions. However, the week 17 matchup between the divisional rivals, although ending eerily with the same score, would find the Bills at the opposite end of that score. Even though the Bills started like a house of fire in 2003, injuries, inexcusable losses to less talented opponents would catch up with them throughout the year, as the Bills and Pats would head in opposite directions after week 1. The Bills finishing 6-10...the Pats winning a second consecutive Super Bowl. The 2004 campaign began with the hire of offensive guru Mike Mularkey as the Bills new Head Coach. This was supposed to be the spark that put Bledsoe and co. over the hump. Instead, the Bills started 2-5. But a late season surge put the Bills in prime position to get into the postseason. At 9-6, the Bills simply needed to get a victory over the Steelers at Ralph Wilson Stadium and they were in! In fact, Pittsburgh, with their postseason seed already established, played mostly their third stringers against the Bills.And the Bills we still caught flat footed! 2005 brought a year of a youth movement at the quarterback position. The Bills handed the reigns over to Tulane rookie JP Losman. And over the course of the next few years, even though showing glimpses of promise, the game overwhelmed Losman as well as new Head coach and alleged defensive guru, Dick Jauron. 7-9 was seemingly the expectation of the team until 2009 arrived...when the Bills signed a man who was the polar opposite to not only the image of its franchise, but it's fans and city. But at this point, all of the above were willing to do whatever it took to end the playoff drought. IIRC,in the 2nd half of the 2004 season they may have had their best stretch of games (6 game winning streak) during these last 15 years with convincing wins and an offense led by the running of McGahee. Despite the disappointing finale vs the Pitts backups, things were looking up for 2005 but a 3 game losing streak after an opening win sent them on their way to a 5-11 record.
zonabb Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 When the new owner realizes that continuity matters. The constant shuffle trying to find the new hot coach is probably one of the worst characteristics of the last 15+ years. Many here are headhunters, always looking to impart blame immediately on coaching and on scouting. I'd prefer to see Whaley and Rex stay and see what a number of years drafting with the same mindset and systems in place gets you. The equation comes down simply to a QB. The hot new coaching candidate always ends up where? On a team drafting near the top and without a QB. That hot new coach gets fired all the time... Why does he go from can't miss to also ran? Usually a bad QB. The list of coaches who are hot candidates every year is lengthy, they're run out as can't miss saviors and three years later, they're gone. How about Jim Zorn, I looked at Washington first. He was a hot candidate after polishing a turd with Matt Hasselbeck in Seattle. He flamed out in DC after two seasons. Or Jay Gruden now with Washington. He was handed a Tecmo Bowl QB in RGIII and then Cousins, who some here clamor for but it just a mediocre QB. How about Cleveland? Pettine's done. The hot candidates before him died slow deaths without QBs.... Crennel, Mangini, Shurmur. How about the Jets.... Herm Edwards, Mangini, Rex, and certainly Bowles is next because we know what Fitz and they know what Geno is. These are basically off the top of my head, there's more. But the point is clear you can't win in this league without a QB, it just doesn't matter who your coach is, just doesn't. Rex didn't win in NY because the QBs he had sucked. If Rex sucked, why isn't Geno staring over Fitz now? And why is Sanchez only starting for an injured Bradford? You need to find a decent QB if you can't get a franchise QB and take the Bengals approach. Same coach, but the team and systems around a QB and continuity. I also think blaming a QB for missing is misguided. GMs are in tough positions when to comes to QBs. The supply is continually more limited in terms of quality and the pressure to find one (demand) is increasingly high. They overdraft and miss, a lot. The should really just draft one a year not in the first and see what shakes out unless a sure fire franchise guy ends up in your lap. Can't fault Whaley/NIx for trying with Manuel, that's the demands of the league. EJ sucks. But they had to take a guy that year and who did they pass on? Here, let me refresh your memory... Geno, Barkley, Nassib, Glennon and it gets worse from there. They were in a no win situation, had to take one and they all sucked. They would have been roasted for not taking one.
CardinalScotts Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 it will end when the right coach and gm are not required to put together a one year fix....they will be very good next year. quit switching coaches every 2 years
Vinaccia Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 We need Connor Cook. Whether we do it by tanking or trading up oh well. The kid has a killer instinct on the field. That's what you need.
Not at the table Karlos Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I believe I read that Donahoe tried to trade up for Roethlisberger I also remember reading something about this
Beef Jerky Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 If it doesn't end this year... It never will.
Leroi Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 The problem is they do not build a team, they add and subtract, at key positions. Take Watkins for example, days after he was drafted Stevie was out. Mario, rumors we don't need him. He is a Star, flat out releasing him would be devastating. Consistency, we have to keep our coaches, coordinators intact for a long period. Enough with the 3 and out philosophy. The "lifers" and their accounting issues. Ever notice year 3 of coach and they sabotage the roster, no chance of success. These issues will iron out with Pegs, but will take a few more years. Rex is here to stay. Imo
3rdand12 Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) An excellent question... and a song: Great lyrics and i am a huge fan of Jeff Beck. Btw the way it never ends. The problem is they do not build a team, they add and subtract, at key positions. Take Watkins for example, days after he was drafted Stevie was out. Mario, rumors we don't need him. He is a Star, flat out releasing him would be devastating. Consistency, we have to keep our coaches, coordinators intact for a long period. Enough with the 3 and out philosophy. The "lifers" and their accounting issues. Ever notice year 3 of coach and they sabotage the roster, no chance of success. These issues will iron out with Pegs, but will take a few more years. Rex is here to stay. Imo continuity. please. and the maxim of continuous improvement. But jeebus. FIRE SOMEONE. anyone? Edited December 3, 2015 by 3rdand12
DC Tom Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 2004 - Big Ben was there at 9, we stayed put at 11, took Lee Evans then traded the next year's 1st for JP Losman at 22 2005 - No pick, Rodgers drops to 24, 4 picks after the spot we traded the prior year (pick 20) came up 2006 - We have pick 8 and took Whitner, Jay Cutler (say what you will about him, but he was the best QB from this class) went 11 2007 - All the QBs from this class sucked 2008 - Ryan went #1, took McKelvin at pick 11, Flacco goes 18 2009 - Stafford was the only QB who wasn't garbage, went #1 overall 2010 - Every QB = Bad (Bradford was the best) 2011 - Cam went #1, we were 0-8 then decided to win 4 of our last 8. Andy Dalton (he's meh, but winning) went 1 pick after we took Aaron Williams in round 2 2012- Luck went #1, we took TJ Graham at #69, Russell Wilson went #75 2013 - We took EJ, the whole class is garbage 2014 - Bortles went 1 pick before us, passed on Carr/Bridgewater Ever since 2003 we missed chances to draft Eli / Rivers / Big Ben / Alex Smith / Matt Ryan / Stafford / Cam / Luck / Bortles / Jameis / Mariota (2 SB winning QBs) due to winning too many games. We've passed on opportunities to draft Rodgers / Cutler / Flacco / Dalton / Wilson / Carr / Bridgewater (3 SB winning QBs). "Franchise QBs" have been there when we've drafted, we've just done a poor job of evaluating the available talent. All of this ignores the simple basic fact that the Buffalo Bills, for 20 years, have taken in quarterbacks, chewed them up, and spit out train wrecks. There is absolutely no reason to expect that any quarterback the Bills "could have but didn't" draft wouldn't have flamed out as pathetically.
BringBackFergy Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 We finally had the defense right where we wanted it with Jim Schwartz at the helm, now we are fumbling our way to 8-8
JohnC Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 There are all kinds of embarrassing records/moments in sports: The previously winless 0-18 Sixers... The winless Detroit Lions of 2008... The 1993-94 Dallas Mavericks debacle.. Four straight Super Bowl losses (I don't consider this an "embarrassment,by the way, but fans outside of the Bills do)... But when you stand back and look at the last 15 year's of this playoff drought, it's quite astounding that one professional sports team, especially in this day-in-age of salary caps/free agency etc., can miss on as many things as they've missed on in this span... Nobody expected the team to win in 2001, as the Bills at that point were dubbed as being in "salary cap hell", and we went 3-13. But the following year, things seemed on the up and up with the drafting of rookie sensation Mike Williams out if Texas and the acquisition of Drew Bledsoe from the Patriots. I'm sure nobody realistically expected playoffs in 2002, but the Bills did finish at a respectable 8-8, a 5 win swing from the disastrous year before. And the offense was transforming into pure dynamite! 2003 had to be "their year", right?!..The Bills, fresh of an outstanding 2002 offensively, added crucial parts to solidify their defense. Acquiring standout linebacker Takeo Spikes from the Bengals, and even scooping up VERY recently released Safety Lawyer Milloy from the Patriots, just six days before the home opener! The Bills unleashed an embarrassing 31-0 thrashing of the defending Super Bowl champions. However, the week 17 matchup between the divisional rivals, although ending eerily with the same score, would find the Bills at the opposite end of that score. Even though the Bills started like a house of fire in 2003, injuries, inexcusable losses to less talented opponents would catch up with them throughout the year, as the Bills and Pats would head in opposite directions after week 1. The Bills finishing 6-10...the Pats winning a second consecutive Super Bowl. The 2004 campaign began with the hire of offensive guru Mike Mularkey as the Bills new Head Coach. This was supposed to be the spark that put Bledsoe and co. over the hump. Instead, the Bills started 2-5. But a late season surge put the Bills in prime position to get into the postseason. At 9-6, the Bills simply needed to get a victory over the Steelers at Ralph Wilson Stadium and they were in! In fact, Pittsburgh, with their postseason seed already established, played mostly their third stringers against the Bills.And the Bills we still caught flat footed! 2005 brought a year of a youth movement at the quarterback position. The Bills handed the reigns over to Tulane rookie JP Losman. And over the course of the next few years, even though showing glimpses of promise, the game overwhelmed Losman as well as new Head coach and alleged defensive guru, Dick Jauron. 7-9 was seemingly the expectation of the team until 2009 arrived...when the Bills signed a man who was the polar opposite to not only the image of its franchise, but it's fans and city. But at this point, all of the above were willing to do whatever it took to end the playoff drought. Along he came..he had left America's Team for "North America's Team" (whatever the hell that meant). But T.O. was never enough alone to get the Bills in serious contention in his short tenure, and would move on to Cincinnati. In 2011, the Bills would race out to a 3-0 start under yet another new Head coach, Chan Gailey. This was even the year the Bills would end the losing streak to the hated Patriots, overcoming a 21-0 deficit at the Ralph, only to see players drop like flies yet again throughout the year, and another 6-10 season. Gailey would be fired after the 2012 season, and Doug Marrone would take the reigns. But Marrones teams would fair only mildly better. Average quarterback play from rookie EJ Manuel and journeyman backup Kyle Orton did give the Bills a 9-7 2014 record. However, inexcusable losses to the Oakland Raiders and other sub par opponents proved the Bills weren't ready for the postseason. So, here we are. 2015...and the Bills bring aboard the infamous Rex Ryan. A an who not only came from the rival New York Jets, but led them to two consecutive AFC Championship game appearances in the process. Although Ryan's departure from the Jets was awkward, resentful and much publicized, the Bills needed a new attitude! They needed someone to give this defense, that although they led the NFL in sacks in 2014, that extra push to perhaps shoulder the load that a new offense learning a new system under Greg Roman couldn't provide this year. They needed someone to push this defense to become...a bully. To become "the greatest defense of all time". Instead, we sit at 5-6. W seemingly have a coach who has no urgency to beat opponents outside of New Jersey and Foxboro, MA. We have a defense that makes Spencer Ware look like Christian Okoye back in the '90s. We have a quarterback who, although athletically talented, looks lost in his reads every single time he drops back to pass. We have an all world receiver, who's offensive coordinator goes away from him inexplicably after having 100+ yards in one half. We have a team that loses games it should win. (See the Jaguars game in London, see last week after racing to a 10-0 lead in KC). How can a franchise miss on things for this long?! When will this nightmare end for us?!!!... This was a legitimate wildcard playoff team What happened? The organization hired a dope to be its HC. He can't consistently win on the field but he can out dazzle the other HCs at the podium. When you hire a huckster you get a huckster! This organization sabotaged itself with its bad hire.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) The problem is they do not build a team, they add and subtract, at key positions. Take Watkins for example, days after he was drafted Stevie was out. Mario, rumors we don't need him. He is a Star, flat out releasing him would be devastating. Consistency, we have to keep our coaches, coordinators intact for a long period. Enough with the 3 and out philosophy. The "lifers" and their accounting issues. Ever notice year 3 of coach and they sabotage the roster, no chance of success. These issues will iron out with Pegs, but will take a few more years. Rex is here to stay. Imo I agree we need to get players that fit Ryan's scheme. However, I'm not sure if I agree with you on Mario Williams. He doesn't fit Ryan's scheme, and quite frankly doesn't always show up to play. I've never seen a guy with such great career stats fail to show up for so many games. He occasionally has great games where he seems to compile all his stats. Then on other Sunday's he doesn't show up at all. Mario Williams epitomizes this years Bills better than any player as far as I'm concerned. Loads of talent but a lack of heart and killer instinct. He just doesn't play up to what his stats may indicate. I'm sure Texan fans are quite happy to have Watt. The guy never takes plays off, and shows up every week. Edited December 3, 2015 by DriveFor1Outta5
3rdand12 Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 This was a legitimate wildcard playoff team What happened? The organization hired a dope to be its HC. He can't consistently win on the field but he can out dazzle the other HCs at the podium. When you hire a huckster you get a huckster! This organization sabotaged itself with its bad hire. No it wasn't.. I wont argue over this years results. But if you are speaking about Doug Marrone? I must disagree. and sabotage is a strong word. Rebuild might be closer, but not quite correct either
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 Taylor has the 5th best quarterback rating in the NFL as of this week. And he's still learning.
BobbyC81 Posted December 3, 2015 Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) All of this ignores the simple basic fact that the Buffalo Bills, for 20 years, have taken in quarterbacks, chewed them up, and spit out train wrecks. There is absolutely no reason to expect that any quarterback the Bills "could have but didn't" draft wouldn't have flamed out as pathetically. Yep, I often wondered if Joe Montana would've become a Hall of Fame QB if drafted by the Bills in 1979. Same for Tom Brady. Edited December 3, 2015 by LittleJoeCartwright
Recommended Posts