JohnC Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 I'm convinced that ^this is something folks say when they're not really sure what it is they want to criticize about a QB. I say that because it's simply not true most of the time. For example: http://www.highlighthub.com/tyrod-taylor-finds-karlos-williams-for-touchdown-on-tnf-gif/ 1st read: Clay 2nd read: Sammy 3rd read: Karlos for the TD If we're picking apart Tyrod's game, which is reasonable to do, then the first place to start is his relative inability to see the middle of the field. It bears itself out on seam routes, crossing routes, and inward-breaking hot routes that it feels like he hasn't thrown one of all season (I realize he has, it's just so uncommon for him). The second thing that he needs to do more reliably is learn to climb the pocket to safety. Teams are really pushing the edges to keep him from breaking outside, which is leaving a lot of space inside for him to step up; he hasn't been taking it reliably. I'd also like to see him take off and run up the middle on occasion to exploit it. What is ironic is that prior to the season if most of us were asked if we got this current level of qbing would we be satisfied? Most of us would not only say yes but say it emphatically. Prior to the season if anyone asked would you be satisfied if you had a starting qb who can throw accurately, not turn the ball over and with regularity complete some long passes would you be satisfied? Most of us with great enthusiasm would say yes. Are there limitations to his game? Of course. He is still learning (and getting better) at working from the pocket. Is he an elite qb? No. But from a qb standpoint he has exceeded most of our expectations. Let's put things in a wider context. If the buffoonish Rex had our defense playing at last year's level or near it the outlook on this team would be dramatically more positive. In addition, if the defense was playing to its talent level the perspective on how the qb has played would be seen in a much more positive light.
xsoldier54 Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 898 replies to a pure opinion post presented as fact (very common around these parts) declaring that a QB who is by far our best prospect at the position since Kelly 'sucks.' I honestly used to think Bills fans were a bit smarter overall than other fan bases. Definitely more loyal, but smarter as well. It's just not true, unfortunately. The blatant stupidity that rages on this board is incredible. And also embarrassing that many posters here call themselves fellow Bills fans. This place has become more for spewing irrational garbage and baseless venting than engaging in stimulating discussion about the NFL and the Bills. This. Completely agree. I have come to the conclusion that most Bills fans are severely lacking in football IQ. This thread provides ample evidence of that. I really don't want to discuss EJ but some people make it difficult. You want to say EJ sucks then to so does TT to some extent. Did EJ have proper coaching like TT has? I say no. Did EJ have Shady and Karlos in the backfield most of the time? I say no. -------CJ never lived up to his hype and as much as I love Fred, he had injuries as well keeping him off of the field. Both were getting 3 sacks per game on average. Which QB had/has the better Oline? I say TT does. EJ with moron coaches and no consistent stud RB 22.2 ppg TT with proper coaches and a consistent stud RB 23.78 ppg IT's not only PPG that needs to be considered. You can't pull a single statistic and base your entire rating of a QB on that. YOu have to look at the whole picture. Compare all of the stats between EJ and TT as ESPN does with it's total QB rating and see what you come up with. The difference is obvious.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Why does every Bills QB have to be so polarizing? I thought it was just an EJ thing. EJ sucked plain as day but there was a fringe contingent that insisted "we couldn't know yet" and he had this magical upside because he is tall or something. Now, Taylor is a decent starting NFL QB, most everyone agrees with this, no one is deeming him the answer yet but that same fringe contingent is at it in full force once again, this time insisting that he sucks. You would think that everyone could just agree that the guy has exceeded most expectations, he's got some pretty damn good numbers, maybe needs to be more decisive and the jury is still out. I think 99% of us would agree on all that. What are people even arguing about?The answer is obvious: we hyper-analyze every player, looking for any flaw, then we pick at that scab until we convince ourselves they suck. Plus we hate all Bills players because deep down we feel if we got them there must be something wrong with them. But we love other teams players because we usually only see highlights of them. And we always want what we don't have, even if they are terrible. Want proof? How many times have people started threads about getting players like RG3 or Tebow?
Jmsbills Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Let's not make this an EJ vs. TT competition. TT is the starter and is not now nor ever going to be a franchise QB. If you watched him in college at VA Tech, he was ok but not an NFL caliber QB and that is what we have now five years post VA TECH. He is just ok. If good QB's were easy to find everyone would have one - but there are only a few really good ones out there, the rest are just ok some a little better, some a little worse. I can only hope one day we get luck and find a true franchise QB - until then it's QB purgatory.
JohnC Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Bingo. People seem to forget we expected our defense to be lights out this year. Thanks to Rex Ryan its been anything but. Marcel Dareus just signed an expensive contract commensurate with his talent level. Our boisterous HC put him in a position that doesn't maximize his particular talents. The same can be said in the way he has handled Mario Williams who has played much below his previous level. When you have an obtuse HC who tries to outsmart others the outcome is predictable: You end up outsmarting yourself. As I said in a prior post the Jets are a better team without him and we are a diminished team with him. He was given a five year contract! So much for "due diligence" when making a hire.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 I don't think he sucks. I don't think he is consistent enough to elevate an entire team around him, but the Bills haven't had a QB of that caliber in, like, forever at this point.
Reed83HOF Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Marcel Dareus just signed an expensive contract commensurate with his talent level. Our boisterous HC put him in a position that doesn't maximize his particular talents. The same can be said in the way he has handled Mario Williams who has played much below his previous level. When you have an obtuse HC who tries to outsmart others the outcome is predictable: You end up outsmarting yourself. As I said in a prior post the Jets are a better team without him and we are a diminished team with him. He was given a five year contract! So much for "due diligence" when making a hire. The 5 year contract is going to kill us...Like it or not we are stuck with him for at least 2 more seasons (unless we really tank next year). Our only hope is for him to actually improve. I'm not holding my breathe... Edited December 1, 2015 by Reed83HOF
Reed83HOF Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 It's depressing. He's a total joke, and we won't fire him after one year. If **** really goes south next year he will get canned. I'm even doubtful of next year; things going south is like 4 wins. No one should be surprised when half of our starting DL is let go this offseason; good chance Gilmore & Glenn go too when we go after Wilkerson and other Rex friendly LBs. The Pegula's decision to hire Rex and Rex's inability to play to our defense's strengths will set us back 2-3 years. We really could be winning now with our offense and an unbroken D. Not hijacking this thread.... Taylor I think has exceeded everyone's expectation this year. We are not a pass first or pass happy team so it is hard to look at passing yards as a great comparative measure. He does have some flaws, but he is developing and the best we have on the roster. I don't expect we will have anyone better next year either. Seeing our D is going to be rebuilt and we will have some dead money; might as well roll the dice and see if he can develop...
DirtDart Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Taylor had some awesome numbers in the second half. 5-12/ 55 yds. He has had an entire half of almost every game where he falters.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) It's depressing. He's a total joke, and we won't fire him after one year. If **** really goes south next year he will get canned. I really don't think the money owed scares the Pegulas. I do think there is a concern of appearing dysfunctional, going through coaches like Kleenex. But if a REAL blue chip coach (Payton?) were available, Terry & Kim would make it happen and not bat an eye at the money.Taylor had some awesome numbers in the second half. 5-12/ 55 yds. He has had an entire half of almost every game where he falters.But why. Is he missing throws just because or is the protection breaking down. You do know one "drop" was the Hogan catch, right? Edited December 1, 2015 by PromoTheRobot
Reed83HOF Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 I really don't think the money owed scares the Pegulas. I do think there is a concern of appearing dysfunctional, going through coaches like Kleenex. But if a REAL blue chip coach (Payton?) were available, Terry & Kim would make it happen and not bat an eye at the money. It's not about the money at all... Man that is weird to say as a Bills fan
metzelaars_lives Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) What a surprise. I check in today and more of the same. The same exact people who blindly and baselessly defended a QB to no end whose legacy will fall decidedly short of those of Losman and Edwards are on here cherry picking and nitpicking a few negative statistical indicators and then ignoring all the positive stats for a guy who has played nine games as a pro and is playing at a level higher than any Bills QB since Bledsoe. I would ask those people what they saw in Manuel's game through 14 games that led them to remain encouraged about his long term chances and what they see through Taylor's game through 9 games that leave them bitter, cynical and skeptical about him ever developing into a franchise QB. And you can't say "this isn't about EJ" because you were the ones telling everyone that "we couldn't know anything about EJ" through 14 starts and "he had shown flashes" and "had a ceiling." Taylor was a better college QB than Manuel, has certainly shown bigger and better flashes and has played less games. So as far as your analysis of QB's goes, this is very much about EJ. Edited December 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
reddogblitz Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Bledsoe was below average in 2004. The reasons the Bills went 9-7 were an easy schedule, a second ranked defense, and 8 defensive and ST TDs--not Drew Bledsoe. Wins and losses are a bad way to judge Bledsoe's performance, who was a very disappointing player. I was at the game where the Bills trounced the playoff bound Seahawks. So it wasn't all peaches and cream.
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 I'd say it's the "5th year in the league" thing vs. the other guy being in his "first and second year in the league".
metzelaars_lives Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 I was at the game where the Bills trounced the playoff bound Seahawks. So it wasn't all peaches and cream. I was at that game too. It was definitely the best Bills road game I've ever attended.
Maury Ballstein Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Bills lose. Bills lose again. Yay for Tyrod ! Good stats and stuff.
BillsFanM.D. Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 What a surprise. I check in today and more of the same. The same exact people who blindly and baselessly defended a QB to no end whose legacy will fall decidedly short of those of Losman and Edwards are on here cherry picking and nitpicking a few negative statistical indicators and then ignoring all the positive stats for a guy who has played nine games as a pro and is playing at a level higher than any Bills QB since Bledsoe. I had hope for EJ and defended him. I predicted he'd win the job and have a decent year with us making playoffs. I was wrong. Taylor has been very solid. He has deficiencies in his game as well. He, however, has played much better than most here could have ever hoped for. I'm not sure how anyone can look at Taylor and say he hasn't exceeded expectations. He's had us in position to win a lot of games. The team, moreso than the QB alone, has come up short. I also agree with the post upthread detailing his numbers to date. Any of us would have gladly taken those numbers if 'offered' at the start of the season. Stats are stats but they are, at some point, a tool to measure ability. I'm not sure if Taylor will truly fill the void long term.....but he's avoided (for the most part) big mistakes while making his share of big plays. As above, stats clearly don't tell the whole story. In game scenarios and nuance matter. But...this is an opinion board so I'll 'take a stand.' If nothing else, he's shown me (just my view) he's our best option....and I absolutely wanted EJ to succeed.
metzelaars_lives Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) I'd say it's the "5th year in the league" thing vs. the other guy being in his "first and second year in the league". OK fair. There is no question that Taylor is at an advantage vs. Manuel as a rookie. But I think most former players, coaches, etc. would tell you that you're not really getting real experience- especially as a QB- until you're actually thrown to the fire. Taylor has made his very first starts ever this year vs. Manuel last year having already started ten games as a rookie. I think it's a little naïve to think that Taylor has absolutely no room to grow from here and already is exactly what he is. Bills lose. Bills lose again. Yay for Tyrod ! Good stats and stuff. Wonderful contribution. Pats lose on Sunday. Brady 3 TD's and no INT's. Yay for Brady. And you have perfectly illustrated my point! YOU were one of the ones constantly defending Manuel even after he LOST and didn't even have any stats to support his cause! Edited December 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Maury Ballstein Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 OK fair. There is no question that Taylor is at an advantage vs. Manuel as a rookie. But I think most former players, coaches, etc. would tell you that you're not really getting real experience- especially as a QB- until you're actually thrown to the fire. Taylor has made his very first starts ever this year vs. Manuel last year having already started ten games as a rookie. I think it's a little naïve to think that Taylor has absolutely no room to grow from here and already is exactly what he is. Wonderful contribution. Pats lose on Sunday. Brady 3 TD's and no INT's. Yay for Brady. Taylor's amazing. 8-8 here we come.
FireChan Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Taylor's amazing. 8-8 here we come. Sick Watkins catch against NE, amirite? How much did you trumpet SJ13's one-hander against Seattle? Edited December 1, 2015 by FireChan
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