I hate to admit it, but Taylor sucks

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

So has the jury made it's decision?

 

Does Tyrod suck?

 

Overreaction from some who thought TT was great and a "franchise" QB

Overreaction from some who thought TT was a top passer in the league

 

We can toss in a bit of taunting to the overreactions because that is what people do here.

 

OK Tyrod, this should be an up week for you. If not don't play the hero and get carried off on a stretcher.

 

Play a smart game and if need be let EJ play if you are still hurting and in pain throwing the football

[Big Gun]

That is why nobody takes you seriously....your gonna base your opinion on less then a year where the QB has actually been up and down....

I think you need to go back and see what gets you in the hall of fame before talking about whether others "have a clue"

 

because you dont know ****

 

Carson Palmer is a very good qb that has had injury issues....who has not won anything. That does not get you in the hall of fame.

Hmmm... interesting, but I ask what has HOFs Fouts, Moon, Kelly, Tarkington, Marino won? Palmer is 35 playing extremely well on a really good team and most likely has a few years left, barring injury. When he's done, I expect he has over 50K pass yards and well over 300 TD passes, both would be top 10 and more yards than all but Marino and more TDs than all but Marino and Tarkington of his peers who have also won "nothing". I don't know but I would bet if he accomplishes those stats he is in the HOF.

[JohnC]

 

Bridgewater and Carr have yet to be proven to be the answer to their respective teams QB problem. We will see in time with them, just like we are seeing with the "can't fail" Andrew Luck, RGIII, and even Tannehill. I don't think "better than what we have now" is a suitable argument for our QB situation because we would inevitably be in the same spot as those teams that took those "QB Opportunities" - that is not good enough to compete with the elite QB's.

 

re

I disagree with your view on Bridgewater and Carr. Although they are only in their sophomore year they are both the established starters for their respective teams. I'm not suggesting that either one will be an elite qb but they are both legitimate franchise qbs. I would take either one of them as our starting qb.

 

I also disagree on you view on Andrew Luck. He is going to to be an elite qb. He was trying too hard to make plays and he was playing hurt. In my view he is going to be a perennial all-star. He was a worthy top pick in the draft.

[John from Riverside]

I disagree with your view on Bridgewater and Carr. Although they are only in their sophomore year they are both the established starters for their respective teams. I'm not suggesting that either one will be an elite qb but they are both legitimate franchise qbs. I would take either one of them as our starting qb.

 

I also disagree on you view on Andrew Luck. He is going to to be an elite qb. He was trying too hard to make plays and he was playing hurt. In my view he is going to be a perennial all-star. He was a worthy top pick in the draft.

I consider all those QBs to be "hits" and their teams deserve credit for drafting them.

 

But

 

It also points to what a crapshoot the draft is in drafting qbs......in BOTH of those drafts their were qbs taken higher

 

Just once would like to hear the following things said about a qb that we draft right out the gate

 

- Accurate

- Football Smart

- Can make all the throws

[Prickly Pete]

Okay, perhaps I was being a little harsh in singling out Bills fans...but I do think some players are adversely affected by negativity from fans, and I don't believe, as you say, that none of the kids who have started for the Bills over the last 15 years or so, wasn't affected by coaching, and being caught in a poor, losing atmosphere. The fact that none ever want on to have success anywhere else doesn't necessarily prove anything. Most QB's get one shot at becoming a starter...if they don't succeed on that first shot, they are labeled busts, and most bump around from team to team, roster fodder...it is a perception that is tough to shake. I remember hearing Joe Montanna lamenting, once, that so many NFL QB careers never happen, simply because they are the wrong guy, for the wrong team, at the wrong time.

 

I think they all had good shots elsewhere, with teams that were just as anxious to have a starter as the Bills...but they continued to suck.

 

Most teams fall off the map when their good QB is gone, so I don't believe there are enough to go around, and that the Bills (for a variety of reasons) have never had one this whole time.

[enlightener]

Palmer has not won anything yet

 

and he is the ONLY QB on that list that actually got let go by their team.

 

oh and

 

You dont know a damn thing one way or another on how Tyrod is gonna turn out....you dont.

i know like i knew all the other things a year or so earlier than everyone else here. You also said palmer was the only qb "let go". warner and breese werent "let go"? we could have had some real qb's by now. Sorry i hurt your feelings about tyrod, in a year when you agree with me lets agree to have a formal apology and admission that you were wrong. Oh and palmer won alot, alot of these things called "games" . which is how you make the playoffs. Tyrod cant seem to do even that.

 

I don't just see any QBs in the draft (picking where they're picking) that would be worth anything to the Bills for at least two years down the road.

 

Kaep and RGIII have both performed at a high level in the league. I see no reason not to want either being brought into the QB mix. I still think you draft a QB though in rd 3-5 to develop. That way you have Taylor who seems to be your baseline average-below average starter, the FA reclamation project Kaep or RGIII and a rookie. That's a decent 2016 QB scenario IMO.

wow just wow is right, what a ridiculous thought, keep investing more and roster spots on mental midgets with big arms or fast legs. great idea!

[JohnC]

I consider all those QBs to be "hits" and their teams deserve credit for drafting them.

 

But

 

It also points to what a crapshoot the draft is in drafting qbs......in BOTH of those drafts their were qbs taken higher

 

Just once would like to hear the following things said about a qb that we draft right out the gate

 

- Accurate

- Football Smart

- Can make all the throws

When the Bills drafted EJ in the first round of his draft year they were forced to give him enough time to play in order to get a fair assessment. In the mean time better prospects were passed because they were still in the evaluation period. While the Bills organization considered him a good prospect there were teams that didn't rate EJ very high as a prospect. . The irony is that his own coach in college wasn't touting him as a high end pro prospect.

 

In college EJ completed a high percentage of passes but from a pro perspective he wasn't considered an accurate passer. He also didn't possess great qb instincts by a pro level standard. There is no doubt that EJ is a high character person with a good work ethic but when you watch him it is apparent that he doesn't have the intangibles (feel) that are necessary to play that challenging position.

[John from Riverside]

i know like i knew all the other things a year or so earlier than everyone else here. You also said palmer was the only qb "let go". warner and breese werent "let go"? we could have had some real qb's by now. Sorry i hurt your feelings about tyrod, in a year when you agree with me lets agree to have a formal apology and admission that you were wrong. Oh and palmer won alot, alot of these things called "games" . which is how you make the playoffs. Tyrod cant seem to do even that.

wow just wow is right, what a ridiculous thought, keep investing more and roster spots on mental midgets with big arms or fast legs. great idea!

God another know it all that "knows more then everybody else here"

 

You have shown yourself to be a total clown on these boards and you know LESS then the average fan here. Tyrod is in his FIRST STARTING YEAR so yes you look like a total joke. You cant know a year earlier when they guy hasnt even started a year.

 

LOL

When the Bills drafted EJ in the first round of his draft year they were forced to give him enough time to play in order to get a fair assessment. In the mean time better prospects were passed because they were still in the evaluation period. While the Bills organization considered him a good prospect there were teams that didn't rate EJ very high as a prospect. . The irony is that his own coach in college wasn't touting him as a high end pro prospect.

 

In college EJ completed a high percentage of passes but from a pro perspective he wasn't considered an accurate passer. He also didn't possess great qb instincts by a pro level standard. There is no doubt that EJ is a high character person with a good work ethic but when you watch him it is apparent that he doesn't have the intangibles (feel) that are necessary to play that challenging position.

Not disputing any of this

 

Would like to draft a QB that shows the ability to throw receivers open and be "NFL accurate"

[Buftex]

 

I think they all had good shots elsewhere, with teams that were just as anxious to have a starter as the Bills...but they continued to suck.

 

Most teams fall off the map when their good QB is gone, so I don't believe there are enough to go around, and that the Bills (for a variety of reasons) have never had one this whole time.

I guess I missed all those chances that JP and Trent Edwards had with other teams.

 

I agree, there aren't a lot of great QBs out there. But, I also believe that there would be more of them, if teams had the luxury of brining them along over time, rather than plugging them in a franchise saviors. That used to be the norm... now it is a novelty. These guys are all good athletes, but they play in vastly different systems in college...look how many people have been calling Cam Newton a disappointment, or a bust...he is one of the rare guys who got enough time to grow into the job, and now he is playing lights out. There were people, just a season ago, here on TSW, who were saying that he is innacurate, and were comparing him to EJ, in that regards...said he would never be a real NFL QB. Now we see him standing in the pocket, threading needles, reading defenses, and playing at MVP level. I bet very few would have predicted that a year or two ago.

[ko12010]

I guess I missed all those chances that JP and Trent Edwards had with other teams.

 

I agree, there aren't a lot of great QBs out there. But, I also believe that there would be more of them, if teams had the luxury of brining them along over time, rather than plugging them in a franchise saviors. That used to be the norm... now it is a novelty. These guys are all good athletes, but they play in vastly different systems in college...look how many people have been calling Cam Newton a disappointment, or a bust...he is one of the rare guys who got enough time to grow into the job, and now he is playing lights out. There were people, just a season ago, here on TSW, who were saying that he is innacurate, and were comparing him to EJ, in that regards...said he would never be a real NFL QB. Now we see him standing in the pocket, threading needles, reading defenses, and playing at MVP level. I bet very few would have predicted that a year or two ago.

But I thought Kevin Gilbride said Newton isn't accurate?

[reddogblitz]

I think they all had good shots elsewhere, with teams that were just as anxious to have a starter as the Bills...but they continued to suck.

 

None have gone on to any kind of "success", however most have found NFL employment with other teams. Of the ones I remember:

 

Todd Collins - backup for several teams. When teamed with Marty Schottenhiemer in Washington got on a roll and they almost made the playoffs.

 

Flutie - played well in San Diego. Didn't make playoffs. Made 1st dropkick in 60 years or whatever it was for Patsies**.

 

Rob Johnson - Started and played the game where Tampa Bay broke the sub 40 degree jinx. Has SB ring as a TB backup under Gruden.

 

JP - don't think he ever played on another NFL team, but did win the UFL Championship with the Las Vegas Locomotives under HC Jim Cassel.

 

Trent - Bounced around to a few teams. Nick Foles credited him with being a good mentor in his Pro Bowl season.

 

Fitz - 3 other teams have started him at QB with similar results to ours.

 

Cassel - We saw that yesterday.

 

Tarvaris Jackson - Also has a SB ring as backup in Seattle.

 

Tuel Time and Thaddeus Maximus haven't played.

 

Bad Bad Levi Brown - Canada?

 

So not much success, but not all suck either.

 

What other teams have cut QBs that went elsewhere and had success? Guys who were drafted or unknowns? Baltimore with TYrod?

Edited November 28, 2015 by reddogblitz

[Nihilarian]

 

I agree. Although they would need the right coach too. Arians is the master of putting his QB in a position to succeed and Palmer has always been a downfield type player which is a nice fit schematically.

This!

 

Arians was instrumental in Luck getting into the playoffs when he took over from Chuck Pagano in 2013, and one team was smart enough to sign him as their new HC the next year. Now mind you that next season the Cardinals finished 10-6 in the same division with the 13-3 Seahawks, and 12-4 49ers. Those Cardinals were also one of the three teams to beat the Seahawks that year.

 

Lets also not forget that Carson Palmer only played in 6 games last year, and Drew Stanton started 8 games, Ryan Lindley (who?) started in two games. The Cards still managed to finish 11-5.

 

Right now the Cardinals have the #1 offense in yards & Points, and are still good defensively (#14 yards points allowed) after losing Todd Bowles to the jets. It just shows you hire the right guy as HC and it can have an immediate positive impact no matter how good the other teams are in the division.

 

I can see the 8-2 Cardinals in the SB this year, or 11-0 Carolina Panthers. Just sayin!

 

 

OTOH, did the Bills hire the right guy in Ryan, and why did it take ten games to finally see his defense play like it should have from the start? Why did it take 9 games to get the penalty problem under control? Will the special teams coverage units & KR's ever start playing as well as the kickers? Can the starting QB stay healthy, and will we ever see him start throwing over the middle this year?

 

Lastly, this team spent three draft picks on a super star WR, and then doesn't hardly throw to him game after game. Will we ever see Sammy Watkins ever get ten touches in a game?

 

Coaching!

[What a Tuel]

This!

 

Arians was instrumental in Luck getting into the playoffs when he took over from Chuck Pagano in 2013, and one team was smart enough to sign him as their new HC the next year. Now mind you that next season the Cardinals finished 10-6 in the same division with the 13-3 Seahawks, and 12-4 49ers. Those Cardinals were also one of the three teams to beat the Seahawks that year.

 

Lets also not forget that Carson Palmer only played in 6 games last year, and Drew Stanton started 8 games, Ryan Lindley (who?) started in two games. The Cards still managed to finish 11-5.

 

Right now the Cardinals have the #1 offense in yards & Points, and are still good defensively (#14 yards points allowed) after losing Todd Bowles to the jets. It just shows you hire the right guy as HC and it can have an immediate positive impact no matter how good the other teams are in the division.

 

I can see the 8-2 Cardinals in the SB this year, or 11-0 Carolina Panthers. Just sayin!

 

 

OTOH, did the Bills hire the right guy in Ryan, and why did it take ten games to finally see his defense play like it should have from the start? Why did it take 9 games to get the penalty problem under control? Will the special teams coverage units & KR's ever start playing as well as the kickers? Can the starting QB stay healthy, and will we ever see him start throwing over the middle this year?

 

Lastly, this team spent three draft picks on a super star WR, and then doesn't hardly throw to him game after game. Will we ever see Sammy Watkins ever get ten touches in a game?

 

Coaching!

 

Maybe I am just naive, but I have heard a few different places (including Ray Lewis who played for him under Baltimore) make the claim that his defense is complicated and takes a lot to learn. It seems like a cop out, but I don't know why we would hear that excuse from multiple different sources. There has to be some truth to it.

Edited November 28, 2015 by What a Tuel

[John from Riverside]

Hmmm... interesting, but I ask what has HOFs Fouts, Moon, Kelly, Tarkington, Marino won? Palmer is 35 playing extremely well on a really good team and most likely has a few years left, barring injury. When he's done, I expect he has over 50K pass yards and well over 300 TD passes, both would be top 10 and more yards than all but Marino and more TDs than all but Marino and Tarkington of his peers who have also won "nothing". I don't know but I would bet if he accomplishes those stats he is in the HOF.

This is a good point

[Nihilarian]

 

Maybe I am just naive, but I have heard a few different places (including Ray Lewis who played for him under Baltimore) make the claim that his defense is complicated and takes a lot to learn. It seems like a cop out, but I don't know why we would hear that excuse from multiple different sources. There has to be some truth to it.

Its usually the offense that takes so much longer to assimilate, as there are so many more plays to learn.

 

Anyway, it wasn't so much the learning curve as it was the scheme, and that is so obvious in the difference between both the Patriots games. In the first game Ryan had his defense playing a soft cover scheme in which he had the DB's were playing ten yards off the line of scrimmage, and his DT's more involved in gap control then rushing the passer. Then the front four were also dropping back into pass coverage in a zone blitz type scheme. The defense didn't get hardly any pressure on Brady that entire game, and he scorched them for it.

 

From that first game,

 

Ryan's defensive game plan couldn't put pressure on Tom Brady-- the Bills disrupted (a sack, batted ball, passed defense or interception) only 9.8 percent of Brady's dropbacks, a lower rate than in any of the Bills' 2014 games -- and he never seemed to have an effective plan for stopping either Rob Gronkowski or Julian Edelman."

http://espn.go.com/b...defensive-staff

 

 

This last game even without Mario Williams the Bills were going after Brady so much more, and to the tune of...Brady was pressured (hit, sack, or duress) on 20 of his 40 drop backs Monday, his most in a game in the past 7 seasons!!

 

This was the defense we were all expecting from Rex Ryan at the start of the year, and the only thing that changed between the games is the scheme that the team ran.

[Prickly Pete]

None have gone on to any kind of "success", however most have found NFL employment with other teams. Of the ones I remember:

 

Todd Collins - backup for several teams. When teamed with Marty Schottenhiemer in Washington got on a roll and they almost made the playoffs.

 

Flutie - played well in San Diego. Didn't make playoffs. Made 1st dropkick in 60 years or whatever it was for Patsies**.

 

Rob Johnson - Started and played the game where Tampa Bay broke the sub 40 degree jinx. Has SB ring as a TB backup under Gruden.

 

JP - don't think he ever played on another NFL team, but did win the UFL Championship with the Las Vegas Locomotives under HC Jim Cassel.

 

Trent - Bounced around to a few teams. Nick Foles credited him with being a good mentor in his Pro Bowl season.

 

Fitz - 3 other teams have started him at QB with similar results to ours.

 

Cassel - We saw that yesterday.

 

Tarvaris Jackson - Also has a SB ring as backup in Seattle.

 

Tuel Time and Thaddeus Maximus haven't played.

 

Bad Bad Levi Brown - Canada?

 

So not much success, but not all suck either.

 

What other teams have cut QBs that went elsewhere and had success? Guys who were drafted or unknowns? Baltimore with TYrod?

Yes, some of them were good enough to hang on as backups (where they had a chance to develop with a different set of coaches ,and "a new set of impatient fans). None were "good" (maybe Flutie, but I was thinking "post Flutie" which was "15 years ago" technically).

 

None of those guys were gonna lead the Bills to much success. Maybe a wildcard birth ...MAYBE. Maybe they back into the playoffs ala the Browns with Anderson, if things the defense was really really good, for one season, and then back to suck. Maybe.

 

I don't consider any of them some kind of "missed opportunity"....a guy that would have changed the course of the team. Nope.

Edited November 28, 2015 by HoF Watkins

[JohnC]

God another know it all that "knows more then everybody else here"

 

You have shown yourself to be a total clown on these boards and you know LESS then the average fan here. Tyrod is in his FIRST STARTING YEAR so yes you look like a total joke. You cant know a year earlier when they guy hasnt even started a year.

 

LOL

Not disputing any of this

 

Would like to draft a QB that shows the ability to throw receivers open and be "NFL accurate"

When the college season is over the prospects are being ranked keep this qb prospect in mind: Nate Sudfeld from Indiana. He has pro size (6'6", 240 lbs) and played in a pro style offense in college. He'll be moving up the qb ladder as the draft draws near.

 

http://www.iuhoosiers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3720

[PromoTheRobot]

Kaep and RG3 are terrible now. I don't care what they've done years ago if right now they are no good. This team isn't going to be bad enough to be drafting high enough for a true blue chip prospect. You're going to find flaws with just about any QB that drops to the bottom of the 1st round. I don't think the Raiders are upset with Carr or the Vikings regret taking Bridgewater.

Isn't that the complaint with TT? He has flaws and we are ready to give up after 8 starts. But we are willing to draft a middling college quarterback and deal with his flaws?? The wheel goes round and round.

[GG]

Isn't that the complaint with TT? He has flaws and we are ready to give up after 8 starts. But we are willing to draft a middling college quarterback and deal with his flaws?? The wheel goes round and round.

 

Why can't it be both. A big trouble spot was Bills putting all eggs into one QB basket who turned out to be mediocre and in the process they passed over decent Qs.

 

TT is the best prospect the team has had in a long time. But it would be foolish not to draft another prospect next spring.

[CardinalScotts]

have we watched Bridgewater play? he stinks - much much lower than tyrod as a player. Bring in Kaep ? ya the guy Gabbert ripped the starting job from lets bring him in here. Lets let tyrod play another 6 regular season games and a couple playoff games and realize he's pretty good my only concern is durability