John from Riverside Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Bridgewater and Carr were available to us. This franchise could have traded down and still have acquired each of these qb prospects who are going to be entrenched franchise qbs for a long time. Instead the Bills traded up by giving away the following year's first round pick. Without a doubt they selected a premier receiver talent who they can't seem to get the ball to to make use of his sterling skills. Look I get what you are saying here BUT....a. We know this in hindsight b. Whaley thought he had his qb and c. This does not affect how we would fix things GOING FORWARD. I think it would be a good idea to take a QB in this same scenario THIS year rather then a retread behind Tyrod Taylor myslef. Is Taylor the answer at qb? I don't know. He has some good passing abilities and some questions regarding his ability to read defenses. By the end of the season this organization should have a better grasp on what they have at qb. I know this....for all the bitching that some like to do about the kid the fact is he is the best QB we have had under center for a while......he has holes in his game but he also has some real strengths....it is hard to find a QB of even that caliber. My central point is that this franchise has had reasonable opportunities to acquire a good qb prospect. They failed to seize the opportunity when it was presented to them. They invested in EJ and it hasn't worked out. They need to keep at it until the qb issue is resolved because little else matters unless you have a credible starting qb. Fair enough...but that is behind us now. Its about going forward now. I think that some fans (not you but still) just tie everything int he last 15 years together into one big beating and dont realize that GMs, coaches, even ownership have now come and gone. The years cannot be tied togehter if one wants to look at it realistically. everytime an old qb is talked about nobody wants them, like theyre all already over the hill. This was said by many people here on the board of... Kurt Warner Drew Breeze Philip Rivers Carson Palmer and even, Ben rothesberger...when he was having his problems. yet people wanted VICK! because he was younger i guess? well alot of those old guys actually played in or won superbowls. How did Vick turn out? I see now Carson is still a top qb 5 years after leaving cincy and being a has-been. Guess Arizona doesnt mind superbowls with old QB's while we miss the playoffs every year waiting for "the guy" I think that id take an old qb for 2-3 decent years of football, rather than sink or swim with the next rookie. Please figure out a way to get a quality qb next year oh dearest management. I can already see Tyrod will never be a top qb. Never. A good back up though. If we need to give away Mario to get it it done then by all means, I wont miss him not playing the run. Or him not getting his uniform dirty. Palmer has not won anything yet and he is the ONLY QB on that list that actually got let go by their team. oh and You dont know a damn thing one way or another on how Tyrod is gonna turn out....you dont. Edited November 27, 2015 by John from Hemet
Joeziehmer Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 TT is a good Quarterback and Whaley tried ramming EJ down our collective throats. It was a mistake because EJ is not an elite Quarterbacks. It should have cost Whaley his job in the process. Giving up twenty-one points himself to the Jags was the ending of EJ. Anyone who can refute that is either an FSU fan or so deeply in denile they still believe McFumbles is the next Sanders. Palmer has not won anything yet and he is the ONLY QB on that list that actually got let go by their team. oh and You dont know a damn thing one way or another on how Tyrod is gonna turn out....you dont. Palmer has actually turned out pretty well rather funny considering he is a future hall of famer. And, here you are creating future hall of flamer postings.
John from Riverside Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 TT is a good Quarterback and Whaley tried ramming EJ down our collective throats. It was a mistake because EJ is not an elite Quarterbacks. It should have cost Whaley his job in the process. Giving up twenty-one points himself to the Jags was the ending of EJ. Anyone who can refute that is either an FSU fan or so deeply in denile they still believe McFumbles is the next Sanders. Palmer has actually turned out pretty well rather funny considering he is a future hall of famer. And, here you are creating future hall of flamer postings. Carson Palmer is a future hall of famer? Based on what? WHat has he won?
reddogblitz Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Palmer has actually turned out pretty well rather funny considering he is a future hall of famer. And, here you are creating future hall of flamer postings.2 weeks ago Palmer gave up 14 points to the Seahawks. Their GM should be fired and Carson run out of town. Palmer has not won anything yet and he is the ONLY QB on that list that actually got let go by their team. Actually Big Ben and Rivers are the only ones on that list that were NOT let go by thier team. Edited November 27, 2015 by reddogblitz
John from Riverside Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Kurt Warner A shadow of himself by the time he was let go Drew Breeze What? The guy has been with the same team for years......and even with the team in dissaray they did not get rid of him last offseason Philip Rivers Same..... Carson Palmer Never really understood why Cinci did what they did....because the carrot top has not done better for them overall.....but he did have the injuries and even, Ben rothesberger...when he was having his problems.
Maury Ballstein Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Salute to Carson Palmer. He's looking sharp. I thought he was finished when he played for the raiders.
GunnerBill Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Salute to Carson Palmer. He's looking sharp. I thought he was finished when he played for the raiders. Same I was for us going after him when he was on the way out of Cincy but I have to say when the Raiders cut him I thought he was washed up. I think I actually "Bold Predicted" that Drew Stanton would take the starting job by week 10 of the first Arians / Palmer season in Arizona. How idiotic do I look now?
Prickly Pete Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Same I was for us going after him when he was on the way out of Cincy but I have to say when the Raiders cut him I thought he was washed up. I think I actually "Bold Predicted" that Drew Stanton would take the starting job by week 10 of the first Arians / Palmer season in Arizona. How idiotic do I look now? Me too. I thought he was done, but if the Bills had him now, they would be a real contender. He is the guy in all the "hindsighting", that they really missed out on. The guys that they missed in the draft I can give them a pass on, but Palmer should have been brought in for a look. I wonder if he was ever considered by the Bills? Edited November 27, 2015 by HoF Watkins
GunnerBill Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Me too. I thought he was done, but if the Bills had him now, they would be a real contender. I agree. Although they would need the right coach too. Arians is the master of putting his QB in a position to succeed and Palmer has always been a downfield type player which is a nice fit schematically.
Bangarang Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 I don't just see any QBs in the draft (picking where they're picking) that would be worth anything to the Bills for at least two years down the road. Kaep and RGIII have both performed at a high level in the league. I see no reason not to want either being brought into the QB mix. I still think you draft a QB though in rd 3-5 to develop. That way you have Taylor who seems to be your baseline average-below average starter, the FA reclamation project Kaep or RGIII and a rookie. That's a decent 2016 QB scenario IMO. Kaep and RG3 are terrible now. I don't care what they've done years ago if right now they are no good. This team isn't going to be bad enough to be drafting high enough for a true blue chip prospect. You're going to find flaws with just about any QB that drops to the bottom of the 1st round. I don't think the Raiders are upset with Carr or the Vikings regret taking Bridgewater.
What a Tuel Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Bridgewater and Carr were available to us. This franchise could have traded down and still have acquired each of these qb prospects who are going to be entrenched franchise qbs for a long time. Instead the Bills traded up by giving away the following year's first round pick. Without a doubt they selected a premier receiver talent who they can't seem to get the ball to to make use of his sterling skills. Is Taylor the answer at qb? I don't know. He has some good passing abilities and some questions regarding his ability to read defenses. By the end of the season this organization should have a better grasp on what they have at qb. My central point is that this franchise has had reasonable opportunities to acquire a good qb prospect. They failed to seize the opportunity when it was presented to them. They invested in EJ and it hasn't worked out. They need to keep at it until the qb issue is resolved because little else matters unless you have a credible starting qb. Bridgewater and Carr have yet to be proven to be the answer to their respective teams QB problem. We will see in time with them, just like we are seeing with the "can't fail" Andrew Luck, RGIII, and even Tannehill. I don't think "better than what we have now" is a suitable argument for our QB situation because we would inevitably be in the same spot as those teams that took those "QB Opportunities" - that is not good enough to compete with the elite QB's. I think we will really see a major change in the way teams play after we see Roethlisberger (33), the Mannings (39 and 34), Brees (36), Brady (38), Rivers (33), Palmer (35), Romo (35) retire. That is a quarter of the NFL's starting QB's retiring likely in the next 5 years. And that is if QB's like Matt Ryan (30), Flacco (30), Rodgers (31) don't retire sooner rather than later. College football simply can't produce that number of suitable replacements. It isn't going to happen. Now that I look at it like that, maybe we do need a Carr, or a Bridgewater, because they will likely be the "elite" qb's by default.
GunnerBill Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 I think we will really see a major change in the way teams play after we see Roethlisberger (33), the Mannings (39 and 34), Brees (36), Brady (38), Rivers (33), Palmer (35), Romo (35) retire. That is a quarter of the NFL's starting QB's retiring likely in the next 5 years. And that is if QB's like Matt Ryan (30), Flacco (30), Rodgers (31) don't retire sooner rather than later. College football simply can't produce that number of suitable replacements. It isn't going to happen. Now that I look at it like that, maybe we do need a Carr, or a Bridgewater, because they will likely be the "elite" qb's by default. I think this a very good point. However, I do like Carr. I think he can make it. Bridgewater will be a solid starter, Bortles has quietly had himself a pretty nice year and I like the two rookie starters. I liked them both coming out said I'd be happy to take either one... you have to think that from that crop, plus Luck and Wilson there will still be some upper echelon QBs.
Big Gun Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 I don't just see any QBs in the draft (picking where they're picking) that would be worth anything to the Bills for at least two years down the road. Kaep and RGIII have both performed at a high level in the league. I see no reason not to want either being brought into the QB mix. I still think you draft a QB though in rd 3-5 to develop. That way you have Taylor who seems to be your baseline average-below average starter, the FA reclamation project Kaep or RGIII and a rookie. That's a decent 2016 QB scenario IMO. First it was EJ, now you think Kaepernick and or RG3 should be brought in. Wow, just wow. Why on earth would anybody think that might be a good idea. I would have to believe Whaley might also think that is a bad idea. Thank god he is making the decisions.
The Wiz Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Bridgewater and Carr have yet to be proven to be the answer to their respective teams QB problem. We will see in time with them, just like we are seeing with the "can't fail" Andrew Luck, RGIII, and even Tannehill. I don't think "better than what we have now" is a suitable argument for our QB situation because we would inevitably be in the same spot as those teams that took those "QB Opportunities" - that is not good enough to compete with the elite QB's. I think we will really see a major change in the way teams play after we see Roethlisberger (33), the Mannings (39 and 34), Brees (36), Brady (38), Rivers (33), Palmer (35), Romo (35) retire. That is a quarter of the NFL's starting QB's retiring likely in the next 5 years. And that is if QB's like Matt Ryan (30), Flacco (30), Rodgers (31) don't retire sooner rather than later. College football simply can't produce that number of suitable replacements. It isn't going to happen. Now that I look at it like that, maybe we do need a Carr, or a Bridgewater, because they will likely be the "elite" qb's by default. Really like this post. Problem is that there isn't going to be a cutoff date on many of these guys. Really all that matters to us is when Brady calls it quits. I think Peyton is "seeing the writing on the wall" at this point and could be the start of a domino effect but there are still going to be those one of a kind guys that come out of the draft and dominate for a few years (~2-3) and other guys that can cut it (~3-7+ years). The latter are going to be rare to come by, as they usually are, even more, when like you said, college starts to fail to produce quality QB's. Edited November 28, 2015 by The Wiz
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Because its not clear The hell it isnt
Buftex Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 The only thing wrong with this, is that NONE of the ex-Bill QB's have gone on to have success anywhere else. They all have sucked, and it wasn't the fan's, or the coach's fault. Referring to the Bills' fanbase as "impatient" is an insult. They are certainly no more impatient than any other fan base, and probably more patient. Okay, perhaps I was being a little harsh in singling out Bills fans...but I do think some players are adversely affected by negativity from fans, and I don't believe, as you say, that none of the kids who have started for the Bills over the last 15 years or so, wasn't affected by coaching, and being caught in a poor, losing atmosphere. The fact that none ever want on to have success anywhere else doesn't necessarily prove anything. Most QB's get one shot at becoming a starter...if they don't succeed on that first shot, they are labeled busts, and most bump around from team to team, roster fodder...it is a perception that is tough to shake. I remember hearing Joe Montanna lamenting, once, that so many NFL QB careers never happen, simply because they are the wrong guy, for the wrong team, at the wrong time.
Joeziehmer Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 What has Carson won? A lot of respect and more for what he has done with the Cards. I think John has no clue and is a "fan" without a clue.
John from Riverside Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Doing a little rewatch of patriot game - Teams have not shut down Tyrods legs....you know what shuts it down? PENALTIES.....if they dont call the illegal formation call Tyrod picks up that first down upt he middle - We are upset about Tyrod not throwing over the middle....a fair crit....but he did in fact hit woods over the middle to convert that first down.....that way off sideline pass between woods and TT looked to be a miscommunication......TT wanted Woods more to the sideline. - Our kicker gets CRUSHED on what should have been a 15 yard penalty - lots of short stuff....lots of short stuff....would have liked to see us push the ball downfield...the balls are not accurate so much as easily defended - the option handoffs to McCoy are really really telegraphed - Chandler Jones SHOULD have sacked TT....TT shows strength to excape......scrambles....and makes someting of nothing to Woods for a 1st down - Miller goes down...I thought for sure he was done for hte year the way they were treating it.....he wont be - would like to see a dart on the short pass to McCoy instead of so much air - Karlos gets lucky that ball bounces right back to him - Short throws are accurate but immediate tackling by pats - Pats are absolutely not respecting the keeper threat by TT - Then the Hogan non pass interference...COMPLETELY unacceptable...yes TT is late with the ball but if the correct call is made we are at the 10 yard line QBs will OFTEN throw the ball up like that to draw a pass interference call...the defender never looks back for it.....absolute travesty - I REALLY think a couple of QB keepers on the option would have opened up the run game even more.......they were SOOOO playing Shady - bad throw by TT to woods - I know that people want TT throwing over the middle....but when u watch Brady doing it u see just how tough it is....Brady threw some balls that were a microsecond away from being popped up and intercepted - McKelvin was SOOOO bad on special teams in this game.....the bills addressed that immediately after the game. - I am REALLY not liking the option handoffs.....they are soo telegraphed to simply just give it to the back you HAVE to mix in some keepers to keep the D honest. - Long throw to Hogan - On the McCoy throw to the end zone...TT was under pressure....could not even use his whole throwing motion....and STILL drops it in the bucket and should have caught it....and then promptly dropps it.....then Carp doinks the field goal. This to me was the difference in the whole game. (mental note to self....this game is tied 3-3 at this point and we are right in it this was a coming out party this year for the D....but I really didnt like that the D didnt swarm to the ball on the Pats TD......Graham had him....made the receiver stumble......were was the rest of the D you cant see why Rex was upset....his D had pitched nearly a shutout at this point against an offense that just scores all over everybody?) Poorly thrown deep ball to Sammy Been saying it all year......they roll TT out of pocket....makes a short productive throw IMMEDIATELY following that......Tyrod IN THE POCKET......makes a nice throw to Clay......a play called for TT to his comfort zone results in a play well executed from a place that is NOT his comfort zone......DO THIS MORE ROMAN WHich picks up the whole offense resulting in run to tie up the game The whole inadvertant whistle and Rex penalty is just fricken bizaare......why does everyone have to pull out hte rulebook and search in the fine print every time they have to play the pats.....there is no WAY that receiver gets away from Darby. - McCoy is a beast running that ball - Watkins needs to learn the fine art of slowing down for the ball when there is ark on the pass. It is a timing thing and yes Tyrod was off on his throws this game. - Bad pass over the middle by TT to Clay (or was that a high pass to Sammy?) - Disaster by McKelvin resulting in 3 which ended up being precious in this game - short over the middle throw by Tyrod....completely ignoring the facemask on McCoy WTF....and straight to commercial break - Spying TT on the up the middle run Gilmore a stud in this game This team needs to set up its screens better ineligible man downfield? FINALLY get the pass int flag on the throw to Watkins Throw of the middle to Hogan On THIRD AND INCHES.....we run Karlos wide....W.....T.....F TT throws the ball right in the bucket to Hogan...perfect pass then another predictable option handoff to Shady TT starting to throw over the middle a bit more late in the game.....which has been a Roman script to start taking chances late Throws to Gragg.....who totally gets interfered with....no call....well not totally...it was close Down 7.....3.30 to go in the game a lot closer then people thought it was going to be at this point (Tyrod is hurt at this point...holding his shoulder) we get the ball back....cant do anything with it...lose by 7 This wasnt Tyrod's best game.....but I have seen QBs have far worse. Gotta keep it in context that because the game was close and we were running the ball TT's chances were limited. but that is the bills game plan. - - - - -
GunnerBill Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 What has Carson won? A lot of respect and more for what he has done with the Cards. I think John has no clue and is a "fan" without a clue. Carson isn't going to the Hall of Fame though based on his career to this point.... he is right about that. The Hall of very good - sure. But his career thus far is not Canton worthy.
John from Riverside Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 The hell it isnt That is why nobody takes you seriously....your gonna base your opinion on less then a year where the QB has actually been up and down.... What has Carson won? A lot of respect and more for what he has done with the Cards. I think John has no clue and is a "fan" without a clue. I think you need to go back and see what gets you in the hall of fame before talking about whether others "have a clue" because you dont know **** Carson Palmer is a very good qb that has had injury issues....who has not won anything. That does not get you in the hall of fame.
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