BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Before that goes any further, I'm going t assume you're young and should take a momentto look up any historical interactions between Kevin Gilbride and Rex's dad (Buddy). Here is a lovely photo of Rex's pops and Gilbride discussing game strategy on the Houston sideline I'm old enough to have seen Buddy in his prime well before the punch and the punch itself. I wasn't much impressed with Kevin in Buffalo as a coach, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know how to evaluate talent. Edited November 20, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Kelly the Dog Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 It was a double move route to move revis to the outside, and break back inside. Watkins did it beautifully. No need for jump if ball thrown where it should have been. The guy doesn't throw a good deep ball, especially over the middle. I agree with gilbride. Really I was slightly encouraged when he hit karlos over the middle against jets...not a deep strike (more YAC), but at least he went thru his progressions and read the middle of the field correctly. He doesn't throw a good deep ball? On passes of over 30 yards he is 7-15 for over 300 yards and four TDs and 133 passer rating.
Simon Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 I'm old enough to have seen Buddy in his prime well before the punch. OK, just making sure you weren't taking me seriously
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 He doesn't throw a good deep ball? On passes of over 30 yards he is 7-15 for over 300 yards and four TDs and 133 passer rating. um not for nothing but that's as close to 50% as you can get.
Kelly the Dog Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 um not for nothing but that's as close to 50% as you can get. Not for nothing but 50% on passes over 30 in the air is great. And he has no INT. And averaging over 20 yards per attempt. That is great.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Not for nothing but 50% on passes over 30 in the air is great. And he has no INT. And averaging over 20 yards per attempt. That is great. Is it wrong of me to want better? curious where did you get that stat? Edited November 20, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Kelly the Dog Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Is it wrong of me to want better? Nope. Just ignorant.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 OK, just making sure you weren't taking me seriously maybe just a bit but NP Nope. Just ignorant. LOL
BillsFan130 Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Good article, but if anyone knows belichick, they should know that's what he does. Takes away your best strength and makes you play left handed
Rubes Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 I wish there was a way we could take away Brady.
Bocephuz Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Funny since you accept a few examples of 20 yard corner routes as somehow being representative deep balls over the middle of the field accuracy. So your point is specific to his throws over the deep middle and the accurate deep sideline fly routes are irrelevant?
RyanC883 Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 edited - The folks who think TT super fans is playing exceedingly well might not like it. Gilbride remains skeptical in Taylor. “I saw him against the Giants and thought he was awful,” he said. “Against Miami, I thought he looked pretty good. Even on those deep balls to Watkins, it’s not like he threw it on time. He waited, he waited and then, OK, now he threw it. He may be a four-year guy but he’s a first-year guy in terms of getting experience. So much of that position, the great ones, they win with their brain as much as anything else.” Similarities to CN - “Cam’s not a great passer by any stretch,” he said. “He’s awful. He’s not accurate. He’s got a cannon for an arm but he’s not accurate.” Soooo... Did the Bills hire him as a consultant? Perhaps in the Dolphins game TT was waiting for Watkins to become "more open." It looked that way to me being at the game. I'll take TT having the success of CN. In fact, I think TT is a better passer than CN. Although CN appears more durable. Timing can be worked on. TT will continue to improve. Remember, this is his first year as a starter. So far, so good. 5-2, very few mistakes. Needs to read the field more and see when WR's are open.
Nihilarian Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Really liked the article thanks for posting! It wasn't so much that the NY Giants offense was the reason for the wins against the Patriots, as I think it was more because of the defense!! In 2007 the Patriots were undefeated going into the super bowl by going 18-0, and in that run they never failed to score more then 20 points against any team all year. In their first game against the Giant in week 17 they beat them 38-35. The final score of that SB was 17-14, and Steve Spagnuolo was the Giants DC. Spags is back with the Giants this years as DC. Then in 2011 it was Perry Fewell as the Giants DC who held the Patriots to 17 points in a 21-17 win. (Curious to see the Bills lost 38-7 & 56-10 that 2007 season under Jauron.) On a side note I notice that some Bills fans disagree with a super bowl winning offensive coordinators opinion. I just feel if there is one guys opinion on the planet about the offense you might want to believe in... Edited November 20, 2015 by Nihilarian
JohnC Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I think the difference is that it is more repeatable and sustainable if you are having success because you are doing things correctly. If you have success unconventionally, it often isn't sustainable long term (see Kaepernick). I agree with your comments. The point I was making is that he is at a certain stage of his development where although he is not making complete reads he still is making plays for us. I think we both agree that with more playing time he will become more comfortable in the pocket and more adept at reading defenses. Will those traits be at an elite level? Probably not. But that doesn't mean he can't develop those traits to an adequate level. It's obvious he is not a finished product. It's not even guaranteed that he will develop into a long term starting qb. But from what I have seen I believe that he is coming along and in time will be an established starting qb for us. Am I making a wishful projection? Yes. Edited November 20, 2015 by JohnC
Kelly the Dog Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 One of the reasons he is not going to the middle of the field, and he is not going "through his progressions" which is a common complaint, is twofold: 1] He is very careful and doesn't want to make any mistakes so he is not going to throw it over the middle as much right now, until he gets more experience and comfortable. But more importantly, 2] he is such a good scrambler and runner that if his first or second read isn't open, he will take off and then look downfield as he runs. It's the equivalent of going through 1-2 more progressions but he doesn't get credit for any of those plays. I'm not saying he doesn't need to improve throwing in the pocket or using the entire field. He does. But some of the progression criticism is ill-founded because he actually does it on the move when 90% of other QBs have to stay in the pocket. He's still looking for 3-4-5 options.
Bocephuz Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) One of the reasons he is not going to the middle of the field, and he is not going "through his progressions" which is a common complaint, is twofold: 1] He is very careful and doesn't want to make any mistakes so he is not going to throw it over the middle as much right now, until he gets more experience and comfortable. But more importantly, 2] he is such a good scrambler and runner that if his first or second read isn't open, he will take off and then look downfield as he runs. It's the equivalent of going through 1-2 more progressions but he doesn't get credit for any of those plays. I'm not saying he doesn't need to improve throwing in the pocket or using the entire field. He does. But some of the progression criticism is ill-founded because he actually does it on the move when 90% of other QBs have to stay in the pocket. He's still looking for 3-4-5 options. So I think there are two points to consider here.. 1 - He rarely throws deep down the middle of the field. ( could be caution, not going all the way through his progressions etc...) either way.. hopefully he becomes more comfortable and takes more shots in that area. 2 - Since he rarely throws deep down the middle of the field and the sample size is so low... is it reasonable to make a statement that he has poor accuracy on deep middle throws based off of one play in the Jets game that was arguably poorly thrown? Edited November 20, 2015 by Bocephuz
truth on hold Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 So I think there are two points to consider here.. 1 - He rarely throws deep down the middle of the field. ( could be caution, not going all the way through his progressions etc...) either way.. hopefully he becomes more comfortable and takes more shots in that area. 2 - Since he rarely throws deep down the middle of the field and the sample size is so low... is it reasonable to make a statement that he has poor accuracy on deep middle throws based off of one play in the Jets game that was arguably poorly thrown? If the sample size is too low then how can you use data to back up any claim in support of his deep accuracy? I'll accept its about judgment, and stick to my contention hes lacking in over the middle reads and deep ball accuracy, and support that with having the same impression of 2x super bowl winning OC who's consistently gotten the better of the greatest coach of his generation (and perhaps any other)
Nihilarian Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 " He may be a four-year guy but he’s a first-year guy in terms of getting experience. " And he is right as Tyrod is playing his first year in the NFL as the starting QB. He still has a lot to learn, and a lot of growing / developing to do. Still, he is 4-2 as the starter. Starter LeSean McCoy, he said, “is off the charts.” Count on Belichick trying to erase him from the equation. And again he is right as Shady is another version of Barry Sanders. Lets hope that Greg Roman that can break McCoy free, and doesn't ask Tyrod to throw very often. Run the read option enough so that Belichick stacks the box, and then have Taylor hit Sammy, or Clay behind the LBers. I would love to see both McCoy and Karlos in the backfield, and have the line work the counter trey to open up the cutback lanes. Gilbride believes teams can win in 2015 with a run-heavy, smashmouth attack. As do I, as do I. I would rather watch a smash mouth team beat down that Patriots defense all game long so that they can't stand up by the end of the game. They should be bending over holding their knees or hands on hips gasping for air. With two, three tight end formations just pounding the rock all game long, and the Bills have the players to do just that. The only real problem will be if the defense can keep Brady in check, and if not we probably won't see much of the run game.
boater Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) ... Lets hope that Greg Roman that can break McCoy free.... True dat. Also, let's hope with the Patsy's focusing on McCoy, that will introduce a weakness somewhere else on the field to be exploited. Like, could it be a big game for our TEs as the inside attention shifts to McCoy? Edited November 20, 2015 by boater
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 In my opinion people are overrating this article. I don't believe Gilbride has any magic formula for beating Belichick. Being 11-7 head to head is not significant. There are a million other variables involved, including randomness. Kudos to him for not screwing up in a couple Super Bowls and get rings. That's what its all about. That doesn't mean he has the magic bullet. In remain unconvinced, that any one of a number of NFL coordinators, including Roman, aren't aware of same things. I believe in both those wins there were a ton of plays that were a coin flip that bounced the Giants way. Not to mention the defensive effort put forth which probably had more to do with it than anything. Gilbride never struck me as someone who was way ahead of the curve. When he had talent he did alright, when he didn't-he didn't. He was no Bill Walsh. I think people who want a different QB other than Taylor, have latched onto the perceived negative comments and run with it. I'm sure you could find other NFL coordinators who would view it 180 degrees from Gildbride. And, I'm not positive from the article he was only trying to slam TT. He was in effect saying it's a process. It is fine to criticize the QB. Every teams fans do it. It gets a little ridiculous, when people can't wait to jump on to something negative, so they are be perceived to be correct in their own mind. In my opinion, some are not interested in the Bills winning with TT as QB.
Recommended Posts