Skins to sign K. Cousins 17mill yr. how much is TT worth

[metzelaars_lives]

 

Its not that easy. How many times have we seen in the past QB's have a decently good year and then fall of the face of the earth/?Taylor needs to prove more this year and then do it again next year before I even begin a discussion of paying him.

 

Or else your stuck with Matt Flynn or Derek Anderson.

Matt Flynn never had a good year, he had a few good games. Derek Anderson had a great year. How random was that?

[Kirby Jackson]

I disagree with a lot of this. Start with your leadership comment. Why is he considered a great leader right now? I'm not saying that he is or that he isn't, just that there's precious little evidence either way right now. As for aspects of his game that are below average I'd say that his issues going through his progressions and reading defenses is a place where he is below average right now. Plus, as you noted, his height is below the generally accepted minimum (6'1" vs. 6'2").

 

Big arm? Yup. Can make all of the throws? Yup. Mobile? Yup again. But I want to address your comment that the Bills current offense is not built to take full advantage of TT's mobility. I couldn't disagree more. It is relied on too much, if anything. This isn't JT Barrett at Ohio State. TT is listed at 6'1", 215#. If he was better at his progressions - like he needs to be - they'd run him less because of how dangerous it is from a potential injury perspective. At that size it will be difficult for him to last if he continues to take hits. Notably, he has been doing a better job of sliding and otherwise avoiding hits since he's been back from injury.

 

I don't mean to be overly critical of him, but he has important aspects of his game that he needs to improve upon. The Bills need to see at least some improvement in some of those areas before they commit big money to him.

...and it's fine to feel that way as long as we understand what waiting means. If you wait, you are probably talking about doing so at the expense of guys like Woods, Glenn, Bradham, possibly Gilmore. That extra $7M a year and $20M-$25M of guaranteed more that it will cost you is at the direct loss to certain guys. You have to weigh everything and cant simply say "it's been 7 games" and make that decision in a vacuum. If he starts the rest of the year at this level, the Bills will be trying desperately to extend him.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I don't mean to be overly critical of him, but he has important aspects of his game that he needs to improve upon. The Bills need to see at least some improvement in some of those areas before they commit big money to him.

I forgot to mention that he has to improve and avoid costly sacks. 8 in the NE game alone. He's averaging 3 sacks per game.

Edited November 18, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[metzelaars_lives]

 

Even with Gilmore, Incognito, Bradham, Woods, and Glenn to work on?

 

That's a whole lot of negotiating that needs to get done this offseason.

 

I agree that QB would most likely become the top priority, and Glenn and Bradham would be allowed to walk (since we can draft to replace). But I dont think it's that easy to predict just how this will all shake out.

Anyone else starting to think that Gilmore might be a goner with the emergence of Darby? Look, I'd like to keep them both- maybe franchise Gilmore for a year- but long term, there's no way they can tie up big money in two CB's. Rather pay Darby a rookie salary for a few more years still and spend the money elsewhere. Glenn and Incognito are big priorities. Woods is easily replaceable (I'd keep him on the cheap- he's probably not worth much anyway) and Bradham isn't even very good.

[John from Riverside]

Anyone else starting to think that Gilmore might be a goner with the emergence of Darby? Look, I'd like to keep them both- maybe franchise Gilmore for a year- but long term, there's no way they can tie up big money in two CB's. Rather pay Darby a rookie salary for a few more years still and spend the money elsewhere. Glenn and Incognito are big priorities. Woods is easily replaceable (I'd keep him on the cheap- he's probably not worth much anyway) and Bradham isn't even very good.

Nope....Rex needs his corners to make his D scheme work and given what happened with the jets there is no way Rex lets that happen

 

Both Gilmore and Darby are here long term

[26CornerBlitz]

Keep or toss? What to do with pending free agents

The pending free agents of next offseason -- like Kirk Cousins and Greg Hardy -- are shaping their futures today. Gil Brandt names six who must be re-signed and six who can be safely shown the door.

 

[metzelaars_lives]

Nope....Rex needs his corners to make his D scheme work and given what happened with the jets there is no way Rex lets that happen

 

Both Gilmore and Darby are here long term

That's fair- I guess you can justify it by knowing you're getting elite CB play at a rookie salary on the other side for another 2-3 years. Gilmore is going to get overpaid wherever he signs though. And if Gilmore does stay, it's going to have be at the expense of someone else. Perhaps a Mario Williams? I am very much in the camp that they need to re-sign Cordy Glenn and he too is going to be expensive.

Edited November 18, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[John from Riverside]

I honestly dont know what is going to happen to Glenn.....I thought he was a must sign then he turned in a bad last year and appears to have hit his ceiling this year.....

 

Nigel is a gonner......

 

Mario will get restructured

[DrDawkinstein]

That's fair- I guess you can justify it by knowing you're getting elite CB play at a rookie salary on the other side for another 2-3 years. Gilmore is going to get overpaid wherever he signs though. And if Gilmore does stay, it's going to have be at the expense of someone else. Perhaps a Mario Williams? I am very much in the camp that they need to re-sign Cordy Glenn and he too is going to be expensive.

 

If Glenn is going to be expensive then he is gone. And I would not be upset about it. He's not a top LT and not worth the money of a top LT.

 

Mario's deal will get re-done and free up some space while allowing him to stay here.

 

And I dont see Darby being a reason to let Gilmore walk. We need both.

 

Glenn and Bradham are the guys I would let walk. Even though I like Bradham and think he could come around once he gets a better handle on the new system. But given Whaley's track record as the LB guru, he could probably replace Bradham with our 5th round pick next year.

Edited November 18, 2015 by DrDareustein

[metzelaars_lives]

I honestly dont know what is going to happen to Glenn.....I thought he was a must sign then he turned in a bad last year and appears to have hit his ceiling this year.....

 

Nigel is a gonner......

 

Mario will get restructured

Ahh the "C word" again. My understanding is that he's having a pretty good season. Put it this way, franchise left tackles might be the second hardest position to find and secure after QB's (bringing this back to the original conversation). I'd rather stick with a proven above average starting left tackle who has shown an ability to stay healthy than start over with a new one- unless I'm using a first round pick on a left tackle and I don't think they should or would go in that direction.

 

If Glenn is going to be expensive then he is gone. And I would not be upset about it. He's not a top LT and not worth the money of a top LT.

 

Mario's deal will get re-done and free up some space while allowing him to stay here.

 

And I dont see Darby being a reason to let Gilmore walk. We need both.

 

Glenn and Bradham are the guys I would let walk. Even though I like Bradham and think he could come around once he gets a better handle on the new system. But given Whaley's track record as the LB guru, he could probably replace Bradham with our 5th round pick next year.

We disagree about Glenn but are definitely in agreement here. I have no doubt that Whaley could find a 3rd or 4th rounder in next year's draft who could start right away and give you Bradham's production. As far as left tackle though, you let Glenn walk, you must replace him with either a different (and proven) free agent or a 1st or 2nd round pick. Just like not everyone is Rodgers or Brady, similarly, not everyone is Anthony Munoz. Glenn is pretty damn good. And underappreciated around here it seems.

Edited November 18, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[GunnerBill]

Anyone else starting to think that Gilmore might be a goner with the emergence of Darby? Look, I'd like to keep them both- maybe franchise Gilmore for a year- but long term, there's no way they can tie up big money in two CB's. Rather pay Darby a rookie salary for a few more years still and spend the money elsewhere. Glenn and Incognito are big priorities. Woods is easily replaceable (I'd keep him on the cheap- he's probably not worth much anyway) and Bradham isn't even very good.

 

Franchising Gilmore is not an option I don't think. The cap hit next year goes up by franchising him, whereas I am pretty sure you could get it to come down renegotiating for a long term deal. Frankly I want Gilmore to stay and I am pretty sure Rex will be desperately banging the drum to keep him. I think they will be able to work out a pretty reasonable couple of year extension with Incognito and whilst I also want to keep Glenn I am a Gilmore > Glenn guy. If I was getting the 2013 Cory Glenn he would be my top priority but I am not. Whilst he has played solidly this year he is not that dominant left tackle that was in 2013. Add to that what has been said about Rex's scheme and Gilmore is the clear #1 priority.

 

Bradham is good. He is very good, but looks ill suited to this scheme. If he went to Seattle for example I think he would absolutely excel. He needs to go somewhere that plays a disciplined 4-3. Atlanta under Dan Quinn might be a good fit with the Seattle background. Carolina if they think Thomas Davis is getting a bit long in the tooth is another possibility.

 

EDIT: So if Tyrod leads us to the play-offs and needs a long term deal I try and do that keeping his hit lowish the first year. I re-sign Gilmore which lowers his 2016 cap hit and I try and extend Incognito and Glenn. I let Bradham walk, I restructure Mario, restructure Clay's salary into prorated bonus and release McKelvin. If that still doesn't get me where I need to go I have to go to Kyle Williams and tell him I want him to retire a Bill but I can't afford his current salary and see what he says.

Edited November 18, 2015 by GunnerBill

[metzelaars_lives]

Bradham is another Searcy. Good enough to start in this league but Whaley will gladly let someone else overpay for him.

[GunnerBill]

Bradham is another Searcy. Good enough to start in this league but Whaley will gladly let someone else overpay for him.

 

I think he is better that Searcy but needs a scheme that just lets him play downhill and I do think someone else will pay him more than we can.

[stony]

Bradham is another Searcy. Good enough to start in this league but Whaley will gladly let someone else overpay for him.

 

Yup, I'd agree with that. Glenn is another issue. I was firmly in the camp during the preseason that had him packing his bags come seasons end. I've began to change my mind. I think he's been a stud this season.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Cousins always was a good, effective quarterback until he'd make a mistake and loose his confidence and focus. Since he's been starting regularly and has perhaps had some counseling, that's changed. He doesn't crash and burn like he used to. But it's difficult to compare him with TT as they're too different types of quarterbacks. TT's a scrambler with a better arm while Cousins may be a better, more effective pocket passer. One thing both have had to deal with is questionable offensive lines. The fact that they've both been succeeding in that regard is a complement in both cases.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Odds that Taylor holds out next year after we make the playoffs this year? Dude is set to make only $4mil.

This is not a concern.

[DirtDart]

I just saw this one of the football news wires. Kurt Cousins is due to become a free agent and

his coach Gruden wants him signed. one Nfl

source says Cousins could fetch as much as 17 to 20 million per year and a new multi year contract because of the lack of good starters in the NFL and how long it takes for a NFL Rookie QB to develope. So if that is the case then what is Tyrod Taylor worth. Because I feel Tyrod is a much better QB. Wow

Taylor is worth that much? Lol.....

[12Kachy]

TT is worth whatever the Bills payed him when they signed him. He is still under contract and no need to rush to Fitzpatrick, err I mean failure.

[Kirby Jackson]

Taylor is worth that much? Lol.....

What's your guess on the contract that the Bills offer Tyrod? I think that it's after this year it will be something like 4 years and $68M with $25M guaranteed. I would guess that Tyrod's people are looking for 5 years $85M with $40M guaranteed. Edited November 18, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

So I have done what I said I would earlier - I have been back through the last two Washington games (haven't got to the Tampa game yet but I will) and watched every throw Kirk Cousins has made. He reminds me very much of another Quarterback.... more on who later.

 

Here is what I see.

 

- First of all Rob's House was right that the numbers from the New England game undersell him a little. He had 7 drops by receivers in that game and 5 of them were right in their hands to catch including the one on his very first dropback that Garcon spooned up in the air for a pick.

- The Redskins are scheming to his skill set without doubt. I think noodle arm is a tad harsh but for me he certainly appears to lack a bona fide NFL starting Quarterback arm and when he is trying to throw deep he is doing so by putting his whole body into it, everything is moving and that leads to point 3....

- The further down the field he is throwing the more inaccurate he becomes. There is a noticeable difference in the consistency of his ball placement once the ball is travelling more than 7 or 8 yards in the air.

- Where he seems to have taken a step for me from earlier in the year is under pressure. Against the Jets I thought under pressure he just let the ball go too often and hung it up there to be picked and against the Giants my impression was of a guy desperate to get it out quick and forcing it. In the last couple of games I see a Quarterback starting to realise when a play is going downhill and limiting the damage by throwing it away.

- The throws he hits well are all the same - screens and checkdowns to his backs, the shallow crosser (I'd say that is his strongest throw he times them well) and the quick out.

- I watched the Saints game first and then the New England game. Just when I was thinking "there is almost nothing down the field" FOX put up a stat indicating that the Redskins have the fewest receiving plays of 25 yards plus in the whole league... in what remained of that game there was one of that length and against New Orleans they were a 3 I think (2 of which were short catch and runs).

- I only saw two throws in the two games I watched that I class as big boy NFL throws. By that I mean down the field, more than 10 yards in the air into tight coverage where you have to be accurate with the football. One was a deep crosser in the first drive of the 2nd half in New England to Garcon that he dropped perfectly over a DB for Garcon to go up and grab and the other was the second touchdown against the Saints to Crowder running between two defenders at the front of the endzone. They were both excellent and accurate throws into tight windows but they were the only 2 I saw over the course of two games.

- Whilst his numbers against New England undersell him his numbers against New Orleans oversell him. I have checked after watching and his average air yards against the Saints was 3.5 per completion. It was screen, shallow crosser, screen, shallow crosser, all within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. His backs and tight ends made some nice runs after the catch to really give his numbers an impressive shine.

 

I will still go back and watch the Tampa game. Given that they were in a hole he must have taken some more risks and thrown into tight coverage some more and taken shots down the field and they are things I just have not seen from him (or at least not seen them with accuracy) in the now 5 Redskins games I have watched this season. I remain of the view I was earlier - $17million is massively over the top for Kirk Cousins. However, he is the type of QB the Grudens love working with. A game manager who sticks to the script and dinks and dunks down the field. Not someone who is going to improvise and try and make things happen. I made the point earlier that Gruden was a huge advocate of the Benglas drafting Dalton and he is clearly comfortable game planning for that type of QB.

 

There are similarities with Dalton and Tannehill and Alex Smith.... but I don't think Cousins is as accurate down the field as any of those guys and I am not huge fans of any of them.

 

But they are not the Quarterbacks that specifically came to mind watching those two games back to back this evening..... it was someone we all know much better than them. It was Ryan Fitzpatrick. And to me that is what Kirk Cousins is at this moment in time. He is the best backup in the league or the last starting Quarterback you can be at least efficient with. Is there room for growth? Possibly. Do I see anything there to convince me there is enough potential to sink $17m a year in him? No I don't and if I worked for the Redskins Pro-Personnel Department I would be making this point day after day after day.