Cash Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 You simp. It's more than merely about "valuing positions." Whitner...was nothing special with the Bills and got less money than he made as a rookie from the 49'ers. He made the last 3 Pro Bowls so it appears he's improved since he left, but it's likely more the 49'ers' front 7 and then rep. Byrd...was an all-pro with the Bills but has been a disaster for the Saints. He'll be out of football next year. Levitre...was a decent player for the Bills who got ridiculous money from the Titans. Like Byrd was for the Saints, it was a bad move for them. Lynch...didn't do much in Buffalo, was a problem child, and was thought of so little that all the Bills could get for him was a 4th rounder. He admitted he didn't behave like a professional until he went to Seattle. Poz...decent player for the Bills but got crazy money from Jax. Made his first and probably only Pro Bowl a couple years after joining the Jags. And don't bother regaling me with your "I knew so-and-so was going to be good." Everyone's the greatest GM when they have no history to back it up. See, I think this (somewhat) reinforces hashtag's point, but not his/her name-calling. Byrd, Levitre, & Poz all certainly panned out as well or better than could be expected. And all left for too much money. In each case, the Bills were right to let them walk rather than match or beat the offer in question. But at the end of the day, the Bills hit big on 3 second-round picks, but all of them were just 4-year rentals. I think hash's point is that a team shouldn't draft guys in the 1st/2nd round unless they're willing to sign those guys to big 2nd contracts if they pan out. All 3 of those did pan out, but none of them was worth a big 2nd contract. I think things are a little more nuanced than just "only draft big-ticket positions high", but positional value is definitely something that should be taken into account at the top of the draft. And this thread has really highlighted why the Bills have been mediocre or worse for so long: they've had a bizarre run of draft failure, where almost all of their big-ticket picks have been busts, and almost all of their "good" picks have been players at small-ticket positions, many of whom never re-signed with the Bills. Short of just picking all busts, that's really the worst-case scenario for an extended draft run.
Gugny Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 You LITERALLY can't stop writing dumb things. Whitner....been a pro bowl player Byrd.....2 time All Pro Levitre.....105 straight starts Lynch.....All Pro Poz....been a pro bowl player The only ones to disagree with are Spiller and Wood.....one a recent Bill and one still a Bill. They DID NOT pick bad players......they picked players that have for the most part played up to expectations......and the team had LOADS of cap space.......but they didn't value the positions. It's true.....if you need a RB or an OG you are going to find the pickin' good in the first two rounds. The Bills didn't start to rebuild until they STOPPED drafting easily replaced positions in the early rounds. You realize that the Pro Bowl has nothing to do with being good, right? Only one person on your list (Lynch) has proven himself to not be a flash in the pan.
John from Riverside Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 You realize that the Pro Bowl has nothing to do with being good, right? Only one person on your list (Lynch) has proven himself to not be a flash in the pan. That is a matter of opinion....one I dont agree with
GunnerBill Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 That is a matter of opinion....one I dont agree with Yea Poz and Donte have proven themselves "good" players in the league. Great? No. Worth big money? No. But good solid players all the same. Byrd has been a dumpster fire in New Orleans... and Levitre so horrible in Tennessee that he lost his job and was traded after 2 years for a 6th rounder.
Tenhigh Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 "I was ONLY there to ask for directions on how to get AWAY from there!"
BADOLBILZ Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 See, I think this (somewhat) reinforces hashtag's point, but not his/her name-calling. Byrd, Levitre, & Poz all certainly panned out as well or better than could be expected. And all left for too much money. In each case, the Bills were right to let them walk rather than match or beat the offer in question. But at the end of the day, the Bills hit big on 3 second-round picks, but all of them were just 4-year rentals. I think hash's point is that a team shouldn't draft guys in the 1st/2nd round unless they're willing to sign those guys to big 2nd contracts if they pan out. All 3 of those did pan out, but none of them was worth a big 2nd contract. I think things are a little more nuanced than just "only draft big-ticket positions high", but positional value is definitely something that should be taken into account at the top of the draft. And this thread has really highlighted why the Bills have been mediocre or worse for so long: they've had a bizarre run of draft failure, where almost all of their big-ticket picks have been busts, and almost all of their "good" picks have been players at small-ticket positions, many of whom never re-signed with the Bills. Short of just picking all busts, that's really the worst-case scenario for an extended draft run. If you are stacked at key positions you can afford to draft players at lesser positions........but if you do......take prototypes. Ronnie Lott.....not Lil' Donte. If those prototypes aren't there......trade back or get depth for key positions.....like, I don't know.....quarterback?
Nanker Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Not as one sided as Sheppard for Hughes, but I thought trading Greg Bell and picking up Cornelius Bennett was an awfully good trade for the Bills. Sure, but that wasn't exactly the trade. Biscuit cost a couple of draft picks too IIRC. It was a three team trade to boot. You just don't see that happening in the NFL anymore.
3rdand12 Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 just the most awesomest post ever! Even though Whaley was brought in by Nix, he doesn't do business like Nix did at all (very willing to make trades, much more active during the season, not just the good ol' boy big program southern school in the draft, etc.). Plus he brought in his own personnel guys. That, combined with the new ownership of Daddy Warbucks, and the subsequent hiring of Rex Ryan and Greg Roman, makes me believe "Bills history" has very little impact or affect or relationship whatsoever to this team. Whaley has developed his crew for sure. Please dont call El Pegul " daddy warbucks" . as if the Bills are Little Orphan Annie : (
snamsnoops Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Look, I loved Kiko. He had a magic rookie year and I will not bad-mouth him. But watching Shady that night....that one play where on a third and short, when we really needed it, he was met 7 yards before the line of scrimmage. Most times, that's a crippling stop. But he broke free. The man may have run 20 yards total to get 4, but he does it when we need it the most. People who say that running backs are plug and play should ask why Whaley took 20 minutes to negotiate that deal. Shady is a special talent at RB, arguable 2-3 backs in the NFL who could do more for their team in that situation Kiko well ,,, good luck to him.. I don't see him having a long career which is a unfortunate!
Nanker Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Kiko's highlights: http://youtu.be/Hm2ueJW3qLQ Shady's (ColorRush) highlights: http://youtu.be/QqIAhzY87Zc Edited November 19, 2015 by Nanker
Chandler#81 Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Sure, but that wasn't exactly the trade. Biscuit cost a couple of draft picks too IIRC. It was a three team trade to boot. You just don't see that happening in the NFL anymore. Sure, but that wasn't exactly the trade. Biscuit cost a couple of draft picks too IIRC. It was a three team trade to boot. You just don't see that happening in the NFL anymore. Yep. The famous Halloween Trade! With Dickerson going to Indy and getting 2 1sts that busted out. Entman & a LB. Having no 1st Rd pick the next year, we had to 'settle' for Thurman Thomas in the 2nd Round. Good Times!
Nanker Posted November 19, 2015 Posted November 19, 2015 Yep. The famous Halloween Trade! With Dickerson going to Indy and getting 2 1sts that busted out. Entman & a LB. Having no 1st Rd pick the next year, we had to 'settle' for Thurman Thomas in the 2nd Round. Good Times! Indeed they were. Here's to their return very soon!
YoloinOhio Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 LeSean McCoy: 4.7 YPC Kiko Alonso: 1 tackle vs. 42 Tampa Bay rushing attempts today
Boatdrinks Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Yep. The famous Halloween Trade! With Dickerson going to Indy and getting 2 1sts that busted out. Entman & a LB. Having no 1st Rd pick the next year, we had to 'settle' for Thurman Thomas in the 2nd Round. Good Times! Emtmann was in '92 draft I believe. A bit removed from Bennett trade in'87 so I don't think he was a part of that. I think the Bills got Bennett, rams got Greg Bell and draft picks and Indy got Dickerson. The best of those Rams picks was probably Todd Lyght. Bills won that by a mile.
Kelly the Dog Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Emtmann was in '92 draft I believe. A bit removed from Bennett trade in'87 so I don't think he was a part of that. I think the Bills got Bennett, rams got Greg Bell and draft picks and Indy got Dickerson. The best of those Rams picks was probably Todd Lyght. Bills won that by a mile.It definitely worked out good for the Bills. Although we traded Greg Bell, a #1 and two #2s for him. In Sammy Watkins parlance we gave up four #1s and it cost us two more.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 It definitely worked out good for the Bills. Although we traded Greg Bell, a #1 and two #2s for him. In Sammy Watkins parlance we gave up four #1s and it cost us two more. Great trade.......too bad Biscuit didn't quite live up to his HOF talent. Next to Bruce, he was probably the most talented player on the SB rosters but he just didn't have the drive those guys had.
Maury Ballstein Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 LeSean McCoy: 4.7 YPC Kiko Alonso: 1 tackle vs. 42 Tampa Bay rushing attempts today Doug Martin w 8,000 yards rushing vs the almighty Kiko. Where's my kiko is just what we are missing guys at ?
Nanker Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Doug Martin w 8,000 yards rushing vs the almighty Kiko. Where's my kiko is just what we are missing guys at ? Well to be fair, Kiko did have 27 interceptions yesterday and five of those were pick sixes. He also punted 11 times for an average of 83 NET yards. It's all on Kelly's offense there. Kiko's definitely holding up his end of the rainbow fantasy in Philly. Remember, he did hurt his knee so his run stuffing isn't quite up to par yet, but those other gaudy stats kinda make up for it. [/kikofancluboftheuniverse]
YoloinOhio Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Well to be fair, Kiko did have 27 interceptions yesterday and five of those were pick sixes. He also punted 11 times for an average of 83 NET yards. It's all on Kelly's offense there. Kiko's definitely holding up his end of the rainbow fantasy in Philly. Remember, he did hurt his knee so his run stuffing isn't quite up to par yet, but those other gaudy stats kinda make up for it. [/kikofancluboftheuniverse]Lol. Seriously though he does not look explosive at all. The injuries must have really did him in. Too bad as he was fun to watch his rookie year.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Would it really shock anyone if Chip went back to college at the end of this season? I mean he has full control over the football ops in Philly now.
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