Alonso for McCoy

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

We should have played Flutie over Johsnon against Tennesee. No way we would have lost.

[Bill from NYC]

They would be even better with a good qb. Probably the favorites to be national champions. Why can't they recruit an elite level qb prospect instead of those manage the game type qbs? They get what they want at all the other positions.

They have a freshman from California. In practice, he threw a football 70 yards through the uprights and Saban won't let him on the field. He is a big kid but he's skinny.

 

Believe it or not, they might be better next year but they have to replace Henry.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

The trade certainly seems to be in our favor right now.

 

Through most of the offseason, Philly fans supported Chip's GM moves. They started saying that Shady was a primmadonna, and went crazy at the "the good black players" comment. And they were sure that they would be just as good, better even, at running the ball with Murray.

 

Now, we find out that practically every player who leaves felt the same way McCoy did. Alonso has been hurt. Practically every free agent Chip signed has underperformed. This Sunday, Sanchez of all people looked better than Bradford. Chip cut his Pro Bowl guard for not attending optional OTAs, and traded his slot corner in a decimated secondary for a 5th next year. Riley Cooper, who still has a lot of resentment directed at him, got a new contract and has played abysmally.

 

The Eagles are struggling to stay at .500 and Chip has started copping an attitude with the media.

 

Believe me when I say the villagers are growing restless.

[Doc]

I think hashtag's point is that the players themselves were pretty good - hence pointing out that all of them are still active NFL players. The Bills also have a few good examples of correctly prioritizing positions, but poorly identifying players: Aaron Maybin, Mike Williams, JP Losman, and Erik Flowers come to mind as 1st-round picks at big ticket positions who didn't make it. All were out of the league very quickly after leaving the Bills. (I'm one of the last 3-4 EJ semi-believers, but even I'll admit that he's probably going to be on this list in a year or two.) If you want to include DT as a big ticket position (debatable), then you could add Torrell Troup and John McCargo in as well. And since hashtag included WR in the list as well, let's also include James Hardy. Great positional priority for all of these, and all (ostensibly) filled a need to boot, they just weren't good enough players.

 

I agree that BADOL was trying to imply that they're good players because they're still playing in the NFL, but I disagree with that about several of the players. If the Bills thought they were worth keeping, they'd have done so.

[Deranged Rhino]

Even though Whaley was brought in by Nix, he doesn't do business like Nix did at all (very willing to make trades, much more active during the season, not just the good ol' boy big program southern school in the draft, etc.). Plus he brought in his own personnel guys.

 

That, combined with the new ownership of Daddy Warbucks, and the subsequent hiring of Rex Ryan and Greg Roman, makes me believe "Bills history" has very little impact or affect or relationship whatsoever to this team.

 

This is something that a lot of fans have yet to grasp. History with this franchise is just that. With Ralph gone and wholesale changes in the front office and coaching ranks, the "same old Bills" no longer exist, just the "same old Bills fans" who are (justifiably) suffering from 15 years of PTSD. It's easy and reassuring for some fans to fall back on the "this is what they always do" memes, but truthfully no one knows what this new team "always does" because they haven't done much of anything yet. There's no track record to go on, nothing to draw from the past that has any relevance to this current incarnation of the team.

[PromoTheRobot]

Wow. How non lampworthy. Eagles with no McCoy or playmakers might struggle ? Amazing.

 

If you called Seattle, maybe someone would care ?

Maybe you were in a coma over the summer. If so I apologize. But the media were praising Kelly for being so bold, getting rid of all the "wrong" players on his roster. Few questioned him jettisoning McCoy. He's the genius, you know.

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/27/chip-kelly-philadelphia-eagles-offseason-moves

Edited November 17, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[Deranged Rhino]

Maybe you were in a coma over the summer. If so I apologize. But the media were praising Kelly for being so bold, getting rid of all the "wrong" players on his roster. Few questioned him jettisoning McCoy. He's the genius, you know.

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/27/chip-kelly-philadelphia-eagles-offseason-moves

(nsfw)

[Maury Ballstein]

Maybe you were in a coma over the summer. If so I apologize. But the media were praising Kelly for being so bold, getting rid of all the "wrong" players on his roster. Few questioned him jettisoning McCoy. He's the genius, you know.

 

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/27/chip-kelly-philadelphia-eagles-offseason-moves

He's no genius. I knew they would suck too.

 

Doesn't seem that bold.

[Chandler#81]

We should have played Flutie over Johsnon against Tennesee. No way we would have lost.

OMG! Flutie played himself out of the starting line-up. We won games inspite of him. Johnson got us the lead with 16 seconds to play. You must mean lil Dougie should have been playing ST's and would have smelled out the reverse and made the game-saving tackle. Right?

[H2o]

......

[GunnerBill]

In this instance I think that Bado absolutely has a point

 

If you are going to be a good team you have to draft well with your 1st round picks......we have went through so many years of bad 1st round picks it got to the point where you cringe when someone was drafted.......

 

They have been better especially when Whaley took over (I know I know that is debatable) lets just pretend for a second that Sammy Watkins is the player that we are seeing making Grimes and Revis look silly......Marcel...yes....Gilmore....yes......Darby....yes....this does not even take into account 2nd round players which have also been hits....Glenn...yes......Woods...yes......Darby....yes....Kiko....yes

 

but....you can see the transition...you draft better...the team becomes more talented.....the team has a winning record.

 

I agree. But I think eventually we all need to get over the drafting 2000-2010. It was terrible, we all know that... but it is over now. From the first draft board that Buddy and Doug put together in 2011 things have been a lot, lot better. Perfect? No. Still some head scratchers? Sure. But they HAVE focused on those big ticket cornerstone positions and they have EJ apart identified pretty good talent too whilst hitting on enough guys lower down the draft to leave us with a pretty nicely balanced roster. The one thing they haven't done is just about the hardest thing to do..... find us a franchise QB. Maybe we have hit on something with Tyrod... let's see how that plays out... but they should also be looking at the likely 1st and 2nd round QBs very hard this year.

[John from Riverside]

 

I agree. But I think eventually we all need to get over the drafting 2000-2010. It was terrible, we all know that... but it is over now. From the first draft board that Buddy and Doug put together in 2011 things have been a lot, lot better. Perfect? No. Still some head scratchers? Sure. But they HAVE focused on those big ticket cornerstone positions and they have EJ apart identified pretty good talent too whilst hitting on enough guys lower down the draft to leave us with a pretty nicely balanced roster. The one thing they haven't done is just about the hardest thing to do..... find us a franchise QB. Maybe we have hit on something with Tyrod... let's see how that plays out... but they should also be looking at the likely 1st and 2nd round QBs very hard this year.

I know that a lot has been made of the bills possibly drafting Tyrod earlier in his career

 

I am gonna say this...and it is jmo....but I dont think we get THIS Tyrod Taylor if we dont let him simmer on the stove down in Baltimore.....I think because Tyrod is one of the best athletes on the field when he steps on....the bills would have ruined him.

We are not ready for Tyrod Taylor in previous years.....we are ready for him now. Well actually give me another huge wide receiver and better quality OL and I think we are ready for Tyrod....we are seeing it here and there.

[GunnerBill]

I know that a lot has been made of the bills possibly drafting Tyrod earlier in his career

 

I am gonna say this...and it is jmo....but I dont think we get THIS Tyrod Taylor if we dont let him simmer on the stove down in Baltimore.....I think because Tyrod is one of the best athletes on the field when he steps on....the bills would have ruined him.

We are not ready for Tyrod Taylor in previous years.....we are ready for him now. Well actually give me another huge wide receiver and better quality OL and I think we are ready for Tyrod....we are seeing it here and there.

 

I agree.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I agree that BADOL was trying to imply that they're good players because they're still playing in the NFL, but I disagree with that about several of the players. If the Bills thought they were worth keeping, they'd have done so.

 

You LITERALLY can't stop writing dumb things.

 

Whitner....been a pro bowl player

Byrd.....2 time All Pro

Levitre.....105 straight starts

Lynch.....All Pro

Poz....been a pro bowl player

 

The only ones to disagree with are Spiller and Wood.....one a recent Bill and one still a Bill.

 

They DID NOT pick bad players......they picked players that have for the most part played up to expectations......and the team had LOADS of cap space.......but they didn't value the positions.

 

It's true.....if you need a RB or an OG you are going to find the pickin' good in the first two rounds.

 

The Bills didn't start to rebuild until they STOPPED drafting easily replaced positions in the early rounds.

Edited November 18, 2015 by #BADOL

[BillsVet]

The Bills didn't start to rebuild until they STOPPED drafting easily replaced positions in the early rounds.

 

You have to wonder whether the Bills were afraid to take certain positions early.

 

After Mike Williams in '02, they didn't take another OT in the first or second until Glenn in 2012.

 

Heck, at QB they didn't take one in the 1st or 2nd after Losman in '04 until EJ in 2013. 10 draft gaps at those positions is astounding given how teams win in the NFL today.

 

Were they afraid to fail and "found" other positions to address or just that inept so as to not address the position at all?

 

And this occurred over the course of multiple GM's and HC's so it's not like one mindset was in play here. It makes sense they'd avoid the big money positions. Knowing what we know now about how the Bills operated financially it's wouldn't be out of the question to think this was a strategy.

[Saint Doug]

Rule of thumb: if you draft a guy early and he plays at or above expectations.....and he pans out and you won't pay him market rate as a free agent because you don't value that position.....then it was a poor use of a pick.

 

I don't agree with this. The perfect GM is one that perennially drafts quality starters. Great drafting allows you let players go because most players will undoubtedly be overpaid. We see it every off season. "Market rate" doesn't mean your not overpaying either. Byrd was paid "market rate", but was certainly not a wasted pick when we let him go. The best starter on a team is one that is playing like a star on his rookie contract.

 

That said, you try to keep the players that you don't think you'll ever be able to draft again (QB or LT for example). A team would otherwise be wrecked by the cap if you try to keep everyone.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Saint Doug

[FireChan]

I don't agree with this. The perfect GM is one that perennially drafts quality starters. Great drafting allows you let players go because most players will undoubtedly be overpaid. We see it every off season. "Market rate" doesn't mean your not overpaying either. Byrd was paid "market rate", but was certainly not a wasted pick when we let him go. The best starter on a team is one that is playing like a star on his rookie contract.

 

That said, you try to keep the players that you don't think you'll ever be able to draft again (QB or LT for example). A team would otherwise be wrecked by the cap if you try to keep everyone.

Badol is saying you should prioritize positions that you don't think you'll hit again. Hypothetically, drafting a star DT or LT over Byrd (not checking to see if there was one there) would mean that that second round pick would still be filling a big hole on the team today, instead of losing them to FA. Why use a pick on a 3-4 year rental instead of a 10 year cornerstone?

[BADOLBILZ]

 

You have to wonder whether the Bills were afraid to take certain positions early.

 

After Mike Williams in '02, they didn't take another OT in the first or second until Glenn in 2012.

 

Heck, at QB they didn't take one in the 1st or 2nd after Losman in '04 until EJ in 2013. 10 draft gaps at those positions is astounding given how teams win in the NFL today.

 

Were they afraid to fail and "found" other positions to address or just that inept so as to not address the position at all?

 

And this occurred over the course of multiple GM's and HC's so it's not like one mindset was in play here. It makes sense they'd avoid the big money positions. Knowing what we know now about how the Bills operated financially it's wouldn't be out of the question to think this was a strategy.

 

 

When Marv and Jauron entered things got really scary.

 

Tricked by spygate tactics that the Pats used to great advantage in the early 2000's, they believed that the Patriots had created a new formula for winning by buiding a roster of role players.

 

Suddenly Chris Kelsay was good enough.

 

Guys like Peerless Price and Andre Davis were good enough at WR.

 

Players who weren't all-in with their plan were let go.

 

And they spent the next 5 drafts using most of their top picks to replace guys like Milloy, Clements, Fletcher, Spikes, McGahee and then later Dockery and Lynch.

 

Most of those guys did not play positions that normally warranted using very high picks to replace....certainly not when you lack studs at many of the key, big $ positions.

[Doc]

You LITERALLY can't stop writing dumb things.

 

Whitner....been a pro bowl player

Byrd.....2 time All Pro

Levitre.....105 straight starts

Lynch.....All Pro

Poz....been a pro bowl player

 

The only ones to disagree with are Spiller and Wood.....one a recent Bill and one still a Bill.

 

They DID NOT pick bad players......they picked players that have for the most part played up to expectations......and the team had LOADS of cap space.......but they didn't value the positions.

 

It's true.....if you need a RB or an OG you are going to find the pickin' good in the first two rounds.

 

The Bills didn't start to rebuild until they STOPPED drafting easily replaced positions in the early rounds.

 

You simp. It's more than merely about "valuing positions."

 

Whitner...was nothing special with the Bills and got less money than he made as a rookie from the 49'ers. He made the last 3 Pro Bowls so it appears he's improved since he left, but it's likely more the 49'ers' front 7 and then rep.

Byrd...was an all-pro with the Bills but has been a disaster for the Saints. He'll be out of football next year.

Levitre...was a decent player for the Bills who got ridiculous money from the Titans. Like Byrd was for the Saints, it was a bad move for them.

Lynch...didn't do much in Buffalo, was a problem child, and was thought of so little that all the Bills could get for him was a 4th rounder. He admitted he didn't behave like a professional until he went to Seattle.

Poz...decent player for the Bills but got crazy money from Jax. Made his first and probably only Pro Bowl a couple years after joining the Jags.

 

And don't bother regaling me with your "I knew so-and-so was going to be good." Everyone's the greatest GM when they have no history to back it up.

[hondo in seattle]

 

 

Not as one sided as Sheppard for Hughes, but I thought trading Greg Bell and picking up Cornelius Bennett was an awfully good trade for the Bills.