We have seen this story of Fitz play out before...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The difference between Fitz and Taylor is that Taylor is very careful with the ball and rarely throws INT's. The only game where Taylor has had under a 91.3 QB rating this year was the Giants game where he would have been above that if the TD to Clay he threw wasn't called back...

 

Oh, ho, well, there are plenty of differences between Fitz and Taylor. Taylor, for example, has Real Wheels. You can see him on some plays glance back at a pursuing defender, go "Naaaah...not happenin" and look back down the field as he runs. (I wonder if at least a few of his sacks are from the defender being faster than he thinks, or him having hampered legs) He also has a very pretty throwing motion. The point I was trying to make, though, was that scheme/coaching/playcalling has an impact on that "careful with the ball, seldom throw INT" behavior. I think the jury is out on how different they are there.

 

Last year on a run-first team in Houston, Fitz did very nicely on the "careful with the ball, don't throw INTs" benchmark with 8 in 12 games plus 2 fumbles. Projecting a 14 game season, Taylor is on pace for just over 9 this year and 7 fumbles. It's really hard to make a case that's very different QB behavior, in a similar "rely on the RB, run-first" D.

 

The difference, IMHO, is not entirely the QB. It's the type of scheme they're in and the expectations. Gailey used to drive me wild moving away from the run at times/scores where successful running could have caught us up and won us the day, and calling plays as though he had Aaron Rodgers behind center. So far, Roman has been using Taylor not too differently than expected: run, run, run, and throw enough to keep their D honest. If Taylor were playing for Gailey, one might get an unpleasant surprise on the turnover front.

 

This year, under Gailey and being expected at times to carry the team on his arm, Fitz is back on pace for another season where he throws close to 3500 yds. He's also back on pace for a 16 Int season. Gailey really ought to know better - Low Slearner I guess.

[Freddie's Dead]

Fitz didn't lose them the game, Bowles did. The first INT was a PERFECTLY thrown ball into very tight coverage by Gilmore, and Marshall bobbled it right into Graham's hands. On the last INT, the Bills rushed 3 and dropped 8, and even then, Rambo had to go all the way up the ladder to make a great play on another well-thrown ball. Fitz had his problems, but he damn near beat us, and maybe would have if Bowles kicks two field goals. I think we'll still have to beat the Jest here in January to make the playoffs. Don't write them off just yet. Trivia question: Who is the only Bills QB to REALLY (I forgot about the Orton "win" last year - corrected) beat the Patriots in the last 10 years? (I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count).

Edited November 14, 2015 by Freddie's Dead

[eball]

Fitz didn't lose them the game, Bowles did. The first INT was a PERFECTLY thrown ball into very tight coverage by Gilmore, and Marshall bobbled it right into Graham's hands. On the last INT, the Bills rushed 3 and dropped 8, and even then, Rambo had to go all the way up the ladder to make a great play on another well-thrown ball. Fitz had his problems, but he damn near beat us, and maybe would have if Bowles kicks two field goals. I think we'll still have to beat the Jest here in January to make the playoffs. Don't write them off just yet. Trivia question: Who is the only Bills QB to beat the Patriots in the last 10 years? (I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count).

 

The first INT was a POOR DECISION to throw to a well-covered receiver in the hopes Marshall would save his bacon. The second INT was perfect coverage and I agree Fitz had to try to make a play, but it was an easy pick for Rambo. Watch it again -- he didn't climb any ladder (he almost fair-caught it).

 

15 for 34 doesn't lie -- accuracy remains an issue for Fitz.

 

I don't know why Fitz apologists can't simply acknowledge he's a great guy and decent player but he has some significant physical limitations that will prevent him from ever being an above-average NFL QB.

 

The Jets should be running, running, and running some more. If they don't transition to that sort of game plan they will not finish the year above .500.

[Doc]

 

Oh, ho, well, there are plenty of differences between Fitz and Taylor. Taylor, for example, has Real Wheels. You can see him on some plays glance back at a pursuing defender, go "Naaaah...not happenin" and look back down the field as he runs. (I wonder if at least a few of his sacks are from the defender being faster than he thinks, or him having hampered legs) He also has a very pretty throwing motion. The point I was trying to make, though, was that scheme/coaching/playcalling has an impact on that "careful with the ball, seldom throw INT" behavior. I think the jury is out on how different they are there.

 

Last year on a run-first team in Houston, Fitz did very nicely on the "careful with the ball, don't throw INTs" benchmark with 8 in 12 games plus 2 fumbles. Projecting a 14 game season, Taylor is on pace for just over 9 this year and 7 fumbles. It's really hard to make a case that's very different QB behavior, in a similar "rely on the RB, run-first" D.

 

The difference, IMHO, is not entirely the QB. It's the type of scheme they're in and the expectations. Gailey used to drive me wild moving away from the run at times/scores where successful running could have caught us up and won us the day, and calling plays as though he had Aaron Rodgers behind center. So far, Roman has been using Taylor not too differently than expected: run, run, run, and throw enough to keep their D honest. If Taylor were playing for Gailey, one might get an unpleasant surprise on the turnover front.

 

This year, under Gailey and being expected at times to carry the team on his arm, Fitz is back on pace for another season where he throws close to 3500 yds. He's also back on pace for a 16 Int season. Gailey really ought to know better - Low Slearner I guess.

 

Taylor also has much better arm strength. Fitz has to put all his effort behind throwing the ball when not throwing short passes and that decreases his accuracy.

 

Fitz didn't lose them the game, Bowles did. The first INT was a PERFECTLY thrown ball into very tight coverage by Gilmore, and Marshall bobbled it right into Graham's hands. On the last INT, the Bills rushed 3 and dropped 8, and even then, Rambo had to go all the way up the ladder to make a great play on another well-thrown ball. Fitz had his problems, but he damn near beat us, and maybe would have if Bowles kicks two field goals. I think we'll still have to beat the Jest here in January to make the playoffs. Don't write them off just yet. Trivia question: Who is the only Bills QB to beat the Patriots in the last 10 years? (I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count).

 

The INT's were at least partly, if not mostly, Fitz' fault. Both were well-defensed.

[YoloinOhio]

Fitz didn't lose them the game, Bowles did. The first INT was a PERFECTLY thrown ball into very tight coverage by Gilmore, and Marshall bobbled it right into Graham's hands. On the last INT, the Bills rushed 3 and dropped 8, and even then, Rambo had to go all the way up the ladder to make a great play on another well-thrown ball. Fitz had his problems, but he damn near beat us, and maybe would have if Bowles kicks two field goals. I think we'll still have to beat the Jest here in January to make the playoffs. Don't write them off just yet. Trivia question: Who is the only Bills QB to beat the Patriots in the last 10 years? (I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count).

it is never just on one player, or one decision. He is one of the reasons they lost. I don't know why you would need to point to just one reason when there are so many elements to a game. Edited November 14, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Fitz didn't lose them the game, Bowles did. The first INT was a PERFECTLY thrown ball into very tight coverage by Gilmore, and Marshall bobbled it right into Graham's hands. On the last INT, the Bills rushed 3 and dropped 8, and even then, Rambo had to go all the way up the ladder to make a great play on another well-thrown ball. Fitz had his problems, but he damn near beat us, and maybe would have if Bowles kicks two field goals. I think we'll still have to beat the Jest here in January to make the playoffs. Don't write them off just yet. Trivia question: Who is the only Bills QB to beat the Patriots in the last 10 years? (I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count).

 

I know you want us to say Fitz (which is true), but remember Orton beat the Pats last December, so there is more than one. Though that doesn't fit your narrative.

 

Fitz has a lot of skills, but November has been a difficult month for him. The Jets may still make noise, but only if they can get their running game in hear.

[Freddie's Dead]

 

The first INT was a POOR DECISION to throw to a well-covered receiver in the hopes Marshall would save his bacon. The second INT was perfect coverage and I agree Fitz had to try to make a play, but it was an easy pick for Rambo. Watch it again -- he didn't climb any ladder (he almost fair-caught it).

 

15 for 34 doesn't lie -- accuracy remains an issue for Fitz.

 

I don't know why Fitz apologists can't simply acknowledge he's a great guy and decent player but he has some significant physical limitations that will prevent him from ever being an above-average NFL QB.

 

The Jets should be running, running, and running some more. If they don't transition to that sort of game plan they will not finish the year above .500.

That pass to Marshall is the kind of pass that Brady, Manning, etc, throw a lot. But because it's Fitz, it fits the narrative of TBD. I know what Fitz is, but I'm just not willing to pee on his grave as so many here are. I'll have another look at the Rambo INT, I remember him jumping with his arms over his head. Agree also that the Jets abandoned the run early. I did not understand why both teams came out throwing when it was pouring rain at the beginning of the game. Fitz is always better when he has a running game and only passes when necessary. As others pointed out in this thread, Gailey has a big tendency to try to saddle up Fitz which is a huge mistake. I just don't think you can hang this Jets loss on Fitz. He shook off his early woes and dropped some dimes to bring them back (similar to another hated Bills QB in London - I know, EJ sucks and deserves absolutely no credit for the 2nd half comeback against the Jags, but I digress).

 

I know you want us to say Fitz (which is true), but remember Orton beat the Pats last December, so there is more than one. Though that doesn't fit your narrative.

 

Fitz has a lot of skills, but November has been a difficult month for him. The Jets may still make noise, but only if they can get their running game in hear.

We're counting that "win"? Agreed, I was incorrect. I'd actually forgotten about that one. Correcting initial post.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Freddie's Dead

[Doc]

That pass to Marshall is the kind of pass that Brady, Manning, etc, throw a lot. But because it's Fitz, it fits the narrative of TBD. I know what Fitz is, but I'm just not willing to pee on his grave as so many here are. I'll have another look at the Rambo INT, I remember him jumping with his arms over his head. Agree also that the Jets abandoned the run early. I did not understand why both teams came out throwing when it was pouring rain at the beginning of the game. Fitz is always better when he has a running game and only passes when necessary. As others pointed out in this thread, Gailey has a big tendency to try to saddle up Fitz which is a huge mistake. I just don't think you can hang this Jets loss on Fitz. He shook off his early woes and dropped some dimes to bring them back (similar to another hated Bills QB in London - I know, EJ sucks and deserves absolutely no credit for the 2nd half comeback against the Jags, but I digress).

 

Gilmore had position on that first pass. Had Brady or Manning thrown it, it would at least have been a breakup.

 

And the Jets didn't abandon the run. They came out passing and stuck with it. That was likely their gameplan.

[Kelly the Dog]

Gilmore not only had great position but he touched the ball before it got to Marshall. You can see it on the second last replay from the game but not the last one. It was a very ill advised pass although an accurate one.

[benderbender]

I don't know why Fitz apologists can't simply acknowledge he's a great guy and decent player but he has some significant physical limitations that will prevent him from ever being an above-average NFL QB.

 

+1000

[The Big Cat]

It really chaps my ass that all offseason the only thing we heard about the Bills was "yeah but, who's the quarterback?"

 

Now, following his decent start, nobody has looked at the Jets and said, "but if there's one thing we know, it's that Fitz's market ALWAYS normalizes." It's about to. They won't finish better than 9-7, and I think it's exceedingly likely they'll be 8-8, possibly 7-9.

[TheFunPolice]

Somehow the story with Fitzpatrick led teams always ends up the same. It's like a broken record.

 

He wins people over because he plays with ZERO fear. He will throw balls that Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers have no business throwing. Sometimes (even though it's a low percentage pass into triple coverage) it works.

 

But eventually the odds win, as they always do. that's Fitz in a nutshell.

[Doc]

Gilmore not only had great position but he touched the ball before it got to Marshall. You can see it on the second last replay from the game but not the last one. It was a very ill advised pass although an accurate one.

 

There's no question Gilmore broke up the pass. And like I said above, doesn't matter who throws the ball, it's at least a pass breakup.

 

Somehow the story with Fitzpatrick led teams always ends up the same. It's like a broken record.

 

He wins people over because he plays with ZERO fear. He will throw balls that Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers have no business throwing. Sometimes (even though it's a low percentage pass into triple coverage) it works.

 

But eventually the odds win, as they always do. that's Fitz in a nutshell.

 

To me, Fitz is like EJ. He's almost everything you want in a QB, but there's something lacking that prevents them from being the man.

[The Big Cat]

 

There's no question Gilmore broke up the pass. And like I said above, doesn't matter who throws the ball, it's at least a pass breakup.

 

 

To me, Fitz is like EJ. He's almost everything you want in a QB, but there's something lacking that prevents them from being the man.

 

EJ with Fitz's brains/balls or Fitz with EJ's arm/body and you've got yourself a damn fine quarterback.

Edited November 14, 2015 by The Big Cat

[Doc]

EJ with Fitz's brains/balls or Fitz with EJ's arm/body and you've got yourself a damn fine quarterback.

 

Probably.

[The Big Cat]

 

Probably.

 

Okay.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

EJ with Fitz's brains/balls or Fitz with EJ's arm/body and you've got yourself a damn fine quarterback.

Somewhat true. Although Fitz makes terrible decisions all the time which contradict his smarts element. He thinks his arm and his accuracy is better than it is so even though he's got tremendous confidence and guts, he makes poor decisions all the time.

[The Big Cat]

Somewhat true. Although Fitz makes terrible decisions all the time which contradict his smarts element. He thinks his arm and his accuracy is better than it is so even though he's got tremendous confidence and guts, he makes poor decisions all the time.

 

Well, yeah. That's the !@#$ing point. He's got a gunslinger's head but not the arm. Give him the arm, and lord knows what he's capable of.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Well, yeah. That's the !@#$ing point. He's got a gunslinger's head but not the arm. Give him the arm, and lord knows what he's capable of.

I know. The point is that he's not smart on the field sometimes, a lot of times, but the announcers and fans say his strongest suit is his smarts. A LOT of times he's not football smart. I don't think you can just say if his arm was stronger he wouldn't be making bad decisions. He throws into double and triple coverage a lot. And he has brain farts a lot.

[The Big Cat]

I know. The point is that he's not smart on the field sometimes, a lot of times, but the announcers and fans say his strongest suit is his smarts. A LOT of times he's not football smart. I don't think you can just say if his arm was stronger he wouldn't be making bad decisions. He throws into double and triple coverage a lot. And he has brain farts a lot.

 

I'm saying the decision isn't quite as bad when you can ACTUALLY make the throw.