Kelly the Dog Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 Are there coaches who want backups who turn it over and can't control the ball? Yep.
FireChan Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 Well there was that guy in Indy a few years ago. Yep. How could I forget Curtis Painter?
Kelly the Dog Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 How could I forget Curtis Painter? Actually I was just racking my brain trying to come up with a response as dumb as yours was and that was all I could come up with.
FireChan Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 Actually I was just racking my brain trying to come up with a response as dumb as yours was and that was all I could come up with.
Leroi Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 I typed this for the Orton thread but it got locked so I will say it here, in response to Josh being the backup last week... This is all conjecture but it's entirely possible that this is all related to previous reports and rumors about EJ. IIRC, the original report that Cassell was going to be the starter before the preseason games was about Roman. The reports throughout training camp and preseason games before TT was named starter were always "some coaches" preferred Cassel to EJ or preferred him as the starter. Rex, on the other hand, always has effusive praise for EJ, even though he usually builds his guys up. What if all of this was as simple as this: Rex is more aggressive. Roman is more conservative. It was always Roman who preferred Cassel simply because he thought we had a ton of talent and wanted efficiency over big play ability. So this week, on a no practice week, Roman simply said to Rex, "The Jets are banged up. Fitz, Ivory, Decker, Marshall and Mangold are all hindered. Our defense is getting better. It may rain. This is going to be a low scoring game. Josh knows this game plan better than Tyrod does (which is something Roman said). If Taylor goes down, I don't want to risk turnovers I just want to control the ball. EJ is still our backup but just this game lets go with Josh..." And Rex just went with it. It's not dissension with Rex or Whaley. It's just a difference of opinion. I believe, On May 3rd of 2015, the decision that Tyrod would be starter was made. It was a unanamous decision from all coaches. From that day, Cassel became an expensive backup and became expendable. Imo
Kelly the Dog Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 I believe, On May 3rd of 2015, the decision that Tyrod would be starter was made. It was a unanamous decision from all coaches. From that day, Cassel became an expensive backup and became expendable. Imo I agree with that. But it doesn't really affect anything I said. You're peppering me for being salty? That's not very condimentary of you.
3rdand12 Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 I agree with that. But it doesn't really affect anything I said. You're peppering me for being salty? That's not very condimentary of you. That's darned witty KtD.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 Really, it is time to let go. EJ is bad and cost this team at least 1 win. That's not acceptable. Time to move on and find a better backup QB. As Beerball says backup QBs are a dime a dozen and many of them are better than EJ. Good to know, Old School. Which of the many available dime-a-dozen backup QB who are better than EJ do you want the Bills to pick up? Josh Johnson was a QB in Roman's system in SF where they prepared for Bowles' defense. He knew the game plan better on a short week. Really not a big deal. I don't know if it makes any diff but keep in mind Johnson also did a little stint with the Jets this Aug/Sept - might give him a bit of a leg on reading their D?
NoSaint Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 Good to know, Old School. Which of the many available dime-a-dozen backup QB who are better than EJ do you want the Bills to pick up? I don't know if it makes any diff but keep in mind Johnson also did a little stint with the Jets this Aug/Sept - might give him a bit of a leg on reading their D? Not to mention that dime a dozen qbs salary will cost both his own contract plus EJs paycheck. So I'd hope it's an actual upgrade, and not just paying extra to have an interchangeable piece that makes little difference
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 read my reply to Hopeful, it should answer your questions. If not, backup QBs are a dime a dozen. Pray that your starter doesn't miss significant time & that if needed your backup can not lose 1 out of every 3 games. Not interested in relying on prayer. It's a fact, starters get injured, sometimes for several games. See: Cowboys, Steelers, Colts, etc. Relying on prayer = planning to fail Still waiting for an answer to another post - which of these available "dime a dozen" backup QBs do you deem superior to EJ such that they should come in and take his roster spot? asdfasdfasdfasdfasdf (tapping fingers on keyboard waiting) Not to mention that dime a dozen qbs salary will cost both his own contract plus EJs paycheck. So I'd hope it's an actual upgrade, and not just paying extra to have an interchangeable piece that makes little difference Yup! I agree with that. But it doesn't really affect anything I said. You're peppering me for being salty? That's not very condimentary of you. An invertabrate punster I see.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 Puleeeeeeze. Put Ej on the cardinals last year in place of the lindley/qb x/qb x pu pu platter and they would be just fine. We get it. Trust me we do. Ejs the worst qb ever just because. Watch some other teams sometime. FWIW, Lindley was the 3rd string QB. Stanton was the backup and playing really well. I think that is where EJ will be next year. He will be on a roster as a project but not the backup. It will be similar to what the Eagles tried with Tebow.
Beerball Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 Not interested in relying on prayer. It's a fact, starters get injured, sometimes for several games. See: Cowboys, Steelers, Colts, etc. Relying on prayer = planning to fail Still waiting for an answer to another post - which of these available "dime a dozen" backup QBs do you deem superior to EJ such that they should come in and take his roster spot? asdfasdfasdfasdfasdf (tapping fingers on keyboard waiting) You misunderstand my point. There is no good NFL backup QB, there aren't even 31 good starters. If the starter goes down a prayer is all you have. It really doesn't matter who that guy is. I'd throw EJ in with any second/third QB. Look over any who will be available and insert them. Good QBs (EJ isn't one) don't hit the open market.
Kelly the Dog Posted November 14, 2015 Posted November 14, 2015 You misunderstand my point. There is no good NFL backup QB, there aren't even 31 good starters. If the starter goes down a prayer is all you have. It really doesn't matter who that guy is. I'd throw EJ in with any second/third QB. Look over any who will be available and insert them. Good QBs (EJ isn't one) don't hit the open market. Yup. The backup QBs in this league at this time are atrocious. EJ pretty much stinks and he is one of the best backups.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 you can express all the opinions you want, but equating Manuel with Dalton is a silly exercise. I bet I can go back & find a game where Losman or Edwards put up decent numbers compared to the opposing QB. That doesn't make either of them an NFL quarterback. You are unwilling to see the flaws in his game or your logic. He is not a good QB. He will never be a good QB in Buffalo (even as in backup good). I am extremely doubtful that he will be a serviceable backup elsewhere but that is his only hope this ship has sailed the fat lady sang and the bridge is burned. He's a nice guy but a lousy QB (yes, even for a backup he's lousy). I didn't equate the two as equals. I simply stated that in that game EJ had 13 more passing yards and both ended up with a 67% completion ratio. To say he sucks ans won;t ever have an NFL job is a silly exercise. I see his flaws, but I also see his positives. You think one way, I another. That sir is no reason to say I should quit. Yup. The backup QBs in this league at this time are atrocious. EJ pretty much stinks and he is one of the best backups. Our coaches must have their heads up some dark place to not have cut or traded such a failure as EJ by the trade deadline.
Kelly the Dog Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 I didn't equate the two as equals. I simply stated that in that game EJ had 13 more passing yards and both ended up with a 67% completion ratio. To say he sucks ans won;t ever have an NFL job is a silly exercise. I see his flaws, but I also see his positives. You think one way, I another. That sir is no reason to say I should quit. Our coaches must have their heads up some dark place to not have cut or traded such a failure as EJ by the trade deadline. Well I did say "EJ pretty much stinks"
TheFunPolice Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) EJ likely wants out of here because he thinks he wasnt given a fair shot and wants to prove himself. Sure he's being a good sport but this summer I could sense a bit of frustration in him. I would be shocked if he didn't feel this way and was cool being a career backup. He won't be starting here so there's only one way to solve that problem. Edited November 15, 2015 by TheFunPolice
prissythecat Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 I didn't equate the two as equals. I simply stated that in that game EJ had 13 more passing yards and both ended up with a 67% completion ratio. To say he sucks ans won;t ever have an NFL job is a silly exercise. . You actually stated that EJ outplayed Dalton . And that certainly wasn't the case...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 You actually stated that EJ outplayed Dalton . And that certainly wasn't the case... Please allow me to clarify that .. EJ the ever horrible, always will suck, lucky to have a job, loser had 13 more passing yards than Dalton and had the same completion percentage in that game. The stats don't lie. Same passing completion percentage more passing yards
prissythecat Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 Please allow me to clarify that .. EJ the ever horrible, always will suck, lucky to have a job, loser had 13 more passing yards than Dalton and had the same completion percentage in that game. The stats don't lie. Same passing completion percentage more passing yards Yes you're right Ej is horrible But seriously , do you know much about Qb measurement ? Looking at yards and completion percentage on their own doesn't say much about how well a Qb actually played. That's why people like to look at qb rating as well as yards per attempt. For the Cincy game, EJ had 6.26 yards per attempt and an 81.7 rating. Any ypa below 7 yards is pretty darn mediocre. Similarly an 81.7 rating is average to below average. In contrast, Dalton had 7.36 yards per attempt and a 118.6 rating . 7.36 is decent to very good for ypa while 118.6 qb rating is outstanding. So can you tell me again that Ej outplayed Dalton?
Rob's House Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 Because it is a team game, when someone claims a single unit is responsible for the loss, I always assume that means "most responsible." It's an obvious point that everyone else "could've done more." But that has to be taken within reason. Do I expect our defense to hold a team to a net of 7 points? No. Is it reasonable to expect that in the modern NFL? No. If you mapped it out, EJ is to blame for greater than 50% of that loss. And when one player is invalidating the effort of the other 48, you have a big freaking problem. I mean, would anyone rational make a big deal out of Eli "contributing to the loss" because he only threw for 6 TD's against the Saints? Or do you say, "yeah I guess he could've scored more, but maybe the defense could've not allowed Brees to throw 6000 yards and 7TD's." I know which one I agree with. You're missing the bigger point, which is if the defense not only scored points but shut the other team down, the running game was on fire, and the WRs were flawless, EJ might have played well enough to squeak by the worst team in the league. Yup. The backup QBs in this league at this time are atrocious. EJ pretty much stinks and he is one of the best backups. I think that's an overstatement, but he's not the worst 2nd stringer out there IMO. Please allow me to clarify that .. EJ the ever horrible, always will suck, lucky to have a job, loser had 13 more passing yards than Dalton and had the same completion percentage in that game. The stats don't lie. Same passing completion percentage more passing yards Stats are for losers. Dalton moved the ball at will on consistently short fields (many of those short fields were a direct result of EJ) and could have easily racked up more. Comparing head to head passing yards in an individual game to assess QB competency is beyond idiotic.
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