FanDuel and DraftKings Banned in NYS

[Mikie2times]

How is it the same. It's does not matter who wins

the games in real life or who covers the points spread or beats the over and under so how is it the same. Your not betting against the house or casino you play against other contestants. By using statistics. Please get your facts straight. I would not want to think that you are child or 5 year old. It's really not the same at all.

 

I have my "facts" straight. I've ran a sports betting service for a decade, several years with betadvisor.com, and I have the highest ROI of any user with 500 or more selections on pickmonitor.com and it's 100,000's of user profiles. This isn't a mid 50% break even. It's low 60% break even and why is it the same as sports, because it doesn't matter what you call it, vig or rake, the house still takes it's 10% cut as a pleasure for doing business with you. Eventually that 10% will eat up your bankroll. Yes, it's skill based. So is what I did with sports betting. It's skill based for the 1-2% of the population that is willing to spend the time to actually become a +EV player. In doing so, you just try and end up on the right side of a razor thin break even % without variation eating your bankroll alive. Same concept as fantasy, you can use all your skills, but what about variation, randomness, and luck? All exist in either DFS or sports betting, skill is only a word reserved for the very few who are in fact skilled. It really doesn't matter if it's DFS or sports, If you can be +EV in either, long term, damn right you're skilled. You belong to a group of less that 1-2% of the population. A slob rolling out of bed laying $100 against the house on a bet or a $100 in DFS against 100 of +EV Skilled DFS players is not in anyway skilled. Win or lose. He's lucky. Most DFS players are just lucky or unlucky. No different than sports betting. Unless you belong to that 1-2% +EV group of people, you're not skilled in either. The only differential that exists is the UIGEA, written by the federal government, attached to the port security act, never debated on it's own merits, designed to prevent beer league fantasy players from freaking out that they couldn't play fantasy with buddy's on yahoo for a couple bucks. Oliver's analogy of the wolves running thru the door is actually pretty damn accurate.

[Mikie2times]

 

What exactly is it that we're arguing here?

 

1. Does anyone here have any problem whatsoever with someone playing fantasy baseball. If I pay $200 to join a 10 team 5x5 roto league with the ability to win XXX money at the end of the season, is that gambling? Technically it can be considered a form of gambling, though to this point has been perfectly legal pretty much across the board for decades.

 

2. Same scenario as #1, but instead I join the league 1 month into the season (b/c I was lazy to join opening day). Does someone have a problem with that?

 

3. I join a league on fanduel that functions exactly the same way as #1 or #2, with the exception that it ends after 1 week. People obviously have a problem with this.

 

So everyone who's crying about fanduel/draftkings, you're telling me that #1 and #2 should be legal, but #3 should not? At what point is it "ok" in everyone's mind for a fantasy league to be considered legal and not "online gambling"?

 

I can join a football league or baseball league on espn after the season has started and still play for winnings - and it's technically no longer "season-long".

 

I can join a season-long fantasy league, and 5 of my top 7 draftees can all go down to season-long injuries and my team is pretty much done...that doesn't mean that there wasn't "skill" in my draft - it means, like ANYTHING ELSE IN LIFE, things can go array.

 

You can be an expert financial analyst and still make some pretty $hitty stock selections that bomb. Difference between an expert financial analyst and the average Joe is that they'll be right 9 times out of 10 while the average Joe will be right once or twice.

 

So everyone's panties are in a bunch b/c Fanduel/Draftkings are weekly leagues that don't require "skill"? Seems like there's a lot of people here who have tried fanduel/draftkings and have lost pretty consistently. Stop hating.

My problem is with DFS sites getting the red carpet while sports betting sites and poker players get pushed to the curb. If you're good enough at any of them to make money over several thousand of trials your damn right you're skilled. If you're not, you're not skilled. Very few people that engage in any of these 3 activities are actually skilled, yet 1 is allowed to get away with being called skilled and brand itself differently when no difference exists.

[bobobonators]

My problem is with DFS sites getting the red carpet while sports betting sites and poker players get pushed to the curb. If you're good enough at any of them to make money over several thousand of trials your damn right you're skilled. If you're not, you're not skilled. Very few people that engage in any of these 3 activities are actually skilled, yet 1 is allowed to get away with being called skilled and brand itself differently when no difference exists.

I get what you're saying but thats a completely different argument for another day.

 

What we're arguing here is strictly DFS and how they compare to regular fantasy leagues. Not to poker. So back at it:

 

The true only difference between DFS and traditional fantasy is the duration of the league. So if fanduel did month-long leagues would people be ok with that? And why? And who determines exactly how long fantasy leagues should be in order for them to be "legal".

 

To further undermine everyones complaints about fanduel:

 

Espn and cbs and yahoo all allow you to create pick 'em leagues on their websites where you and your friends can PAY to join. These leagues all have season ending payouts. Furthermore, many of these leagues have WEEKLY payouts for the person who wins that week. (My cbs league is $50 to the weekly winner). How is that any worse than fanduel? Its not season-long. And you're technically still gambling. The truth is - its no different at all.

 

So lets get down the REAL reason many people have an issue with fanduel/draftkings:

1. They cant STAND the commercials/marketing

2. They suck at DFS compared to their traditional fantasy leagues and it therefore offends them.

 

And your post kinda addressed ur annoyance with DFS right off the bat with ur "red carpet" comment. It becomes a personal isssue for many bc for whatever reason they cant stand DFS and all of the attention that surrounds it.

[Mikie2times]

I get what you're saying but thats a completely different argument for another day.

 

What we're arguing here is strictly DFS and how they compare to regular fantasy leagues. Not to poker. So back at it:

 

The true only difference between DFS and traditional fantasy is the duration of the league. So if fanduel did month-long leagues would people be ok with that? And why? And who determines exactly how long fantasy leagues should be in order for them to be "legal".

 

To further undermine everyones complaints about fanduel:

 

Espn and cbs and yahoo all allow you to create pick 'em leagues on their websites where you and your friends can PAY to join. These leagues all have season ending payouts. Furthermore, many of these leagues have WEEKLY payouts for the person who wins that week. (My cbs league is $50 to the weekly winner). How is that any worse than fanduel? Its not season-long. And you're technically still gambling. The truth is - its no different at all.

 

So lets get down the REAL reason many people have an issue with fanduel/draftkings:

1. They cant STAND the commercials/marketing

2. They suck at DFS compared to their traditional fantasy leagues and it therefore offends them.

 

And your post kinda addressed ur annoyance with DFS right off the bat with ur "red carpet" comment. It becomes a personal isssue for many bc for whatever reason they cant stand DFS and all of the attention that surrounds it.

Really, it's not that I don't like it. I'm neutral. It's not my preferred game but I'm of the opinion that all 3 should just be regulated. I just don't like how DFS gets treated differently regarding the use if the word skill and that will be the predominant conversation we hear over the next year or two. All evidence is completely lopsided that in poker, sports, or DFS some players have shown that skill applies. They can consistently make money. It's usually not in the glamorous fashion it gets portrayed, but after thousands of trials they have demonstrated that they have an edge. In all 3 the number of people who make up this category is under 5%. If 1 person in a million can beat something does that then mean all the other 999,999 players who also tried to beat the same thing are skilled? I see no distinction between the 3 regardless if the packaging is different. I could see a judge poking holes in the skill conversation. That said, a lot of power behind these sites. Huge business. I think the DFS sites will survive but we will see some changes. Hopefully it brings back that idea of poker and sports. Why do people care what other people do with their money. Yes, some have addictions and it's sad and ruins lives, but the same could be said for countless legal activities.

[bobobonators]

Really, it's not that I don't like it. I'm neutral. It's not my preferred game but I'm of the opinion that all 3 should just be regulated. I just don't like how DFS gets treated differently regarding the use if the word skill and that will be the predominant conversation we hear over the next year or two. All evidence is completely lopsided that in poker, sports, or DFS some players have shown that skill applies. They can consistently make money. It's usually not in the glamorous fashion it gets portrayed, but after thousands of trials they have demonstrated that they have an edge. In all 3 the number of people who make up this category is under 5%. If 1 person in a million can beat something does that then mean all the other 999,999 players who also tried to beat the same thing are skilled? I see no distinction between the 3 regardless if the packaging is different. I could see a judge poking holes in the skill conversation. That said, a lot of power behind these sites. Huge business. I think the DFS sites will survive but we will see some changes. Hopefully it brings back that idea of poker and sports. Why do people care what other people do with their money. Yes, some have addictions and it's sad and ruins lives, but the same could be said for countless legal activities.

I think the reason skill is such a key word is bc its specifically mentioned in the online gambling act.

 

As for some people stating that the online gambling act not being written for what fantasy sports has become: who cares. The only thing that fanduel does differently than traditional fantasy leagues is the duration of the league. Oliver's video is funny and all, but it demonizes DFS by comparing it to a hard illegal drug. Really? So 1/2 a fantasy baseball season is OK to join and win and get $. But a week long fantasy league is so mind-blowing that it has to be illegal.

 

All this is much to do about nothing. If fanduel or draftkings are doing something illegal by having insider information on players, etc that the avg joe doesnt have than penalize them appropirately. But to say that DFS should be illegal while season-long fantasy leagues are perfectly legal is a waste of our society's time. Christ.

 

Before you know it we cant join pick em leagues either: they dont require "skill" to win. Its all luck; chance. ILLEGAL!!!

[Saxum]

I think the reason skill is such a key word is bc its specifically mentioned in the online gambling act.

Actually if you read commentary in role call and other part of legislation it was never intended to legalize this type of gambling - read the comments from those who helped craft the law. If you want the law changed push with it with your legislator but do not forget to donate to reelection fund using your illegal profits; back to the "relabeling" of fantasy football as a "skill sport". P.S. watch out for the paid shrills paid to post in multiple chats, forums, etc trying to state how much they won without proof.

[Freddie's Dead]

For those of you still positing that DFS is on the square, read this: http://deadspin.com/fanduel-told-employees-not-to-win-too-much-money-on-dra-1743814536?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

 

I love the stuff about "try" not to use the fact that you saw someone else's line up to play against them. Either ban DFS employees from playing DFS, or better yet, ban DFS altogether.

[jimmy10]

For those of you still positing that DFS is on the square, read this: http://deadspin.com/fanduel-told-employees-not-to-win-too-much-money-on-dra-1743814536?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

 

I love the stuff about "try" not to use the fact that you saw someone else's line up to play against them. Either ban DFS employees from playing DFS, or better yet, ban DFS altogether.

What a scam. Shut em down.

[17 Josh Allen]

the only scam is your not knowing what your talking about the guys were cleared. Plus fan duel employees never played on Fan Duel they played on other sites. Thats like have Stock brokers who give advise to clients and work all day not letting them

buy there own stocks. Just because you put in some line ups does not mean you are going to win. Those real life players you picked have to do well in there games.

[reddogblitz]

the only scam is your not knowing what your talking about the guys were cleared. Plus fan duel employees never played on Fan Duel they played on other sites. Thats like have Stock brokers who give advise to clients and work all day not letting them

buy there own stocks. Just because you put in some line ups does not mean you are going to win. Those real life players you picked have to do well in there games.

 

Do you work for Fan Duel or Draft Kings by any chance?

[jimmy10]

the only scam is your not knowing what your talking about the guys were cleared. Plus fan duel employees never played on Fan Duel they played on other sites. Thats like have Stock brokers who give advise to clients and work all day not letting them

buy there own stocks. Just because you put in some line ups does not mean you are going to win. Those real life players you picked have to do well in there games.

If that's how you think investing works, then man, have I got some good opportunities for you and all your DFS winnings.

[17 Josh Allen]

Will see what the judge says on Friday

[17 Josh Allen]

NY Attorney General gets his clock cleaned in court by Fan Duel and DraftKing lawers in court today. Judge will rule for temporary injunction in the next week. Looks like this will

go in favor of the fantasy sports industry.

you can read the live blog blow by blow from today's hearing right here.

 

https://rotogrinders.com/threads/live-from-the-dfs-trial-997326

[reddogblitz]

NY Attorney General gets his clock cleaned in court by Fan Duel and DraftKing lawers in court today. Judge will rule for temporary injunction in the next week. Looks like this will

go in favor of the fantasy sports industry.

you can read the live blog blow by blow from today's hearing right here.

 

https://rotogrinders.com/threads/live-from-the-dfs-trial-997326

 

Good news for you and your employer it sounds like.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

When the company puts out a memorandum that ONLY suggest that their employees don’t look at the top 5 winning members and use that data across the street….

 

 

I want no part of it.

the fix is in. You may win, but the top $ goes to those with inside information

[jimmy10]

 

Good news for you and your employer it sounds like.

He does sound like a paid message board shill, doesn't he?

 

With all the money spent on advertising by these sites, I have no doubt they are active in the astroturfing world.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

 

 

the fix is in. You may win, but the top $ goes to those with inside information

91% of the winnings go to 1.3% of the players.

Edited November 25, 2015 by jimmy10

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Ban it or don't - I honestly dont care. However I don't play, because I realize that it is entirely luck-based. Sure there can be skill involved in picking a lineup, but i can just pick a random lineup i saw someone else is using and still beat you.

 

Not to mention, there are probably hundreds of people doing this for a living, and they're probably really good at it. And they probably play lineups in tons of contests.

 

Oh and for the "its skill based" argument, why are the commercials designed to tell me that I can win? I'm not skilled...? Am i?

 

If it's legal, just put more regulation into it. Look into the winners a bit, etc. I for one think online poker should be legal too. The reason it isn't, was most likely cheaters (and not greasing the right politicians).

Edited November 25, 2015 by dneveu

[Beef Jerky]

Ban it or don't - I honestly dont care. However I don't play, because I realize that it is entirely luck-based. Sure there can be skill involved in picking a lineup, but i can just pick a random lineup i saw someone else is using and still beat you.

 

Not to mention, there are probably hundreds of people doing this for a living, and they're probably really good at it. And they probably play lineups in tons of contests.

 

Oh and for the "its skill based" argument, why are the commercials designed to tell me that I can win? I'm not skilled...? Am i?

How do you see the lineup someone else picks?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

How do you see the lineup someone else picks?

 

I mean just random ones that fantasy "pros" etc. post online.

[What a Tuel]

91% of the winnings go to 1.3% of the players.

 

I believe that was quoted by John Oliver in his Last Week Tonight episode and was only referring to the first half of the MLB season. I haven't seen any other stats of that kind, but if anyone has them I would be interesting in taking a look!