section122 Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 Eh I keep winning and am playing with house money. Luck/skill/gambling? I don't really care lol. The only reason most people care is because of the advertising. If season long is legal then daily has to be legal. There is absolutely no difference.
What a Tuel Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Eh I keep winning and am playing with house money. Luck/skill/gambling? I don't really care lol. The only reason most people care is because of the advertising. If season long is legal then daily has to be legal. There is absolutely no difference. There is a lot of difference. Season long fantasy is a 4 month long investment and you may be rewarded for your effort in the end. Daily fantasy is dumping money on Sunday, and regretting it when they lose on Monday. Too much money has been changing hands in an unregulated system. This is why it has gathered government attention. Gambling laws are not there to prevent gambling, they are there to prevent the abuse that results from reckless gambling. I know, I know, state lottery, indian casinos, etc but that is the reason hypocritical or not. Edited November 25, 2015 by What a Tuel
17 Josh Allen Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) You just plain don't get it. Playing season long fantasy sports is more like gambling then playing daily fantasy sports that takes more skill. Your stuck with your team in season long, its harder to make adjustments and win, so who ever you draft your sort of stuck with them unless you trade or release them. If you get season ending injuries to your players it can kill your chances of winning anything. Trust me this is coming from a guy that played in season long fantasy football leagues with my fellow workers for 22 years and I won 8 championships. Some years I had many season ending injuries to my players and I was basically screwed and my team did not make the playoffs. In daily Fantasy Football you don't have to worry about season ending Injuries because you just don't select those players when you construct your line-ups. Also in season long fantasy football you can't have the same players as your opponent when you play but in daily it's possible to have some of the same players. Everyone starts with a blank slate. Some people compare it to poker but it's not really a good comparison. In poker your dealt random cards from a deck of cards so right from the start your starting with unknown or random event you may be delt good cards you might not be delt good cards. Then you adjust and bet as you discard cards or wait for cards on the flop. Poker requires strategy and how you play as new cards are delt or flopped and what your opponent has showing plus there is bluffing. You can win in poker even with bad hands if your good at bluffing. At the start of daily fantasy football you have zero players you have access to every player in the league based on a salary cap of $60,000. All contestants start from the same spot with zero players and they get to pick there team. Remember in poker your dealt random cards from deck of cards. So if I was to go to Fan duel and they gave me a quick pick of players like the NYS lottery this would be considered gambling. But this is where the skill comes in of line up construction. You must look at the players current injury status on how well he has been playing lately. Injuries to the people he plays with Offensive line, QB ect, ect. So if you look at the San Diego Chargers Phillip Rivers he was a good guy to play earlier in the year he was scoring mega points in daily fantasy. not so much anymore, all his receivers and offense linemen are injured. If you had him as your #1 QB in season long your screwed. You also look at who will be guarding them. What is the scheme to try and stop them. So yesterday you had Carolinas Panthers top corner pretty much shut down Dallas Cowboys Dez Bryant, Dez was coming of a injury and has been playing with a bulky foot meaning he's running slower. Panthers have a awesome pass rush so you need to target a Dallas wide out that runs quick short routs. So Cole Beasley who in fact scored Dallas only touchdown was the correct wide out to select in daily fantasy if you were going to select a wide out from the Cowboys team. In fact Beasley was wide open for a 2nd TD at the end the game by 10 yards but Matt Cassell missed him. So as you can see it's more strategy based and requires a lot of work and thinking to make good lineups. Can you image playing a head to head against me, that has put in 10 hours of study against a quick pick lineup that you might get from fan duel if they had that like the NYS lottery or even like some of you guys that just play season long and are stuck with deciding who to start on your roster 21 players that you drafted. In daily your roster is every player in the NFL so it takes a lot more work to compete and do well. The skill of daily fantasy football is in the construction of your line-up decisions, this part is real and it takes hours of work if you want to do well. Think about how much time you spend thinking about the 21 guys on your roster if you play season long fantasy football your thinking about all week leading up to your game who your going to start and what are the match ups and the weather and injury reports and so on. Then think about if your roster was every player in the NFL. In daily fantasy football contest every player in the NFL is or could be on your roster. Don't you think there might be a lot more work there to try and figure out some great line ups. The more research you do and the more time you spend usually means you will make better lineups and do well. That's why you see the best players who do this part well ( Time spent building Lineups ) winning the most money. If your playing in a 50/50 contest and there is 2000 people then half will win. So as you can see it's not as easy as you think when the whole NFL is your roster. Unlike season long where you have 18 to 21 players. Now back to the money part. You can play for money In both Season long and Daily fantasy sports, you can also play in free leagues in both season long and daily. So when I first started playing daily fantasy sports on draft kings and fan duel I only played in the free games to get the hang of it. So I played in a lot of free league contests or head to head's or 50/50's contest for the 1st month. Then I would compare my scores to see how I would have done in the big paid tournaments. Did you know you can make your own private contests on these sites that only your work buddies can play in and no one else. You all can play for free or if you want every one puts in a buck. Yes these sites let you create your own contests. Anyways when the contests are over monies are paid out in season long and they are also paid out daily contest. So there is no difference except the length of time. Bottom line is money is collected, then there is a winner or winners, then monies are paid out. If you play on some sites like CBS sports line they charge you $125.00 to run your league so you can see real time scores of your season long league games and also run your waivers and league standings. On draft kings I pay $1.00 to play a 50/50 or head to head or a league contest against another opponent, Draft kings takes 10 cents to run the contest so I would win $1.90. So both season long and daily take money to administer your contests. If daily fantasy gets banned in NYS then seasonal will also get banned after this trial takes place. Did you know Draft Kings and Fan Duel are suing NYS and the Attorney General so this will end up in court down the road. If your doing your season long league for free on yahoo, guess what, there getting millions in advertising so there still taking money for running the leagues. So don't kid yourself. You know nothing about what your talking about. Keep thinking you do and your work league will get shut down by this law suit. No you will still be able to play in your work league but will be back in 1985 you will have to buy a computer program and compile the satistics and send them out by email to your league. You won't be able to play on Yahoo or CBS Sportsline. You can thank The NYS Attorney General for that. Your best bet would be to get on board and support the cause. The NYS Attorney General is not thinking clearly here. There is a bill already pending in the NYS legislature that will be completed in late Jan 2016 making this all legal in NYS. Many states have just passed bills ( Florida) or are getting ready to pass bills (Mass) to regulate it and make money for there tax payers. But this guy not only bans NY state residents from playing but then he says there running a illegal gambling operation. But then the Attorney General says that Fan Duel and Draft kings can stay open for business ( but NYS residents can't play) and then he says they can except bets to enter contests from people from all other states outside of NYS on Fan Duels computers servers which are located in NYC. Does this make any sense. If you were running a illegal gambling operation inside NYS and the Attorney General found out out about it. Do you think he would say ok we're shutting you down but oh by the way you can stay in business and except bets from people outside NYS. So this means people from New Jersey and Ohio and Michigan can play and enter contests but NYS residents can't. Do you really believe that this guy might be in the casino and Indian casino gambling interests back pocket, it's been proven he has taken lots of campaign contributions from them. He is all about making a name for him self so he can run for higher office. He all about stopping this train called daily fantasy sports from getting even bigger and trying to protect his political donors interests, because it's hurting the bottom line of the casino industry and indian gambling interests. The whole thing stinks to high heaven in my opinion. Well I can tell you this,the lawers that fan duel and draft kings hired are the best in the business. If Daily Fantasy sports gets shut down in NYS, season long fantasy sports is going down with it. it does not matter if the judge issues a injunction so they can still stay in business until the trial starts. This is still going to trial some time in the future. This little hearing they just had was to see if they could get a injunction to allow them to stay open in NYS until the trial starts next year. This may be all a mute point if the bill passes in January and it becomes law and it gets regulated. So your best bet is to get your head out of the sand and stop pretending like you know something because you really don't There is a lot of difference. Season long fantasy is a 4 month long investment and you may be rewarded for your effort in the end. Daily fantasy is dumping money on Sunday, and regretting it when they lose on Monday. Too much money has been changing hands in an unregulated system. This is why it has gathered government attention. Gambling laws are not there to prevent gambling, they are there to prevent the abuse that results from reckless gambling. I know, I know, state lottery, indian casinos, etc but that is the reason hypocritical or not. Edited November 27, 2015 by billsareback
FLFan Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 There is a lot of difference. Season long fantasy is a 4 month long investment and you may be rewarded for your effort in the end. Daily fantasy is dumping money on Sunday, and regretting it when they lose on Monday. Too much money has been changing hands in an unregulated system. This is why it has gathered government attention. Gambling laws are not there to prevent gambling, they are there to prevent the abuse that results from reckless gambling. I know, I know, state lottery, indian casinos, etc but that is the reason hypocritical or not. It has gathered Government attention because there is big corporate money and influence behind traditional casino and hotels who want that for themselves. The brick and mortar gambling industry is right now pushing legislation in Congress to further restrict online gaming such as currently bring tried in NV, NH, and DE. Add to all that the fact that states, like NY, now depend heavily on revenues from legal gambling like lotteries, keno, state regulated casinos, and Indian casinos. New York State does not care about the abuse of reckless gambling. If it did, the state sponsored gambling they promote would not exist. They care about the market economics of their own gambling enterprises, and the political support they receive from the gaming operators.
17 Josh Allen Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 I agree with everything you said in this post, good job. It has gathered Government attention because there is big corporate money and influence behind traditional casino and hotels who want that for themselves. The brick and mortar gambling industry is right now pushing legislation in Congress to further restrict online gaming such as currently bring tried in NV, NH, and DE. Add to all that the fact that states, like NY, now depend heavily on revenues from legal gambling like lotteries, keno, state regulated casinos, and Indian casinos. New York State does not care about the abuse of reckless gambling. If it did, the state sponsored gambling they promote would not exist. They care about the market economics of their own gambling enterprises, and the political support they receive from the gaming operators.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 He does sound like a paid message board shill, doesn't he? With all the money spent on advertising by these sites, I have no doubt they are active in the astroturfing world. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing 91% of the winnings go to 1.3% of the players. Whatever the actual figure is ...... who gets to see all of this data and use it "across the street" at the other site?
machine gun kelly Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 You just plain don't get it. Playing season long fantasy sports is more like gambling then playing daily fantasy sports that takes more skill. Your stuck with your team in season long, its harder to make adjustments and win, so who ever you draft your sort of stuck with them unless you trade or release them. If you get season ending injuries to your players it can kill your chances of winning anything. Trust me this is coming from a guy that played in season long fantasy football leagues with my fellow workers for 22 years and I won 8 championships. Some years I had many season ending injuries to my players and I was basically screwed and my team did not make the playoffs. In daily Fantasy Football you don't have to worry about season ending Injuries because you just don't select those players when you construct your line-ups. Also in season long fantasy football you can't have the same players as your opponent when you play but in daily it's possible to have some of the same players. Everyone starts with a blank slate. Some people compare it to poker but it's not really a good comparison. In poker your dealt random cards from a deck of cards so right from the start your starting with unknown or random event you may be delt good cards you might not be delt good cards. Then you adjust and bet as you discard cards or wait for cards on the flop. Poker requires strategy and how you play as new cards are delt or flopped and what your opponent has showing plus there is bluffing. You can win in poker even with bad hands if your good at bluffing. At the start of daily fantasy football you have zero players you have access to every player in the league based on a salary cap of $60,000. All contestants start from the same spot with zero players and they get to pick there team. Remember in poker your dealt random cards from deck of cards. So if I was to go to Fan duel and they gave me a quick pick of players like the NYS lottery this would be considered gambling. But this is where the skill comes in of line up construction. You must look at the players current injury status on how well he has been playing lately. Injuries to the people he plays with Offensive line, QB ect, ect. So if you look at the San Diego Chargers Phillip Rivers he was a good guy to play earlier in the year he was scoring mega points in daily fantasy. not so much anymore, all his receivers and offense linemen are injured. If you had him as your #1 QB in season long your screwed. You also look at who will be guarding them. What is the scheme to try and stop them. So yesterday you had Carolinas Panthers top corner pretty much shut down Dallas Cowboys Dez Bryant, Dez was coming of a injury and has been playing with a bulky foot meaning he's running slower. Panthers have a awesome pass rush so you need to target a Dallas wide out that runs quick short routs. So Cole Beasley who in fact scored Dallas only touchdown was the correct wide out to select in daily fantasy if you were going to select a wide out from the Cowboys team. In fact Beasley was wide open for a 2nd TD at the end the game by 10 yards but Matt Cassell missed him. So as you can see it's more strategy based and requires a lot of work and thinking to make good lineups. Can you image playing a head to head against me, that has put in 10 hours of study against a quick pick lineup that you might get from fan duel if they had that like the NYS lottery or even like some of you guys that just play season long and are stuck with deciding who to start on your roster 21 players that you drafted. In daily your roster is every player in the NFL so it takes a lot more work to compete and do well. The skill of daily fantasy football is in the construction of your line-up decisions, this part is real and it takes hours of work if you want to do well. Think about how much time you spend thinking about the 21 guys on your roster if you play season long fantasy football your thinking about all week leading up to your game who your going to start and what are the match ups and the weather and injury reports and so on. Then think about if your roster was every player in the NFL. In daily fantasy football contest every player in the NFL is or could be on your roster. Don't you think there might be a lot more work there to try and figure out some great line ups. The more research you do and the more time you spend usually means you will make better lineups and do well. That's why you see the best players who do this part well ( Time spent building Lineups ) winning the most money. If your playing in a 50/50 contest and there is 2000 people then half will win. So as you can see it's not as easy as you think when the whole NFL is your roster. Unlike season long where you have 18 to 21 players. Now back to the money part. You can play for money In both Season long and Daily fantasy sports, you can also play in free leagues in both season long and daily. So when I first started playing daily fantasy sports on draft kings and fan duel I only played in the free games to get the hang of it. So I played in a lot of free league contests or head to head's or 50/50's contest for the 1st month. Then I would compare my scores to see how I would have done in the big paid tournaments. Did you know you can make your own private contests on these sites that only your work buddies can play in and no one else. You all can play for free or if you want every one puts in a buck. Yes these sites let you create your own contests. Anyways when the contests are over monies are paid out in season long and they are also paid out daily contest. So there is no difference except the length of time. Bottom line is money is collected, then there is a winner or winners, then monies are paid out. If you play on some sites like CBS sports line they charge you $125.00 to run your league so you can see real time scores of your season long league games and also run your waivers and league standings. On draft kings I pay $1.00 to play a 50/50 or head to head or a league contest against another opponent, Draft kings takes 10 cents to run the contest so I would win $1.90. So both season long and daily take money to administer your contests. If daily fantasy gets banned in NYS then seasonal will also get banned after this trial takes place. Did you know Draft Kings and Fan Duel are suing NYS and the Attorney General so this will end up in court down the road. If your doing your season long league for free on yahoo, guess what, there getting millions in advertising so there still taking money for running the leagues. So don't kid yourself. You know nothing about what your talking about. Keep thinking you do and your work league will get shut down by this law suit. No you will still be able to play in your work league but will be back in 1985 you will have to buy a computer program and compile the satistics and send them out by email to your league. You won't be able to play on Yahoo or CBS Sportsline. You can thank The NYS Attorney General for that. Your best bet would be to get on board and support the cause. The NYS Attorney General is not thinking clearly here. There is a bill already pending in the NYS legislature that will be completed in late Jan 2016 making this all legal in NYS. Many states have just passed bills ( Florida) or are getting ready to pass bills (Mass) to regulate it and make money for there tax payers. But this guy not only bans NY state residents from playing but then he says there running a illegal gambling operation. But then the Attorney General says that Fan Duel and Draft kings can stay open for business ( but NYS residents can't play) and then he says they can except bets to enter contests from people from all other states outside of NYS on Fan Duels computers servers which are located in NYC. Does this make any sense. If you were running a illegal gambling operation inside NYS and the Attorney General found out out about it. Do you think he would say ok we're shutting you down but oh by the way you can stay in business and except bets from people outside NYS. So this means people from New Jersey and Ohio and Michigan can play and enter contests but NYS residents can't. Do you really believe that this guy might be in the casino and Indian casino gambling interests back pocket, it's been proven he has taken lots of campaign contributions from them. He is all about making a name for him self so he can run for higher office. He all about stopping this train called daily fantasy sports from getting even bigger and trying to protect his political donors interests, because it's hurting the bottom line of the casino industry and indian gambling interests. The whole thing stinks to high heaven in my opinion. Well I can tell you this,the lawers that fan duel and draft kings hired are the best in the business. If Daily Fantasy sports gets shut down in NYS, season long fantasy sports is going down with it. it does not matter if the judge issues a injunction so they can still stay in business until the trial starts. This is still going to trial some time in the future. This little hearing they just had was to see if they could get a injunction to allow them to stay open in NYS until the trial starts next year. This may be all a mute point if the bill passes in January and it becomes law and it gets regulated. So your best bet is to get your head out of the sand and stop pretending like you know something because you really don't Paragraphs are your friend. So is Brevity.
Freddie's Dead Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 For those of you still naive enough to believe that DFS is on the square, here's another article detailing why you're a fish: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2015/10/12/all-the-reasons-you-probably-wont-win-money-playing-daily-fantasy-sports/
What a Tuel Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 you might be right I didn't read your whole thing, but the first few sentences sounded like a FanDuel Ad....
What a Tuel Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) It has gathered Government attention because there is big corporate money and influence behind traditional casino and hotels who want that for themselves. The brick and mortar gambling industry is right now pushing legislation in Congress to further restrict online gaming such as currently bring tried in NV, NH, and DE. Add to all that the fact that states, like NY, now depend heavily on revenues from legal gambling like lotteries, keno, state regulated casinos, and Indian casinos. New York State does not care about the abuse of reckless gambling. If it did, the state sponsored gambling they promote would not exist. They care about the market economics of their own gambling enterprises, and the political support they receive from the gaming operators. I don't believe this because FanDuel and DraftKings have been going on for several years. Suddenly allegations of cheating, and a marketing blitz of hundreds of millions of dollars and NY goes "What a minute? We are supposed to be protecting the brick and mortar gambling industry! " and then proceeds to ban it? Yeah right. More likely the Attorney General is making a name for himself, and proceeding to follow the spirit of the original law. Also NY doesn't depend on gambling revenues outside of the lottery. Edited November 27, 2015 by What a Tuel
jaybee Posted November 27, 2015 Posted November 27, 2015 The hypocrisy is what kills me. NYS is saying it's gambling and gambling is illegal. Oh really? Then what's with the NY lottery and the dumb scratch off tickets I get from relatives on my birthday? How about OTB and casinos? Makes no sense. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. They must think we are pretty stupid That right there is what burns me as well. In fact I avoid certain gas stations because of it too. Heck, the welfare / disability / non-workers make a career of scratch-offs and you have to wait in line to buy gas and a 6-pack of beer while they break out their little ticket books. Like the other guy said earlier..."makes me want to strangle kittens" Lol !! NYS=do as we say, not as WE do. Man what a scam.
17 Josh Allen Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) yes Fan Duel has been operating less then 2 Miles from the Attorney generals office in NYC since 2009. So now he has a change a heart give me a break. I don't believe this because FanDuel and DraftKings have been going on for several years. Suddenly allegations of cheating, and a marketing blitz of hundreds of millions of dollars and NY goes "What a minute? We are supposed to be protecting the brick and mortar gambling industry! " and then proceeds to ban it? Yeah right. More likely the Attorney General is making a name for himself, and proceeding to follow the spirit of the original law. Also NY doesn't depend on gambling revenues outside of the lottery. Edited November 28, 2015 by billsareback
17 Josh Allen Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 its called making better line-ups and i won over 20K so far so keep thinking that. Im just a average JOE For those of you still naive enough to believe that DFS is on the square, here's another article detailing why you're a fish: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2015/10/12/all-the-reasons-you-probably-wont-win-money-playing-daily-fantasy-sports/
Maury Ballstein Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 its called making better line-ups and i won over 20K so far so keep thinking that. Im just a average JOE Yea right. Draftkings probably offered you a freeroll for all this advertising.
GG Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 91% of the winnings go to 1.3% of the players. Doesn't this support the theory that it's skill based? If it was pure luck, then the payouts would be closer to the proportionate payouts of the games' odds.
What a Tuel Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Doesn't this support the theory that it's skill based? If it was pure luck, then the payouts would be closer to the proportionate payouts of the games' odds. It's skill based in the way that Poker Champions are skilled. The difference is that the high level players are preying on the run of the mill players and cashing in, in a big way. Our resident FanDuel promotion specialist disagrees though. You can win 20k just by setting a lineup! Just pick all the best players!
Saxum Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Yea right. Draftkings probably offered you a freeroll for all this advertising. There have been some reports that some paid shrills for Draftkings have been posting on social media how much money they earned but this is more likely just boasting with some stretching of the truth.
Freddie's Dead Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 its called making better line-ups and i won over 20K so far so keep thinking that. Im just a average JOE Congratulations for being in the 1.3% of winners. Let us know if you're still winning money after you graduate from the rookie rooms and get thrown in with the sharks.
GG Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 It's skill based in the way that Poker Champions are skilled. The difference is that the high level players are preying on the run of the mill players and cashing in, in a big way. Our resident FanDuel promotion specialist disagrees though. You can win 20k just by setting a lineup! Just pick all the best players! And that's why the better analogy is to investing and not to gambling. The skilled pros who have access to vastly more and better information will clean the amateurs' clocks 99% of the time. Doesn't mean that the amateur can't hit the right score once in a while. It's no secret that daily fantasy is employing the same marketing gambits that the lotteries and investment houses do. Hey, you never know. But that's a whole different argument of whether the fantasy leagues are games of skill or games of luck. Let's not forget that NYS in its inimitable wisdom held that pinball machines were a form of gambling.
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