TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 That's the thing. At no point does he come close to acknowledging that he was wrong and most were right. And like I said, I'm getting sick of people on here who are wrong time and time again (there is one guy in particular- not TYTT- who is like 0 for his last 6) about QB's continue to loudly and boldly insert their opinion on the next QB in question when they are always wrong. And to the other guy's point, what did TYTT see in Manuel that led him to believe his array of problems could be fixed after 14 games but that Taylor can't develop better pocket presence after six games?? I clearly have admitted that I was wrong about EJ having developed, having stated that Tyrod is definitely the better of the two, and should absolutely be the starting quarterback going forward. I was hopeful EJ may have developed, as quarterbacks tend to do going into their third season. I have also explained, ad nauseum, that it's not simply that game count its the fact that Tyrod has five NFL off-season regiments, five years of OTAs, five years of voluntary workouts, five years of Pre-Seasons, five years of NFL positional coaching, five full seasons of NFL practice, five full seasons of preparing every single week as if he was going to be the starter. Many people wish to discount that. I don't see how they can.
#34fan Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 TT is better than EJ.... I'll concede that much... I always liked the Tyrod, but still don't see him as a bona fide starter in the NFL... I hope he continues to improve... He's going to NEED TO in order to beat our #1 Draft pick out of the starting QB Job.... We've got four wins. Two of those came by the coachless Dullfins.. Three came by teams that fired their head coach mid-season! Beat somebody, Tyrod... See ya Thursday night!.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 You could have seen that he wasn't following the "normal development trends" as he made the same mistakes he's been making since day one. Not in the overwhelming majority of his pre-season games he didn't. He looked much better, and the organization agreed, as they were willing to trade away Matt Cassell. There was no reason to want EJ to start over Tyrod, unless you were completely fooled by the numbers. I disagree, but the we've been going round -and-round on this one now for about 9 weeks, and I'm not going to rehash it. We all hoped (most of us, anyway) that EJ would make the leap, but he didn't. A point of agreement. Like being a president of the U.S. there is really no apprenticeship for the speed and intensity and the game planning of the NFL regular season. Training camps and preseason can only get you ready so much. Playing in the regular season for some time is the only way to learn how to truly read defenses and go through all your progressions. Sure, the four training camps helped him enormously. But it is only 1/10th the same as playing four seasons. If this is true, then there really isn't any merit to developing a quarterback on the bench.
LeGOATski Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Actually...this is where TTT and I agree (what!) I do feel that in order to become a legit franchise QB.....he has to show the ability to make throws from the pocket. I dont want him doing it much because the rest of his game is so great....but he has to make throws here and there to keep defenses honest. He's shown the ability with a clean pocket. I agree if you're saying that he's not comfortable enough to navigate a pocket the way the best QBs do. Sometimes the pass-blocking is just good enough, but Tyrod isn't. He still could improve there with more experience.
Kelly the Dog Posted November 9, 2015 Author Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) If this is true, then there really isn't any merit to developing a quarterback on the bench. There are all kinds of things it can help you to become a better NFL QB and TT has benefitted tremendously from that. Knowing how to prepare, knowing the game, knowing how to practice, read film, your body developing, your strength and arm getting better, etc. I was referring to the "reading defenses" and "going through progressions" at the regular season complexity and speed. That stuff cannot be prepared for, which is what you are saying he cannot and maybe will never do. Perhaps 10% is too small a guess. Perhaps it's 1/5. Edited November 9, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
John from Riverside Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 He's shown the ability with a clean pocket. I agree if you're saying that he's not comfortable enough to navigate a pocket the way the best QBs do. Sometimes the pass-blocking is just good enough, but Tyrod isn't. He still could improve there with more experience. I think so as well
metzelaars_lives Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 I clearly have admitted that I was wrong about EJ having developed, having stated that Tyrod is definitely the better of the two, and should absolutely be the starting quarterback going forward. I was hopeful EJ may have developed, as quarterbacks tend to do going into their third season. I have also explained, ad nauseum, that it's not simply that game count its the fact that Tyrod has five NFL off-season regiments, five years of OTAs, five years of voluntary workouts, five years of Pre-Seasons, five years of NFL positional coaching, five full seasons of NFL practice, five full seasons of preparing every single week as if he was going to be the starter. Many people wish to discount that. I don't see how they can. I'm not sure what your point is exactly. I would concede that Taylor has had a more ideal situation leading up to him becoming a starting QB in the NFL than EJ Manuel. But Dan Orlovsky has had even more years of all that stuff than Tyrod Taylor (this is Taylor's fifth season by the way and Manuel's third so it's not like he's some old, wise grey-haired veteran and EJ is some young wide-eyed kid who just left his parents' potato farm in Idaho and got off the bus in LA for the first time). Would Taylor be as good if he were handed the reins in his second or third season as a pro as opposed to his fifth? I don't know. Probably not. I guess your answer to my question though, of what made you confident that Manuel would be an improvement THIS season over a guy who was top 5 in the NFL in passer rating, comp pct and YPA at that time that "well it's usually in a guy's third season that he all of a sudden becomes good" is still a little puzzling.
NoSaint Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Some stats as of this morning (im lazy...I stole this from a post somewhere else) 1st in completion percentage - 71.8% 3rd in yards per attempt - 8.58 yards 4th in QB Rating - 108.8 6th in Total QBR - 72.6 That is not in the AFC East....not in the AFC.....that is in the entire NFL folks Very efficient but still 31st in attempts. 14th in sacks 23rd in interceptions Still not sure they are giving him any leash at all at the line. Like I said, he's passing the test so far- it's just not been a very extensive one. I don't know how someone argues he showed progress yesterday, when there was so little of him seen. Maybe he would've looked fantastic even if grimes shut down Sammy and it was more of a shootout. I mentioned it up thread but how many passes did he even attempt yesterday that flew 10 yards? Its a number so small that it's hard to evaluate his day.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Very efficient but still 31st in attempts. 14th in sacks 23rd in interceptions Still not sure they are giving him any leash at all at the line. Like I said, he's passing the test so far- it's just not been a very extensive one. I don't know how someone argues he showed progress yesterday, when there was so little of him seen. Maybe he would've looked fantastic even if grimes shut down Sammy and it was more of a shootout. I mentioned it up thread but how many passes did he even attempt yesterday that flew 10 yards? Its a number so small that it's hard to evaluate his day. There were a lot of plays where the Dolphins were practically begging Taylor to throw the ball to the other side of the field when he instead went to Sammy. You can look at it like he didn't choose the option the defense was giving him......or just appreciate the fact that the combination of the running game influencing the safeties and Sammy torching Brent Grimes made Sammy the right choice. Kaepernick got to a Super Bowl with Roman and he wasn't nearly as polished as Tyrod at this point. Mike Vick had the Falcons challenging for a number of years as a less sophisticated passer than Tyrod as well. A lot can be done but not with this D playing like sh*t.
John from Riverside Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 TT is better than EJ.... I'll concede that much... I always liked the Tyrod, but still don't see him as a bona fide starter in the NFL... I hope he continues to improve... He's going to NEED TO in order to beat our #1 Draft pick out of the starting QB Job.... Draft is such a crapshoot....they could ALL be busts......with some people its always about the bright new shiny toy.....until they are not. I dont think we use a 1 on a QB anyway...now when we have a QB with top 5 NFL stats on the roster. We've got four wins. Two of those came by the coachless Dullfins.. And an AFCE Rival...... Three came by teams that fired their head coach mid-season! You do realize that the loss to the bills contributed to those firings Beat somebody, Tyrod... Beat somebody Tyrod.....and hopefully your weapons will actually be healthy at the time. His only losses are to the patriots who is beating everyone and the Giants who he actually manufactored enough points to win.......only to get called back by bogus penalties. That is not his fault See ya Thursday night!.
#34fan Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 TT is better than EJ.... I'll concede that much... I always liked the Tyrod, but still don't see him as a bona fide starter in the NFL... I hope he continues to improve... He's going to NEED TO in order to beat our #1 Draft pick out of the starting QB Job.... Draft is such a crapshoot....they could ALL be busts......with some people its always about the bright new shiny toy.....until they are not. I dont think we use a 1 on a QB anyway...now when we have a QB with top 5 NFL stats on the roster. We've got four wins. Two of those came by the coachless Dullfins.. And an AFCE Rival...... Three came by teams that fired their head coach mid-season! You do realize that the loss to the bills contributed to those firings Beat somebody, Tyrod... Beat somebody Tyrod.....and hopefully your weapons will actually be healthy at the time. His only losses are to the patriots who is beating everyone and the Giants who he actually manufactored enough points to win.......only to get called back by bogus penalties. That is not his fault See ya Thursday night!. The Dullfins are a 24th ranked defense. -29th against the run.... The colts D ranks 27th.... If Tyrod wants to be viewed as legit, he'll have to beat some teams that aren't awful... A win vs. the Jets would be a good start. JMO
Saxum Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 The Dullfins are a 24th ranked defense. -29th against the run.... The colts D ranks 27th.... If Tyrod wants to be viewed as legit, he'll have to beat some teams that aren't awful... A win vs. the Jets would be a good start. JMO If he (the team actually) beats them then the Jest will not be lgit by your definition.
#34fan Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) If he (the team actually) beats them then the Jest will not be lgit by your definition. Huh???? Ok, put it this way.... Thursdays game vs. a 5-3 division rival who's 4th ranked defense is #1 against the run will go a LONG way in showing us who Tyrod really is... FWIW, I think we would've beat the Jagoffs in London with TT under center... Thursday will be his toughest test yet. Edited November 10, 2015 by #34fan
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 The Dullfins are a 24th ranked defense. -29th against the run.... The colts D ranks 27th.... If Tyrod wants to be viewed as legit, he'll have to beat some teams that aren't awful... A win vs. the Jets would be a good start. JMO Followed by a W over the Cheatriots. And his propensity for sacks (17 in 6) games needs to improve greatly. If he (the team actually) beats them then the Jest will not be lgit by your definition. When was the last time that the NYETS were considered legit?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Followed by a W over the Cheatriots. And his propensity for sacks (17 in 6) games needs to improve greatly. When was the last time that the NYETS were considered legit? When they were coached by Rex Ryan
Kelly the Dog Posted November 17, 2015 Author Posted November 17, 2015 Just as an update, Tyrod Taylor, remarkably, is the third rated passer in the league behind Brady and Palmer. He is leading the league in completion percentage, the only player over 70%. He is tied for third in YPA at 8.2. He's thrown 11 TDs and 4 INTS.
JohnC Posted November 17, 2015 Posted November 17, 2015 Just as an update, Tyrod Taylor, remarkably, is the third rated passer in the league behind Brady and Palmer. He is leading the league in completion percentage, the only player over 70%. He is tied for third in YPA at 8.2. He's thrown 11 TDs and 4 INTS. Greg Roman has been very smart in the cautious way he is using TT. He is bringing him along instead of just cutting him loose by throwing the ball all over the place. By insisting on a running game even when it is not productive he is putting TT in a better situation. As your stats indicate TT is a very efficient qb. Much of that credit is due to the way Roman is handling him. The more TT plays the more responsibility he will be given with the ball. By calling a relatively conservative game Roman has put Taylor in a good position to succeed.There is little doubt that the OC will steadily add to his game the more he plays. Considering what qbs we had on the roster when training camp started TT is a godsend. Without him the Bills would be what they have been for a generation: a dull team with little realistic chance to compete for a playoff spot.
FireChan Posted November 17, 2015 Posted November 17, 2015 Just as an update, Tyrod Taylor, remarkably, is the third rated passer in the league behind Brady and Palmer. He is leading the league in completion percentage, the only player over 70%. He is tied for third in YPA at 8.2. He's thrown 11 TDs and 4 INTS. #inflation.
Dorkington Posted November 17, 2015 Posted November 17, 2015 Kind of reminds me a bit of what Brady and Big Ben were asked to do early in their careers (if I remember correctly). Strong run game, with not too much pressure on the QBs shoulders, easy reads and easy throws. Then as time goes on, hand over more responsibility to them.
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