TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Yeah his 146.5 rating, 98 QBR were not that impressive and that left handed incompletion to avoid the rush. What a rough game. I mean, he only led them to 33 points. He couldn't even pound it in on that last drive!!! We have been over this before but do you realize how ridiculous you sound poking holes in that performance? If you still want to prove yourself right, avoid these threads until he has a bad game and then come say "I told you so." You are criticizing his play in the pocket and he had 1 incompletion and it was to avoid a sack!! What did I say that was inaccurate? Things I stated: - Tyrod was the best version of himself on Sunday. - Tyrod will be effective if we can play this type of game. - Tyrod struggled in the pocket again, running himself into two sacks. (the third sack was not his fault) - Tyrod locked onto his primary receiver for most of the game, and didn't work well through his progressions. - Tyrod locking onto his primary receiver didn't hurt us because his primary receiver ran open all day (admittedly, you don't need to work through progressions when your first option is open, but it hurts you when he isn't) - Our dynamic skill players were healthy. - We ran for 266 yards - Tyrod only attempted 12 passes (important to note that he was sacked on 1/5 of all drop backs) - We played the entire game with a lead - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 What did I say that was inaccurate? Things I stated: - Tyrod was the best version of himself on Sunday. - Tyrod will be effective if we can play this type of game. - Tyrod struggled in the pocket again, running himself into two sacks. (the third sack was not his fault) - Tyrod locked onto his primary receiver for most of the game, and didn't work well through his progressions. - Tyrod locking onto his primary receiver didn't hurt us because his primary receiver ran open all day (admittedly, you don't need to work through progressions when your first option is open, but it hurts you when he isn't) - Our dynamic skill players were healthy. - We ran for 266 yards - Tyrod only attempted 12 passes (important to note that he was sacked on 1/5 of all drop backs) - We played the entire game with a lead - You don't need to go through progressions when your first option is open. He looked off Watkins on the 63 yarder. He will always get sacked some because he tries to keep plays alive. The 2 sacks are more than negated by his scrambles for 1st downs. It just isn't a performance to try to poke holes in. He isn't perfect but we should be thrilled with what he has given us this year. Tyrod has been much, much better than any of us could have hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The first deep ball to Sammy he looked to Sammy, saw he was still covered, looked to the middle, saw no one open, then looked back to Sammy and threw a 63 yard completion. Didn't lock on the guy at all. He doesn't lock on to his receivers 100% of the time, but he does it very often. Let me be very clear: This was the best game Tyrod has played all year. He was effective, and not only did he play well enough to win, but his play deserved the win. He gets a game ball from me. We will win a lot of games if we are able to limit Tyrod's throws to 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 What did I say that was inaccurate? Things I stated: - Tyrod was the best version of himself on Sunday. - Tyrod will be effective if we can play this type of game. - Tyrod struggled in the pocket again, running himself into two sacks. (the third sack was not his fault) - Tyrod locked onto his primary receiver for most of the game, and didn't work well through his progressions. - Tyrod locking onto his primary receiver didn't hurt us because his primary receiver ran open all day (admittedly, you don't need to work through progressions when your first option is open, but it hurts you when he isn't) - Our dynamic skill players were healthy. - We ran for 266 yards - Tyrod only attempted 12 passes (important to note that he was sacked on 1/5 of all drop backs) - We played the entire game with a lead - How can you say he struggled in the pocket when two times on the first two series it was 3rd down and a passing situation and then pocket collapsed and he escaped and then ran for a first down. One was third and four and one was third and six. That's just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 We will win a lot of games if we are able to limit Tyrod's throws to 12. And therein lies my concern. What about games where he'll need to throw it 35+ times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 What did I say that was inaccurate? Things I stated: - Tyrod was the best version of himself on Sunday. Actually the best current version of himself.....as he is showing signs of progression - Tyrod will be effective if we can play this type of game. Yeah...pretty much any franchise QB would. Im not calling TT a franchise qb yet....but just sayin....this would also help Russel Wison be effective. - Tyrod struggled in the pocket again, running himself into two sacks. (the third sack was not his fault) When you miss one pass...ALL game....you are not struggling from the pocket....as a matter of fact that bomb to Watkins was from the pocket - Tyrod locked onto his primary receiver for most of the game, and didn't work well through his progressions. How would you know I always laugh when I see you make definative statements like that..... - Tyrod locking onto his primary receiver didn't hurt us because his primary receiver ran open all day (admittedly, you don't need to work through progressions when your first option is open, but it hurts you when he isn't) Just because he was hitting Sammy all day doesnt mean he wasnt making his reads...it means his number 1 receiver was open. There is a difference - Our dynamic skill players were healthy. Basically the biggest deal of the whole game - We ran for 266 yards and do you think we have 2 100 yard rushers if TT is not a threat to them? The running game was open because they had to respect our passing game. - Tyrod only attempted 12 passes (important to note that he was sacked on 1/5 of all drop backs) Which actually is just fine. - We played the entire game with a lead Which TT had something to do with - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 You don't need to go through progressions when your first option is open. Who are you arguing with? Not me. I said this in the post you are taking issue with. But are you making the argument that getting through his progressions and not locking on to receivers is a strength of Tyrod's? I think you'd be the first person to ever make that argument. He looked off Watkins on the 63 yarder. I don't know that he looked him off, but he didn't seem to lock onto him on that throw. Tyrod made a great play there. But then, I never said he locks onto his receivers 100% of the time. I said he does it often. Further, no one disputes that he does it often. He will always get sacked some because he tries to keep plays alive. The two sacks he moved himself into weren't because he was "trying to keep plays alive". They were because he wasn't able to get through progressions, and struggled when forced to stay in the pocket. The 2 sacks are more than negated by his scrambles for 1st downs. This past Sunday they were. Not so much on other Sundays. It's a flaw in his game. It just isn't a performance to try to poke holes in. I'm not poking holes in his performance. It was, over-all, a very strong performance. What I'm saying is that he demonstrated the flaws in his game, as he always does. He was, however, able to overcome those flaws, and put together a strong game because of the contributions of our other play makers, and the fact that we played the game with the lead. He isn't perfect but we should be thrilled with what he has given us this year. Tyrod has been much, much better than any of us could have hoped. I don't disagree with this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 TT is now fourth in the league in passing, behind Brady, Dalton and Carson Palmer, and just ahead of Aaron Rodgers. His rating is 108.9. Brady leads the league with 113.5. He's thrown 10 TDs to 4 INTS, which is good. His YPC is an excellent 8.6 which is tied for second in the league and a little better than Brady. He is basically leading the league in completion percentage with 71.8 (if you count an arbitrary over 100 completions, Wheedon has less but a little higher percentage but he's only played 2-3 games). This is, of course, not counting the running, which is one of his best assets. He's also 4-2 as a starter. Sure he is not a franchise QB yet, and we don't know if this will continue. But it's rather freaking remarkable at this stage of the season. And you can't say he's a fluke because he's consistently thrown an extremely accurate long ball and all passes for the most part. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?akmobile=ios-tablet&akmobile=ios-tablet&akmobile=ios-tablet&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&akcarrier=other&akcarrier=other&akcarrier=other&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_COMPLETION_PERCENTAGE LOVE IT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 How can you say he struggled in the pocket when two times on the first two series it was 3rd down and a passing situation and then pocket collapsed and he escaped and then ran for a first down. One was third and four and one was third and six. That's just ridiculous. He struggled in the pocket. He always struggles in the pocket. Playing in the pocket is not the strength of his game. Tyrod plays best when he is able to move to his right; or when his first read is open, and he's not forced to make decisions from the pocket. The fact that he's fast and athletic enough to run for first downs when he is able to escape from the pocket is not evidence that he's strong in the pocket. It's evidence that he's strong out side of the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 He struggled in the pocket. He always struggles in the pocket. Playing in the pocket is not the strength of his game. Tyrod plays best when he is able to move to his right; or when his first read is open, and he's not forced to make decisions from the pocket. The fact that he's fast and athletic enough to run for first downs when he is able to escape from the pocket is not evidence that he's strong in the pocket. It's evidence that he's strong out side of the pocket. For now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 He struggled in the pocket. He always struggles in the pocket. Playing in the pocket is not the strength of his game. Tyrod plays best when he is able to move to his right; or when his first read is open, and he's not forced to make decisions from the pocket. The fact that he's fast and athletic enough to run for first downs when he is able to escape from the pocket is not evidence that he's strong in the pocket. It's evidence that he's strong out side of the pocket. Pockets break down. Often very quick. And especially on the Bills. There were guys all around him on the last sack. He couldn't go through his progressions. He avoided two of them and didn't see the third, who sacked him. That is not being poor in the pocket. That is the pocket collapsing too quick to go through all the progressions (combined with guys likely not being open). QBs get sacked. All of them. Especially on teams where the lines are not great yet. Even guys who are great at going through their progressions get sacked in the pocket because there is no time to do it. It's not like he had all day to throw on his three sacks (one we don't count, which you said). I just don't see how you discount the fact that when a pocket collapses very quick, and 90% of QBs would be sacked or lucky to throw it away, he sneaks away and gets a first down running. If he went through his progressions as you seemingly want him to do on every play or else he is not good in the pocket, he would be sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Pockets break down. Often very quick. And especially on the Bills. There were guys all around him on the last sack. He couldn't go through his progressions. He avoided two of them and didn't see the third, who sacked him. That is not being poor in the pocket. That is the pocket collapsing too quick to go through all the progressions (combined with guys likely not being open). QBs get sacked. All of them. Especially on teams where the lines are not great yet. Even guys who are great at going through their progressions get sacked in the pocket because there is no time to do it. It's not like he had all day to throw on his three sacks (one we don't count, which you said). I just don't see how you discount the fact that when a pocket collapses very quick, and 90% of QBs would be sacked or lucky to throw it away, he sneaks away and gets a first down running. If he went through his progressions as you seemingly want him to do on every play or else he is not good in the pocket, he would be sacked. Do you believe there are any major flaws in Tyrod's game? If so, what do you believe they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Good lord! Taylor is not perfect, but he is exciting. Think of all the mediocre bums we've had to endure. Can't we just enjoy this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Do you believe there are any major flaws in Tyrod's game? If so, what do you believe they are? I can't speak for KtD, but there is an obvious one: sacks. He's being sacked at 10.2 percent rate, which is too high. It's mitigated to an extent by the escapes that result in big running plays, but he has to take fewer sacks. He is not fumbling on his sacks, though, and that's huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Talking about good deep passes, not counting this game, TT has a passer rating of ~132 on passes over 31 yards, and is completing 45% of them. That's money. That is absurdly good... He has the highest yards per attempt.. AND.. the highest completion percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Do you believe there are any major flaws in Tyrod's game? If so, what do you believe they are? He doesn't see the middle of the field well and doesn't go that way nearly enough, from the pocket. He has a tendency to drop the ball in his throwing hand when the rush comes and leave it somewhat dangling. It hasn't been a disaster yet but he fumbled against the Patriots on the rush like that. He locks on his receivers to a small degree but a lot of time when he locks on them he just waits until they get open and then throws completions. Sometimes of course they don't get open. But he really hasn't had a huge problem yet with locking on guys. Sometimes he guns the ball on short passes which are too high and those are ripe for INTs which happened more earlier than in the last few. He doesn't slide or doesn't slide feet first as quickly as he should sometimes but that is asking a lot. The following is going to come out way too laudatory and I don't mean it to. I don't believe he necessarily possesses these qualities on a long term basis, because we are going to have to wait a long time, but he has shown them already, and I guess there isn't much reason to believe that he won't continue them more than he will. It's just an unknown. But like Russell Wilson, I think there are say 25 things that a QB needs to be able to do well, under tremendous pressure, with guys trying to literally rip your body apart. But... TT is a very good leader. The players and coaches consistently gush about this. TT is very good in the huddle keeping things calm and explaining what they need to do. TT is very good at the LOS as far as directly players on where to line up and calling out blocking assignments. Players have said this too and you can see it. TT has very good accuracy so far. I'm not sure it will continue but it's been pretty consistent. He can throw the short pass on the run. The 10-15 yard. The deep out. The bomb especially extremely accurate. He hasn't had a lot of deep seam passes but he hasn't missed them either he just hasn't thrown a lot and that may be a criticism. TT can throw from the pocket, out of the pocket, running left or right, and he is usually looking downfield when he runs which is a fantastic trait. TT is tough and fearless. The play/penalty he got hurt on is specifically designed to stop players from getting their bodies bent backwards like that to prevent injury and that's how he got injured. TT can both scramble to pass, and scramble to avoid sacks, and scramble to run, and just run. Amazingly a great runner, not even for a QB but for any RB as evidence several times already. TT can seemingly run the two minute offense. He looks in control. He doesn't panic. A couple times when I thought he was wasting too much tIme he ended up scoring at the end of the half with just enough time. TT knows what to do late in the half. Once in preseason and once in the regular season he had less then ten seconds, dropped back, threw a perfect out pattern to gain 7 or so yards to barely get into FG range and Carpenter nailed both long FGs. Those were tiny but great plays and awareness. TT is a very good ball handler on play fakes, play action, and on the read option, allowing him to get by the DE even if the DE stays home like he should. TT is a smart player, student of the game. TT is loved by his coaches and teammates and is very coachable, which is two different things. TT doesn't brag, decided to dress well to the games and to interviews to show he is the leader of the team and set an example. TT studies a ton of film, and studies players and listens to guys. Flacco loved him. As do all his Raven teammates. TT is a workout warrior in the offseason and goes through grueling workouts with Kap. TT is the first in and last out kind of gym rat who always works after practice with a Hogan and Sammy and the other receivers to perfect his game and chemistry. TT doesn't take a lot of stupid chances. Doesn't turn the ball over much. Doesn't throw into double coverage all that much although sometimes of course it is inevitable. On his long balls if he misses he misses deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I can't speak for KtD, but there is an obvious one: sacks. He's being sacked at 10.2 percent rate, which is too high. It's mitigated to an extent by the escapes that result in big running plays, but he has to take fewer sacks. He is not fumbling on his sacks, though, and that's huge. I think the O line has to take some of the blame for that. This is not to say that TT has played flawless.....but hey.....how good does he need to be before the bills say "the QBs in this draft have a long learning curve before they are Tyrod Taylor good" IMHO......Taylor has already surpassed that question. The real question for me is durability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I think the O line has to take some of the blame for that. This is not to say that TT has played flawless.....but hey.....how good does he need to be before the bills say "the QBs in this draft have a long learning curve before they are Tyrod Taylor good" IMHO......Taylor has already surpassed that question. The real question for me is durability Do you believe Tyrod Taylor has any major flaws in his game? If so, what do believe they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 I can't speak for KtD, but there is an obvious one: sacks. He's being sacked at 10.2 percent rate, which is too high. It's mitigated to an extent by the escapes that result in big running plays, but he has to take fewer sacks. He is not fumbling on his sacks, though, and that's huge. Yeah that is a tough one. Most great scrambling QBs get sacked a lot, too. They just believe they can get away from guys, most often do, but when 90% of QBs would just throw it away for an incompletion they still keep trying to escape and make a play. Those stats are very misleading however. You have to take the good with the bad with all of these guys who can scramble like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Do you believe Tyrod Taylor has any major flaws in his game? If so, what do believe they are? While I love the competative nature of TT.....I would like to see him smarter when he is running with the ball....meaning go down sooner with incoming defenders....... I do hold my breath every single time he takes a hit on the field....just get what you need to keep the drive alive and use the rules the NFL has set up to protect QBs That hit to Bridgewater this last week was flat scarey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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