Defense is still average

[ScrewyLouie]

A big disappointment I notice with the defense is the poor tackling by the linebackers. Especially Preston Brown he misses a lot of tackles that should be made. He had another big missed tackle in the Miami game. What should have been a two yard loss turned into a huge gain and first down that led to a touchdown. He was a lot better in his rookie year. I don't know why he went down hill. The pass coverage by the linebackers is another area that leaves a lot to be desired.

I know they have to draft offensive lineman this upcoming draft but they also have to spend a premium pick on a linebacker.

Edited November 11, 2015 by ScrewyLouie

[BADOLBILZ]

A big disappointment I notice with the defense is the poor tackling by the linebackers. Especially Preston Brown he misses a lot of tackles that should be made. He had another big missed tackle in the Miami game. What should have been a two yard loss turned into a huge gain and first down that led to a touchdown. He was a lot better in his rookie year. I don't know why he went down hill. The pass coverage by the linebackers is another area that leaves a lot to be desired.

I know they have to draft offensive lineman this upcoming draft but they also have to spend a premium pick on a linebacker.

 

 

I was talking to a former college linebacker today and before I could mention my takes on the D the first thing he said was that he couldn't believe how much ground they are expecting the LB's to cover.

 

I'd love to see the advanced stat on yardage covered by Brown and Bradham. It seems like they are in on every play.....for better or worse.

 

And if people think THOSE guys are struggling.......knock on wood.........do fans realize that they have zero depth at the position?

[ScrewyLouie]

 

 

I was talking to a former college linebacker today and before I could mention my takes on the D the first thing he said was that he couldn't believe how much ground they are expecting the LB's to cover.

 

I'd love to see the advanced stat on yardage covered by Brown and Bradham. It seems like they are in on every play.....for better or worse.

 

And if people think THOSE guys are struggling.......knock on wood.........do fans realize th at they have zero depth at the position?

Of course we realize they have no depth at linebacker. If they did Preston would have lost his job. You can't replace him with a guy that's worse. That's why I mentioned the Bills will be forced to use a premium pick on a linebacker in the upcoming draft.

Bradham is an o.k, decent linebacker but he's nothing to write home to mom about. If he wants superstar money after the season he can be replaced. I would sign him for a reasonable amount but I wouldn't go out on limb to sign him. I would have went all in for Jerry Hughes like the Bills did but not for Bradham.

Edited November 11, 2015 by ScrewyLouie

[GunnerBill]

He was a lot better in his rookie year. I don't know why he went down hill. .

 

I do - and it is scheme, scheme and scheme again. The reason that both Brown and Bradham are missing a lot of tackles is that they are being asked to diagnose the play and react and as a result are a split second late to tackles and are taking bad angles. Have they both missed some tackles that should have been made? Sure. But they are being asked to do far too much brainwork, cover far too much ground and (as Badol alluded to) play ever single snap. The Schwartz defense appeared to have one responsibility for the linebackers on every single play. In this defense they are being asked to do a lot more in terms of diagnosing plays and reacting accordingly and to be honest it looks like it has gotten the better of them. They both looked utterly confused at Wembley and there was one play where Bradham started running out to the sideline as the ball was snapped and then changed his mind starting running back to the middle and got halfway and just stopped with his arms up in mid air. He doesn't know what the calls are - all the disguise attempts are confusing our guys - but particularly our linebackers, much more than they are confusing Quarterbacks. I haven't had a chance to watch the all22 from this week to see if the supposed simplification of calls helped that at all. It didn't appear to have from the TV camera angle.

[3rdand12]

 

 

I was talking to a former college linebacker today and before I could mention my takes on the D the first thing he said was that he couldn't believe how much ground they are expecting the LB's to cover.

 

I'd love to see the advanced stat on yardage covered by Brown and Bradham. It seems like they are in on every play.....for better or worse.

 

And if people think THOSE guys are struggling.......knock on wood.........do fans realize that they have zero depth at the position?

They thought Ty Powell would be getting reps, maybe taking the Mike over?

Interesting point your Buddy makes though!

 

I do - and it is scheme, scheme and scheme again. The reason that both Brown and Bradham are missing a lot of tackles is that they are being asked to diagnose the play and react and as a result are a split second late to tackles and are taking bad angles. Have they both missed some tackles that should have been made? Sure. But they are being asked to do far too much brainwork, cover far too much ground and (as Badol alluded to) play ever single snap. The Schwartz defense appeared to have one responsibility for the linebackers on every single play. In this defense they are being asked to do a lot more in terms of diagnosing plays and reacting accordingly and to be honest it looks like it has gotten the better of them. They both looked utterly confused at Wembley and there was one play where Bradham started running out to the sideline as the ball was snapped and then changed his mind starting running back to the middle and got halfway and just stopped with his arms up in mid air. He doesn't know what the calls are - all the disguise attempts are confusing our guys - but particularly our linebackers, much more than they are confusing Quarterbacks. I haven't had a chance to watch the all22 from this week to see if the supposed simplification of calls helped that at all. It didn't appear to have from the TV camera angle.

Good points, The confusion from the LBs and safeties has to be cleaned up

[machine gun kelly]

 

I do - and it is scheme, scheme and scheme again. The reason that both Brown and Bradham are missing a lot of tackles is that they are being asked to diagnose the play and react and as a result are a split second late to tackles and are taking bad angles. Have they both missed some tackles that should have been made? Sure. But they are being asked to do far too much brainwork, cover far too much ground and (as Badol alluded to) play ever single snap. The Schwartz defense appeared to have one responsibility for the linebackers on every single play. In this defense they are being asked to do a lot more in terms of diagnosing plays and reacting accordingly and to be honest it looks like it has gotten the better of them. They both looked utterly confused at Wembley and there was one play where Bradham started running out to the sideline as the ball was snapped and then changed his mind starting running back to the middle and got halfway and just stopped with his arms up in mid air. He doesn't know what the calls are - all the disguise attempts are confusing our guys - but particularly our linebackers, much more than they are confusing Quarterbacks. I haven't had a chance to watch the all22 from this week to see if the supposed simplification of calls helped that at all. It didn't appear to have from the TV camera angle.

 

I don't want to get into a big wide 9 Schwartz defense argument, but gunner, you are right. Preston Brown played well in a 4-3. He's having trouble in the Rex 3-4.

 

We'll see as it is possible these guys keep learning and understand their roles as the season progresses. As someone posted, Jason Taylor on NFLR stated last week, Rex's defense was the hardest to learn in his entire career, but eventually he learned his role.

[26TrapDraw]

I hate to say it but I think the Jets O will shred this Bills D. It falls on Rex. He doesn't get in theses guys faces when they commit stupid penalties so why would they care about discipline or Accountability for their actions. I hope I'm dead wrong but I see the Chan Gailey Led Jet's O shredding this D for 400 + yards and 28 points. I am not a fan of Rex's complete disregard for discipline.

Edited November 11, 2015 by BeefCurtns

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I was talking to a former college linebacker today and before I could mention my takes on the D the first thing he said was that he couldn't believe how much ground they are expecting the LB's to cover.

 

This.

 

Rex's D scheme is not suited to our players.

[bananathumb]

I hate to say it but I think the Jets O will shred this Bills D. It falls on Rex. He doesn't get in theses guys faces when they commit stupid penalties so why would they care about discipline or Accountability for their actions. I hope I'm dead wrong but I see the Chan Gailey Led Jet's O shredding this D for 400 + yards and 28 points. I am not a fan of Rex's complete disregard for discipline.

 

Gotta agree with everything here. Sad thing is, the loser of this game is probably out of playoffs. Ryan needs to show more than he has so far. Maybe he is saving his Defensive gems for his old team.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

I do - and it is scheme, scheme and scheme again. The reason that both Brown and Bradham are missing a lot of tackles is that they are being asked to diagnose the play and react and as a result are a split second late to tackles and are taking bad angles. Have they both missed some tackles that should have been made? Sure. But they are being asked to do far too much brainwork, cover far too much ground and (as Badol alluded to) play ever single snap. The Schwartz defense appeared to have one responsibility for the linebackers on every single play. In this defense they are being asked to do a lot more in terms of diagnosing plays and reacting accordingly and to be honest it looks like it has gotten the better of them. They both looked utterly confused at Wembley and there was one play where Bradham started running out to the sideline as the ball was snapped and then changed his mind starting running back to the middle and got halfway and just stopped with his arms up in mid air. He doesn't know what the calls are - all the disguise attempts are confusing our guys - but particularly our linebackers, much more than they are confusing Quarterbacks. I haven't had a chance to watch the all22 from this week to see if the supposed simplification of calls helped that at all. It didn't appear to have from the TV camera angle.

 

Yes, scheme and scheme and also communication. When there's a complex D with multiple assignments depending on the call, crowd noise hurts communication on D too.

 

It's not a coincidence that every time a talented D (personnel-wise) goes from disappointing to league-leading, two or more players are asked what's responsible and say something like "coach W really simplified the D and streamlined the play calling and now we just go after it"

 

We have had an offense-minded HC who left the D in the hands of talented DCs (Marrone: Pettine, Schwartz) and whose O didn't live up to expectations.

Now we have a defense-minded HC who has left the O in the hands of a talented OC (Roman) and it looks like his D didn't live up to expectations.

 

I'd like to see us hire a HC who relies on talented OC and DCs. Then maybe we'd get somewhere.

That is so incorrect. Even the announcers mentioned that Ryan was making quick passes to the RBs and WR on the flat and getting yards after catch. There were very few plays where Tannehill had time to throw. The issue was poor tackling by our LBs. Also, Landry is a specimen. He can make tough catches and pull ball away from defenders.

 

The thing is Ganesh, this is the Workbook on how to beat the Bills D:P make quick passes on the flat, screen plays. The LB are being asked to cover an incredible amount of ground and to read/react and that isn't their strength.

 

It's been out there on film since the Pats beat us, and Rex hasn't dialed up an answer yet, which is disappointing.

Honestly has little to do with Schwartz and more about knowing what plays to call with the talent you have. Wide 9 is wide 9, 3-4 is 3-4 and 4-3 is 4-3. Your personnel was built with great pass rushing front four, you rush with them. You are not paying that line that $ to not do that...

(...)

Don't mess with the D, add some wrinkles here and there, but leave what worked and build off it based on the talent you have. If you are a system guy, as players come and go you can slowly transition to your system. The way we are doing it, asinine. We are wasting a year by trying to focus on a system and having to cut/trade good players in the off-season to fit this scheme and eat the cap hit. A problem with system coaches is that if they don't work out, you have to shed those system players once you can the coach.

 

You should always look for a coach who can call plays and scheme based on the talents you have. While I liked the energy of the Rex hire and change of pace, what is happening now concerned me. I don't think he was the right hire. The right hire would have made changes in the bye week; he is too stubborn to do this. This will be his downfall here...bank it

 

I really could have written this. The only thing I have to add is that Rex talked a great game about not being a system guy and using a scheme that would give the players he has the best chance to succeed, "just give me guys who can really play, not guys who fit specific physical profiles" kind of thing.

 

He talked a great game that way but he hasn't walked his talk.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Hopeful

[GunnerBill]

Hopeful - you are correct. Communication is a big part of it - the scheme requires a lot of communication and is one of its inherent weaknesses if that communication is not good.

[The Big Cat]

 

Yes, scheme and scheme and also communication. When there's a complex D with multiple assignments depending on the call, crowd noise hurts communication on D too.

 

It's not a coincidence that every time a talented D (personnel-wise) goes from disappointing to league-leading, two or more players are asked what's responsible and say something like "coach W really simplified the D and streamlined the play calling and now we just go after it"

 

We have had an offense-minded HC who left the D in the hands of talented DCs (Marrone: Pettine, Schwartz) and whose O didn't live up to expectations.

Now we have a defense-minded HC who has left the O in the hands of a talented OC (Roman) and it looks like his D didn't live up to expectations.

 

I'd like to see us hire a HC who relies on talented OC and DCs. Then maybe we'd get somewhere.

 

The thing is Ganesh, this is the Workbook on how to beat the Bills D:P make quick passes on the flat, screen plays. The LB are being asked to cover an incredible amount of ground and to read/react and that isn't their strength.

 

It's been out there on film since the Pats beat us, and Rex hasn't dialed up an answer yet, which is disappointing.

 

I really could have written this. The only thing I have to add is that Rex talked a great game about not being a system guy and using a scheme that would give the players he has the best chance to succeed, "just give me guys who can really play, not guys who fit specific physical profiles" kind of thing.

 

He talked a great game that way but he hasn't walked his talk.

 

We can complain about the scheme not being a fit for the linebackers all we want. Fine. Whatever.

 

Except this team committed to Rex for (reportedly) 3-5 years.

 

The same cannot be said for Brown or Bradham.

 

We brought Rex here to run his scheme. He has the job security to build the roster around his scheme.

 

Why would we want a half-assed approach that keeps changing to fit the personnel? That's not what Rex does. He never has. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

 

You say the linebackers are being asked to cover too much ground? Well, Rex keeps saying we're not lined up right. Is it the scheme's fault that linebackers keep whiffing on tackles in the flat and in the backfield? I can't imagine any sane person would feel that way.

 

Look, I share your frustration. I wish this defense was the best in the universe, too. But who would you rather invest the future in? Rex's proven scheme? Or a fifth round linebacker whose contract is going to expire and a second year player who was drafted to fit a different scheme?

 

I think the choice is clear. And I think Bills fans are just cranky to have to be going through the growing pains.

 

I'll say it again:

 

We didn't bring Rex Ryan to Buffalo to run Jim Schwartz's scheme. We didn't bring him here to run Pettine's either. We also didn't bring him in here to run a waterered-down version of what he's had a ton of success doing. We brought him here to run his scheme. A scheme that is--by all reports--exceedingly difficult to learn, but has a proven track record of success.

 

I've been on this board for nine years. You'd be hard pressed to find any evidence of my advocating for anything other than staying the course. This situation is no different.

[GunnerBill]

 

I've been on this board for nine years. You'd be hard pressed to find any evidence of my advocating for anything other than staying the course. This situation is no different.

 

I am normally a staying the course guy too. But I cannot, just cannot get on board with rebuilding a part of our team that has elite level talent. Bringing Rex in was the wrong hire. Letting him take apart the best defense we have had in a long, long time in order to run his scheme would be a remarkable waste in my estimation.

 

I might be bound to be disappointed on this - because I suspect you are right and their commitement is to Rex. Mine wouldn't be. I would admit I've got it wrong and fire him rather than spend 2/3 years rebuilding this defense..... because he can't rebuild it through FA - there is no cap space to do so... which means rebuilding it through the draft and that requires patience. I don't want 3 years of rebuilding the defense o fit Rex's style when the defence we have is full of proven talent and can win NOW.

[Kelly the Dog]

Rex usually had Chan and Fitzy's number when his Jet defense played the Bills.

[The Big Cat]

 

I am normally a staying the course guy too. But I cannot, just cannot get on board with rebuilding a part of our team that has elite level talent. Bringing Rex in was the wrong hire. Letting him take apart the best defense we have had in a long, long time in order to run his scheme would be a remarkable waste in my estimation.

 

I might be bound to be disappointed on this - because I suspect you are right and their commitement is to Rex. Mine wouldn't be. I would admit I've got it wrong and fire him rather than spend 2/3 years rebuilding this defense..... because he can't rebuild it through FA - there is no cap space to do so... which means rebuilding it through the draft and that requires patience. I don't want 3 years of rebuilding the defense o fit Rex's style when the defence we have is full of proven talent and can win NOW.

 

And as I've said before already in this thread: I share your frustration, I acknowledge it and I understand it.

 

But as I've also said: You're essentially falling back on "15 years" as the root of your frustration.

 

And, quite frankly, Rex Ryan--the proven NFL HC with experience, the one we paid, the one fans were clamoring for during each and every post-Levy hire--shouldn't be expected to change what he's done to achieve that success simply because "15 years."

And if you hated the hire when it happened, sorry.

[MDH]

I'd love to see the advanced stat on yardage covered by Brown and Bradham. It seems like they are in on every play.....for better or worse.

 

And if people think THOSE guys are struggling.......knock on wood.........do fans realize that they have zero depth at the position?

Ive noticed it with then entire D, they just dont sub. Consequently we have a tired DL and tired LBs getting locked up with blockers and missing tackles late in games. With the lack of LB depth I get it, but the DL (when healthy) can be rotated successfully. Im unsure why they dont do it.

 

Last year nobody on the DL more than 72% of the time, this year there are multiple guys in the 90s and Kyle and Dareus' percentages would be much higher had they not missed games.

[Chandler#81]

A big disappointment I notice with the defense is the poor tackling by the linebackers. Especially Preston Brown he misses a lot of tackles that should be made. He had another big missed tackle in the Miami game. What should have been a two yard loss turned into a huge gain and first down that led to a touchdown. He was a lot better in his rookie year. I don't know why he went down hill. The pass coverage by the linebackers is another area that leaves a lot to be desired.

I know they have to draft offensive lineman this upcoming draft but they also have to spend a premium pick on a linebacker.

Bolded is what you're missing in your own post. Why did one missed tackle in the backfield result in a huge gain? Ans: because Nobody else was anywhere near the play and Brown had to come screaming over from MLB on a bad angle in desperation.

It's scheme. and our players still haven't adjusted to it -or can't. Brown is a great find and he's going nowhere. he'll be anchoring our defense for many years.

[Utah John]

Does anyone think that Jim Schwartz's defense from last year, with Greg Roman's offense from this year, plus all the talent the from office picked up, would be struggling to make the playoffs? Ryan's hiring was a monumental blunder.

[GunnerBill]

 

And as I've said before already in this thread: I share your frustration, I acknowledge it and I understand it.

 

But as I've also said: You're essentially falling back on "15 years" as the root of your frustration.

 

And, quite frankly, Rex Ryan--the proven NFL HC with experience, the one we paid, the one fans were clamoring for during each and every post-Levy hire--shouldn't be expected to change what he's done to achieve that success simply because "15 years."

And if you hated the hire when it happened, sorry.

 

I am not falling back on 15 years, not really. I don't believe top flight defenses in the NFL are that easy to construct in this day in age... and there is every chance Rex could spend 3 years rebuilding a defense to suit his style and be in a worse position than we are now - or at least were when he arrived.

 

He was the wrong hire. I support him don't get me wrong I even quite like him...... but I just don't think we should be going down the road of dismatintling any of the good things we had before he arrived (for me we have a good General Manager and a very good set of defensive players) to prop him up. If we had just hired Bill Belichick maybe he justifies that - Rex doesn't. I'd move on from Rex if the team ends up outside of the play-offs because the defense hasn't held up its end of the bargain.

Edited November 11, 2015 by GunnerBill

[Kelly the Dog]

Ive noticed it with then entire D, they just dont sub. Consequently we have a tired DL and tired LBs getting locked up with blockers and missing tackles late in games. With the lack of LB depth I get it, but the DL (when healthy) can be rotated successfully. Im unsure why they dont do it.

 

Last year nobody on the DL more than 72% of the time, this year there are multiple guys in the 90s and Kyle and Dareus' percentages would be much higher had they not missed games.

This last week the DL played less. Rex said because of the short week for the next game he used the reserves a lot more. IK played a lot. As did Charles, and Carrington played more.