The Big Cat Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 My point is you could make the exact same excuses last year, except last year you didn't have to because the defense wasn't ****. But that "excuse" isn't applicable to last year. Not in the slightest.
FireChan Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 But that "excuse" isn't applicable to last year. Not in the slightest. Yeah because they didn't suck. Rex loses a safety and sucks. Jim Schwartz loses a safety and doesn't suck. That's why it isn't applicable.
dayman Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Lets see how we play against the Jets. Until we are finally KO'd there is always the chance for the defense to hold on and redeem itself.
The Big Cat Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Yeah because they didn't suck. Rex loses a safety and sucks. Jim Schwartz loses a safety and doesn't suck. That's why it isn't applicable. Rex lost both safeties. Also a corner, but why bring that up now? And Schwartz gained a linebacker in Spikes who promptly went away. You can alter reality however you like but it doesn't change how it unfolded for the rest of us.
FireChan Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Rex lost both safeties. Also a corner, but why bring that up now? And Schwartz gained a linebacker in Spikes who promptly went away. You can alter reality however you like but it doesn't change how it unfolded for the rest of us. Schwartz lost Kiko. Rex gained the DROY. Must be tough to put out a good defense with two top ten CB's, two average LB's, and a defense line full of ProBowlers. Just a defensive coordinators worst nightmare! Spikes was also a one down LB. Explain to me how a glorified role player who sucks in coverage helps Rex this year. Edited November 10, 2015 by FireChan
Mikie2times Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 If Miami goes no huddle in this game how do we perform?
Formerly Allan in MD Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 17 points allowed today. I'll take average like that every week. You won't get it.
Mikie2times Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Bradham is not a 3-4 OLB, no pass rush ability Mario is not clearly a 3-4 DE or OLB Dareus is not clearly a 3-4 NT Williams is not clearly a 3-4 NT or 3-4 DE Brown is not a + MLB Lawson is not a +OLB If 6 out of 7 players in your defensive front are stuck between positions or below average you will not get good results. Communication is the worst I've seen in a Bills defense this late in the season. I really don't see this changing. Edited November 10, 2015 by KzooMike
norton20 Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) The title of this thread is Defense is Still Average. I don't think they are that good. Mediocre would be my word. Every QB that comes into the Ralph is good for 300+ with a total offense near 400. That is mediocre. I'm glad the Bills won but I have very little confidence going forward. That sieve like defense that can't pressure, cover in the flat or stop screens is going to hold them back for sure. Bradham is not a 3-4 OLB, no pass rush ability Mario is not clearly a 3-4 DE or OLB Dareus is not clearly a 3-4 NT Williams is not clearly a 3-4 NT or 3-4 DE Brown is not a + MLB Lawson is not a +OLB If 6 out of 7 players in your defensive front are stuck between positions or below average you will not get good results. Communication is the worst I've seen in a Bills defense this late in the season. I really don't see this changing. Totally agree with the post above. Edited November 10, 2015 by norton20
Webster Guy Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Our linebackers are sub-par. I know this won't be popular around here, but Preston Brown is very mediocre. I'm not just saying this because he missed a tackle today that went for big yards. He doesn't move laterally particularly well, he's not really a thumper that can stand up a guard in a gap, and his coverage skills leave a lot to be desired. He'll make a play now and then but he's just as likely to disappear for a few weeks. Im not a big Preston fan, and I agree that his lateral movement isn't great, but he's been hitting hard this year, I'll give him that. Bradham seems more of a liability to me. Whaley has to have 2 new LB's in camp next year to push these guys.
Shamrock Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Robey played well, McKelvin shook off some rust, played better as game went on. Carrington had his usual long arm bat down for a play. Shredder was active in his role- Manny Lawson. How good was Meeks open field ST tackle, ok, not on D, but nice hit up. Is it time learning the new D? SM seems most affected out there. Nigel & Brown fly a bit too much, maybe aggressive angles and therefore timing? That front 4 has to pressure the quick drop way more, very few stunts from memory. Hughes has to add a spin move more often now, he destroyed Fox with it. When was the last time you saw a Bills DE spin on a tackle? Is Mario injured? Edited November 10, 2015 by Shamrock
Nihilarian Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Bradham is not a 3-4 OLB, no pass rush ability Mario is not clearly a 3-4 DE or OLB Dareus is not clearly a 3-4 NT Williams is not clearly a 3-4 NT or 3-4 DE Brown is not a + MLB Lawson is not a +OLB If 6 out of 7 players in your defensive front are stuck between positions or below average you will not get good results. Communication is the worst I've seen in a Bills defense this late in the season. I really don't see this changing. Sok, Rex knows what he is doing! BTW, Sacks don't matter..
BADOLBILZ Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Rex lost both safeties. Also a corner, but why bring that up now? And Schwartz gained a linebacker in Spikes who promptly went away. You can alter reality however you like but it doesn't change how it unfolded for the rest of us. Spikes and Searcy went away because Rex didn't want them. Leodis was replaced by Darby.......who is better. How a criticism of Rex and Whaley fits your apologist narrative for them here I don't know. If this defense was doing what it's personnel was constructed to do......rush the passer without needing to blitz.......then we'd be talking about how Corey Graham should be going to a pro bowl and what a nice improvement Duke Williams had made because QB's would be throwing balls up for grabs the way Mariota did at the end of the Titans game. But Rex is insisting on playing it his way from the get-go. And subsequently his corners, linebackers and safeties are being challenged to finish plays by the best athletes in the game. Guess which ones aren't holding up? The reason Aaron Williams got thru last season with the same busted neck was because he had a fraction of the work to do in Schwartz D. This defense is taxing guys to do things they can't..........but keep expecting Preston Brown and Bradham to traverse the field and make shoestring solo tackles on much better athletes in space and see how that works for you. It's actually been something of a miracle that Brown and Bradham have avoided injury with as much as they are being asked to do and with ZERO reserve help. I have no doubt that Rex will eventually implement his D and it will be effective. That might be with these guys, but more likely with the addition and subtraction of some very costly personnel.......like Mo Wilkerson in and Mario out, NT in and Kyle Williams out, etc. But risking a season to install a defense is not good head coaching. The first half fell down very sweet for this team.......they got the good teams at home.....5 home games......and had 3 dogs on the road...including a neutral site game......and coming out of that 4-4 was not a case of getting the most out of your team. It's going to take a lot of pounding to make these pegs fit in the meantime and avoid blowing a gift opportunity to make the playoffs for the first time in a little while(since it's unfair to talk about just how long it's been ).
dave mcbride Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 The title of this thread is Defense is Still Average. I don't think they are that good. Mediocre would be my word. Every QB that comes into the Ralph is good for 300+ with a total offense near 400. That is mediocre. I'm glad the Bills won but I have very little confidence going forward. That sieve like defense that can't pressure, cover in the flat or stop screens is going to hold them back for sure. Totally agree with the post above. Average and mediocre mean the same thing -- quite literally.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Bradham is not a 3-4 OLB, no pass rush ability Mario is not clearly a 3-4 DE or OLB Dareus is not clearly a 3-4 NT Williams is not clearly a 3-4 NT or 3-4 DE Brown is not a + MLB Lawson is not a +OLB If 6 out of 7 players in your defensive front are stuck between positions or below average you will not get good results. Communication is the worst I've seen in a Bills defense this late in the season. I really don't see this changing. Agreed, these guys were assembled to play on Wanny and Schwartz 4-3 defenses. Dareus is the exception......he was a great 3-4 DE at Alabama but as we found out, he is BETTER attacking. Maybe in 5 years he will be a better fit at NT but right now he is a dominant penetrator being asked to do a fraction of what he can do. But Lawson just isn't a guy who should be getting snaps anywhere. He was washed up LAST year. After the Chiefs game last year I would have put his chances of returning in 2015 at nil. Hearing Rex and the media talk Manny up this offseason was concerning to me........but I had a lot of faith in Rex maximizing this personnel and I assumed they'd be in nickel most of the time anyway. Which they are.......but not for the reasons I envisioned....and Manny is religiously unable to make those edge plays when he is on the field.
GG Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Agreed, these guys were assembled to play on Wanny and Schwartz 4-3 defenses. Rex is stubborn, but so are the players. You said that the players are used to the changes in defensive schemes. That they are, but doesn't mean that they were up for the challenge of each change. They definitely played worse when the defense didn't highlight their special skills. I'm not going to be stupid and claim that Rex's scheme is working to perfection, but I understand where he's going with this over the long term. Tell me exactly where a half-assed approach to changing a defensive scheme has worked? I think his ego is big enough to sacrifice a few games to prove his point and keep hammering his system into place. That's a sign of a coach who's secure in his job for now. You are right, Mario is as good as gone after this year. I think he's pulling the same disappearing act he perfected in Wanny's defenses. Of course lining him up wider plays more to his strengths. But I also expect a $15 million pro-bowl end to consistently win one on one matchups with average RTs at least once a game. Case in point, Houston only needed to turn it up for one series last night against much better OLs than what Mario has faced this year, and that sealed the Bears' win. I'm not absolving Rex at all, but much too little attention is paid to poor individual performance by the marquee players.
FireChan Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 Rex is stubborn, but so are the players. You said that the players are used to the changes in defensive schemes. That they are, but doesn't mean that they were up for the challenge of each change. They definitely played worse when the defense didn't highlight their special skills. I'm not going to be stupid and claim that Rex's scheme is working to perfection, but I understand where he's going with this over the long term. Tell me exactly where a half-assed approach to changing a defensive scheme has worked? I think his ego is big enough to sacrifice a few games to prove his point and keep hammering his system into place. That's a sign of a coach who's secure in his job for now. You are right, Mario is as good as gone after this year. I think he's pulling the same disappearing act he perfected in Wanny's defenses. Of course lining him up wider plays more to his strengths. But I also expect a $15 million pro-bowl end to consistently win one on one matchups with average RTs at least once a game. Case in point, Houston only needed to turn it up for one series last night against much better OLs than what Mario has faced this year, and that sealed the Bears' win. I'm not absolving Rex at all, but much too little attention is paid to poor individual performance by the marquee players. I think there's something to the players not fully buying in. They may have given it an honest shot earlier in the season, but they're definitely "pushing back" after it didn't work out.
Reed83HOF Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 I think there's something to the players not fully buying in. They may have given it an honest shot earlier in the season, but they're definitely "pushing back" after it didn't work out. It really is this. Looking at it from the players perspective, they loved Schwartz. Didn't Kyle say he would chain him to his desk so he wouldn't leave? He used a system that played to everyone's strengths and they were very successful. Players take a lot of pride in being successful in what they do. For us, basically our whole DL made the probowl; which is a great feat and shows how good they really were. Now you clean house with the coaches and bring in Rex Ryan, after going through life with Dougie, this was a breathe of fresh air. While I am sure they all hated to lose Schwartz, they got Rex Ryan who is beloved by his former players and known to be a pretty darn good D coach. You listen to your coach pumping you up in the locker room and his interviews saying we will be the best D ever etc. As a player you buy in and work and grind, but you don't see success on the filed for many reasons. It is very natural to say, this is going the way it should, we all played damn good last year, Held the Top QBs to nothing and are getting shredded this year. Naturally you are going to push back and ask to be put in a position to succeed. These players yeas the make a $hit ton of money, but they want to win games... We have seen this time and time again, good coaches make adjustments to fit the system around their players and not force a system on the players. It is perfectly fine for Rex to have a vision and move forward each off-season to acquiring those players to reach it, but he is sacrificing this season as a result. There is a good chance that this rolls over into next season. It is a shame because we could easily have a much better record and be in a better position if we kept last year's scheme and added this offense to it. Rex and his staff talk about execution, that appears to be a result of what I mentioned above and that some these players do not have the talent/skill to execute his scheme. Is that on the players - maybe if they willfully hold back, but it really falls back to poor coaching that basically says it's my system and the scheme is fine... Badol nailed it for me. As he typically does; he was spot on...
John from Riverside Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 My point is you could make the exact same excuses last year, except last year you didn't have to because the defense wasn't ****. Rex, the great defensive coach lost a safety! Time to pack it in, no way to do anything after losing a safety. To be fair...the defense does not "suck" They most certainly are not as good as they were last year......and that is a huge problem
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