hondo in seattle Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 I agree the defense is underperforming. But why? Execution or scheme? Does it matter? The two are related. Players will execute certain schemes better than others. In any case, execution and scheme are both Rex's responsibility. And today we gave up 397 yards to the Fins. That's not good. That wasn't a great D out there. Rex has enough talent on the defensive roster that we should expect better.
RyanC883 Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 The scheme and missed tackles were annoying. Doesn't have to be either/or. Tanny had ALL FREAKING DAY to pass most of the time. And I saw more missed tackles today by generally dependable people like P. Brown than ever before. Overall another embarrassing outing by the D. The secondary is carrying this D right now. The line and LB's are an embarrassment. Going from a top unit to a bottom unit.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 What do you think of TT now?LOL If you're looking for me to fellate him for an 11/12 performance where his rbs gained 200+ yards you can keep waiting. We've all seen this !@#$ing dog and pony show before.
ganesh Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 The scheme and missed tackles were annoying. Doesn't have to be either/or. Tanny had ALL FREAKING DAY to pass most of the time. And I saw more missed tackles today by generally dependable people like P. Brown than ever before. Overall another embarrassing outing by the D. The secondary is carrying this D right now. The line and LB's are an embarrassment. Going from a top unit to a bottom unit. That is so incorrect. Even the announcers mentioned that Ryan was making quick passes to the RBs and WR on the flat and getting yards after catch. There were very few plays where Tannehill had time to throw. The issue was poor tackling by our LBs. Also, Landry is a specimen. He can make tough catches and pull ball away from defenders.
OhDozeBills Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Anyone who thinks the D did their job today because they only gave up 17 is kidding themselves. They were very fortunate it wasn't a lot more and were getting gashed all day. Mario was a complete non factor. Barely noticed Dareus and Hughes finally made some big plays. This is supposed to be a dominant D and is average at best. No sustained QB pressure and run D is weak. I don't think the players are buying into the scheme. I'm also so sick of how confused they look and not being ready or in place before the snap. Schwartz's D was much better suited for them
Reed83HOF Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 The concept is that Schwartz was asked to stay on staff and chose to leave. That means a different defense. The players need to get over it and get their head out of their arse. The overpursuit and lack of discipline on defense is what sucked, not the system. They are not being coached to overpursue and leave themselves with bad angles or get blocked out. Today is what you get when guys aren't doing their job. Because Schwartz left. On his own. You had to hire another D coordinator, ergo a new system. Guys aren't doing their jobs . Not much else to it. Honestly has little to do with Schwartz and more about knowing what plays to call with the talent you have. Wide 9 is wide 9, 3-4 is 3-4 and 4-3 is 4-3. Your personnel was built with great pass rushing front four, you rush with them. You are not paying that line that $ to not do that... It is the same song and dance we have seen before throughout the league: 1.) Lack of alignment within the organization between the HC and GM. Why pay Darues that money to play a position that he isn't built for and aren't to his strengths, same with Hughes, same with Mario. 2.) System coaches who believe more in their system instead of looking at the talent they have and trying to decide how to best use it. This season and the way it should have been approached by Rex is to develop the offense with Roman. Figure out what you have in OL, WR, RB and QB. Find your gaps and draft to shore those areas up. Don't mess with the D, add some wrinkles here and there, but leave what worked and build off it based on the talent you have. If you are a system guy, as players come and go you can slowly transition to your system. The way we are doing it, asinine. We are wasting a year by trying to focus on a system and having to cut/trade good players in the off-season to fit this scheme and eat the cap hit. A problem with system coaches is that if they don't work out, you have to shed those system players once you can the coach. You should always look for a coach who can call plays and scheme based on the talents you have. While I liked the energy of the Rex hire and change of pace, what is happening now concerned me. I don't think he was the right hire. The right hire would have made changes in the bye week; he is too stubborn to do this. This will be his downfall here...bank it
What a Tuel Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 I think Preston Brown is better as an OLB than MLB Did Mario even play today? I at least saw Marcel chasing some guys Rex plays all man way too much which leaves a lot of open space when a tackle is missed like the one Brown missed on Miller http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/11/08/jerry-hughes-redeems-himself-in-a-momentum-changing-way/ "Hughes hadn't even played on the left side since college at TCU six-plus years ago. But through the week, coaches wanted to slide Mario Williams over the guard. In response, Miami then slid center Mike Pouncey over to double Williams. And coach Rex Ryan knew that Hughes' combination of speed and explosion could give Fox fits." Hughes had a big day because Mario drew double team.
nucci Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Of course they made some good plays. Point me to where I said they didn't? No, you didn't say it but your implication is obvious
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 I think the biggest issue is the defense is never set when the ball is snapped. They are constantly communicating and moving around and the other team is snapping the ball during the movement and conversation. The secondary is the biggest culprit but also happening in the LB corps as well. I can see moving with motion but it seems they are never ready for the play
GunnerBill Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 The concept is that Schwartz was asked to stay on staff and chose to leave. He was not asked to stay as DC. He was told Thurman was coming and asked to stay in some other role (whether as Assistant Head Coach or a consultant or a special defensive assistant or as a plain old position coach I have no idea). I think the biggest issue is the defense is never set when the ball is snapped. They are constantly communicating and moving around and the other team is snapping the ball during the movement and conversation. The secondary is the biggest culprit but also happening in the LB corps as well. I can see moving with motion but it seems they are never ready for the play Yep. And that was still happening yesterday. I hoped one of the simplifications was going to be more just line up and play rather than all the scampering about pre-snap. We actually did it one play in the 3rd Quarter where Tannehill didn't complete the pass. The Dolphins ran two receivers out to the left and Gilmore stood there two on one doing the usual waving of hands and shouting at Robey and Robey instead of sprinting up to face off the other guy stuck to his guns and ended up around the ball breaking up the pass. This defense has that level of individual talent sometimes rather than racing about trying to get into the perfect defensive look just let them line up and play.
xsoldier54 Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Average is a stretch. This defense has been putrid for most of the season. They better get it figured out or the next two games could get ugly.
bananathumb Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Apparently we have lousy linebackers, but they are the same ones from the last couple years. You know, when they were good. Rex needs to get Bradham and Brown to step it up and make an occasional correct read and professional tackle.
GunnerBill Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Apparently we have lousy linebackers, but they are the same ones from the last couple years. You know, when they were good. Rex needs to get Bradham and Brown to step it up and make an occasional correct read and professional tackle. Bradham in particular I am not sure is a fit for this scheme. I actually still think Brown is having an ok season, not as good as last year's granted, but yesterday was the first time I have really thought he was part of the problem.
The Big Cat Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Apparently we have lousy linebackers, but they are the same ones from the last couple years. You know, when they were good. Rex needs to get Bradham and Brown to step it up and make an occasional correct read and professional tackle. Bradham in particular I am not sure is a fit for this scheme. I actually still think Brown is having an ok season, not as good as last year's granted, but yesterday was the first time I have really thought he was part of the problem. I would guess that on 40% of plays there are three or four players off the LOS who have NO CLUE what is going on.
Nihilarian Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Average is a stretch. This defense has been putrid for most of the season. They better get it figured out or the next two games could get ugly. This is what I think about, because I'm not looking forward to that Patriots game in two weeks. Especially If Ryan runs that same soft coverage scheme with the DB's 10 yards off the line. Even Fitz with his quick release is a concern. 16 first downs passing to Tallywhacker! Currently the Bills are #15 overall in total defense, but still 22nd against the pass. 27th in sacks, 29th in sack percentage. Rex Ryan says he isn't worried about sacks, and yet those pressures, hurries, hits are all so important to how well a defense does. When the team doesn't get pressure on the QB it causes so much more problems for the secondary, and means they have to stay in pass coverage longer. Considering how bad the Bills are this year in getting pressure on the opposing QB it just shows me how good a job Gilmore, Darby, Robey are playing this year. What really bothers me is that this years defense really could have been so special in the right scheme.
Not at the table Karlos Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 I would guess that on 40% of plays there are three or four players off the LOS who have NO CLUE what is going on. yup. There were times a guy was trying to figure out where he was supposed to be after the ball was snapped. Can't be complex when the ball is out in 1 second
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 17 points allowed isn't too shabby if you look around the league.
MDH Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 I just honestly was expecting something different coming out of the bye Marcel? Mario? Hughes picked it up in the 2nd half I didnt expect much from Kyle's replacement because I am just not high on those guys...... Still would have hung onto Red Bryant To be fair to Mario they were lining him and Hughes on the same side of the formation for a lot of the day. This is part of what freed Hughes up with single teams because the Phins were committing two guys to Mario on the inside. I wouldn't expect Mario to have a lot of success at a DT and I would totally question the scheme if it wasn't for Hughes making big plays because of the single teams he saw. The thing I'm mostly concerned about is that it appears they're using Dareus as a space eater instead of letting him penetrate and make plays. It's mind boggling why they'd do this as it's the type of thing you do when you have playmakers at LB and just an average big bodied guy at DT. It's the exact opposite for the Bills and they are not utilizing Dareus to the best of his abilities. Apparently we have lousy linebackers, but they are the same ones from the last couple years. You know, when they were good. Rex needs to get Bradham and Brown to step it up and make an occasional correct read and professional tackle. They were good in a different scheme, one where the DL was allowed to penetrate and disrupt the offense and all they had to do is come in and clean up. Now the D is filtering the plays towards them with the expectation that they'll read the play, fill the right hole - and actually make a tackle- and they are failing.
Nihilarian Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) To be fair to Mario they were lining him and Hughes on the same side of the formation for a lot of the day. This is part of what freed Hughes up with single teams because the Phins were committing two guys to Mario on the inside. I wouldn't expect Mario to have a lot of success at a DT and I would totally question the scheme if it wasn't for Hughes making big plays because of the single teams he saw. The thing I'm mostly concerned about is that it appears they're using Dareus as a space eater instead of letting him penetrate and make plays. It's mind boggling why they'd do this as it's the type of thing you do when you have playmakers at LB and just an average big bodied guy at DT. It's the exact opposite for the Bills and they are not utilizing Dareus to the best of his abilities. They were good in a different scheme, one where the DL was allowed to penetrate and disrupt the offense and all they had to do is come in and clean up. Now the D is filtering the plays towards them with the expectation that they'll read the play, fill the right hole - and actually make a tackle- and they are failing. Excellent points! Sad to say that most of the fans just don't see this, and keep asking what is wrong with the defense. Before Yesterday Jerry Hughes one sack, Kyle Williams one sack, Marcell Dareus one sack, Mario Williams three sacks in seven games. After yesterday Jerry Hughes getting two sacks he now has three sacks, and nobody else had a sack. Kyle Williams isn't Pat Williams, and one is a space eater while the other is a quicker, faster gap penetrator. The same thing with Dareus, as the team didn't spend a #3 overall pick on the guy hoping he is a pure gap controller. If you ask a DE that weighs 254 lbs to constantly take on a 300+ lb OT, and perhaps be chipped by the TE, RB he won't ever get to the QB. Because that same thing is happening on the other side to the heavier 292 lb DE. That wide nine defense put Hughes, Mario on the outside of the OT's shoulder which gave them a faster path to the QB, and made the offense spread out. Thus leaving wider gaps in the line, and when the LBers stepped up to plug those gaps pre snap the O linemen don't know who is coming and who isn't. This scheme clearly allowed the defense to get more pressure on the QB more often while also helping the secondary because the QB was forced to make reads faster, and get the ball out faster. Thus forcing the QB prone to making more mistakes. Edited November 9, 2015 by Nihilarian
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 They were not expecting this many screens - that was very clear. The lining up landry behind another receiver completely negates a pass rush - and if the linebacker can't get over there and make a play its 15 yards easy. Then they had a couple really well timed screen passes to miller where our d-line was completely fooled. We also had 2 clutch 3rd down sacks and a stop at the half that were huge. They need to be better - but i don't think it was a scheme issue, or a coaching issue. Players get penalties because they don't like getting beat, and hope they can pull a jersey without the ref seeing it, its not rex saying "tug his jersey".
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