Defense is still average

[3rdand12]

Their w/l/ record is not very good.

 

This post, while sensible, isn't the most positive one I have ever read. Not that it should be mind you, but why take him to task when you don't sound so positive either?

I suppose i am more patient then some folks Bill.

Because i dont have an immediate fix in mind done't mean I have lost faith or hope. Continuous improvement is my motto. And since we were flatlined by the Patriots i hit reset for my hopes of instant gratification. Seems many of us got ahead of ourselves. Not all mind you : )

Thanks Bill, for keeping me real !!

[JohnC]

I suppose i am more patient then some folks Bill.

Because i dont have an immediate fix in mind done't mean I have lost faith or hope. Continuous improvement is my motto. And since we were flatlined by the Patriots i hit reset for my hopes of instant gratification. Seems many of us got ahead of ourselves. Not all mind you : )

Thanks Bill, for keeping me real !!

The general point that the critics are making is the RR took a defense that played at a high level and with good coordination and altered the system to the point that players (most notably Mario) are not a good fit. Dareus and Mario are two corner stone players who are not playing to the level that they did prior to the coach's arrival. Ask yourself why?

 

Now an argument is made that it takes time to get the right players to fit the coach's system. Wouldn't the smarter approach have been to keep with the system that has worked marvelously and maximized the talents of the players that are currently on the roster? That's what smart coaches do. That is not what the colorful Rex Ryan did.

 

If new players were brought in who fit Rex's scheme that would make more sense than introducing a new scheme with the players who excelled in another scheme.

 

The problem isn't that the players aren't adapting to the scheme so much as it is the boastful HC not adapting to the players he inherited. Rex wanted to demonstrate how smart he is with his unique brand of defense. He outsmarted himself. If you don't believe me just check the record.

 

The bottom line is that the Bills were entering the season as a fringe wild-card team because the Patriots are so entrenched as divisional leaders. The margin of error for us is small. Rex has needlessly made that margin even smaller.

[Nihilarian]

 

All true.......and it's a FACT that this defense has been unnecessarily bad.

 

To me the value of the pressure that they are not getting is that pressure usually equates to turnovers.......traditionally the GREATEST statistical indicator or wins and losses.

 

I could care less about "sacks"......but hitting QB's makes them more likely to make ill advised throws or simply drop the football on contact.

 

Last year the Bills finished 3rd in the NFL in turnovers forced per game.

 

This year they are 14th.

 

Additionally.........I think hitting a QB early leads to a less effective QB late in the game.

 

The Bills haven't had the benefits of battering a QB this year.

 

The Bills offense has battled back from large deficits late in several games......but against NYG and Jax they looked fatigued and got beaten by stunning late TD drives.

If we can see this then so must Doug Whaley, and he must be fuming on how some of the defensive players are currently being misused. Whaley has been able to find and bring in so many good defensive players in his time as GM so I suspect he had a vision as to how good this years defense was supposed to be under Ryan. I would think that he must have thought he would see an improved version of Mike Pettine's defense, I know I did.

 

The new owners probably can't see whats specifically wrong this year, and given that they still must be concerned that the teams 1/4 billion dollar investment on that front four is not paying off in this scheme. I can only wonder if these new owners are happy with the head coach they hired.

 

 

Right now I have a love / hate relationship with Rex Ryan as the Bills head coach. I love Tyrod Taylor, Richie Incognito, and even Percy Harvin when I saw how much effort he put out on the field. I love how Rex Ryan embraced the community. How he had drinks with the local fans, and how he had his truck painted in a Bills theme. Rex is very, very likable!

But then so was Chan Gailey. Jauron's players loved him, and played their hearts out for him every game. Then we all saw how limited they were in their inability to win games. While there is still hope for this season at 4-4 the playoffs are looking very unlikely with 5 of the next 8 games on the road. Plus, the Bills play the Patriots again in New England in two weeks, and I can only wonder what records the defense will give up this game. I'm dreading this game.

 

 

I absolutely hate his big mouth, and his constant goading of other teams while giving them more incentive to win the game to shut him up. He is the polar opposite of Bill Belichick / Marv Levy in that regard, and others areas too.

I hate all the penalties this team has accrued this season. Mostly because they give the opponent first downs, and ruin a series of plays and team effort because of stupid player mistakes. This is all about team discipline, and poor coaching. I hate the inflexibility in the current defensive scheme where its my way or nothing.

 

I never would have thought that Rex Ryan was the type of coach that forced his system on players that don't fit his scheme.

[RI Bills Fan]

I really don't understand all of the whining and teeth gnashing about the defense. If you take a look at the four losses it's obvious that with the notable exception of the Cheatriots game the offensive deficiencies were the major problem in those losses.

 

Against the Jags the offense put us in a huge hole that we couldn't quite climb out of despite a valiant effort.

 

Against the G-Men and the Bengals the offense, for various reasons, just didn't get the job done.

 

I know everyone was expecting the defense to be one of the best in the league but the season isn't over yet.

[26CornerBlitz]

Interesting!

 

@Andy_Benoit

#Dolphins #Bills Film: Hughes sack-fumble was outstanding spin move from wide-9 vs. RT Fox, who did not touch him.

[The Big Cat]

Let's talk about execution for a moment.

 

This is the swing pass to Miller that Brown had a chance to stop for no gain or loss of yards.

 

"Analysts" on this board will tell you the linebackers are "being asked to cover too much ground."

 

Others, like me, believe the players are taking poor angles, are lining up wrong, are not communicating well and--on plays like these--doing a lousy job of executing, in general--particularly the linebackers.

 

So. Here's the moment when Tannehill throws the ball. Now, if you believe the playcall intended Landry to be bracketed by FIVE defenders within 20 feet of one another. Then, yes, I would agree with your outrage. Because that's ludicrous.

 

If, however, you believe there is a blatant execution issue here, then, like me, you'll hope the players can get it right because MY GOD THIS COULDN'T HAVE BEEN WHAT THEIR ASSIGNMENTS WERE ON THIS PLAY:

 

This play was a HUGE momentum changer. Should have been broken up, leaving them with third and mile, instead it moved them into our territory, en route to a score.

[Jerry Christ]

It's not the D's physical play its the mental play...the penalities keep them on the field and in essence gives the other team good field position and first downs.

[reddogblitz]

Against the Jags the offense put us in a huge hole that we couldn't quite climb out of despite a valiant effort.

 

Except the offense (and Graham) got us back ahead only to have our D fail and shovel dirt back on us..

 

See the Monday Night Game between Bears and Chargers. Chargers got the ball down by 5 at the end of the game. and the Bears D stopped Philip from scoring, getting the Bears the win. That's how its supposed to work.

[FireChan]

 

Except the offense (and Graham) got us back ahead only to have our D fail and shovel dirt back on us..

 

See the Monday Night Game between Bears and Chargers. Chargers got the ball down by 5 at the end of the game. and the Bears D stopped Philip from scoring, getting the Bears the win. That's how its supposed to work.

Well the offense is supposed to beat the defense. Depends on your perspective.

Let's talk about execution for a moment.

 

This is the swing pass to Miller that Brown had a chance to stop for no gain or loss of yards.

 

"Analysts" on this board will tell you the linebackers are "being asked to cover too much ground."

 

Others, like me, believe the players are taking poor angles, are lining up wrong, are not communicating well and--on plays like these--doing a lousy job of executing, in general--particularly the linebackers.

 

So. Here's the moment when Tannehill throws the ball. Now, if you believe the playcall intended Landry to be bracketed by FIVE defenders within 20 feet of one another. Then, yes, I would agree with your outrage. Because that's ludicrous.

 

If, however, you believe there is a blatant execution issue here, then, like me, you'll hope the players can get it right because MY GOD THIS COULDN'T HAVE BEEN WHAT THEIR ASSIGNMENTS WERE ON THIS PLAY:

 

This play was a HUGE momentum changer. Should have been broken up, leaving them with third and mile, instead it moved them into our territory, en route to a score.

Maybe their assignments are the 3 eligible receivers on that side.

[The Big Cat]

 

Except the offense (and Graham) got us back ahead only to have our D fail and shovel dirt back on us..

 

See the Monday Night Game between Bears and Chargers. Chargers got the ball down by 5 at the end of the game. and the Bears D stopped Philip from scoring, getting the Bears the win. That's how its supposed to work.

 

 

Well the offense is supposed to beat the defense. Depends on your perspective.

 

I firmly believe that if the ref rightly eats his whistle on the Robey PI, the Jags fail to pick up that 4th and 15 999/1,000 times.

[Boatdrinks]

Let's talk about execution for a moment.

 

This is the swing pass to Miller that Brown had a chance to stop for no gain or loss of yards.

 

"Analysts" on this board will tell you the linebackers are "being asked to cover too much ground."

 

Others, like me, believe the players are taking poor angles, are lining up wrong, are not communicating well and--on plays like these--doing a lousy job of executing, in general--particularly the linebackers.

 

So. Here's the moment when Tannehill throws the ball. Now, if you believe the playcall intended Landry to be bracketed by FIVE defenders within 20 feet of one another. Then, yes, I would agree with your outrage. Because that's ludicrous.

 

If, however, you believe there is a blatant execution issue here, then, like me, you'll hope the players can get it right because MY GOD THIS COULDN'T HAVE BEEN WHAT THEIR ASSIGNMENTS WERE ON THIS PLAY:

 

 

This play was a HUGE momentum changer. Should have been broken up, leaving them with third and mile, instead it moved them into our territory, en route to a score.

 

Hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a magic bullet theory. Players making execution errors clearly means they are not a good fit for Rex Ryan's defense and are being misused. This is evident because they ran a different system well. Therefore everyone should be fired and the Bills should start over.

Now, yours was an excellent post. Why anyone would think that players leaving their responsibility and aggressively over pursing misdirection plays is curious. They are not being asked to cover any more ground than before as the field is the same width it was last year. These are excuses being made for players not executing in order to advance an agenda. The agenda being that Jim Schwartz should have been hired as HC. He wasn't, get over it. Every coach in the league does things their own way. Schwartz's teams in Detroit always underachieved their talent level. But this D is on the players. There are no missing pieces, or any players being asked to do a job they are not capable of. These LBs are just using bad technique, overrunning plays and getting too close to the LOS allowing OLs to block them out. It's just so much easier to give the players a pass though, and wish for last years scheme . Blame Marrone if anything, he left and caused Schwartz's departure. Rex isn't going anywhere soon. Players just need to do their job and this D will be fine.

[FireChan]

 

 

 

I firmly believe that if the ref rightly eats his whistle on the Robey PI, the Jags fail to pick up that 4th and 15 999/1,000 times.

As do I. However, the refs didn't mess up the ensuing plays that resulted in a TD.

Hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a magic bullet theory. Players making execution errors clearly means they are not a good fit for Rex Ryan's defense and are being misused. This is evident because they ran a different system well. Therefore everyone should be fired and the Bills should start over.

Now, yours was an excellent post. Why anyone would think that players leaving their responsibility and aggressively over pursing misdirection plays is curious. They are not being asked to cover any more ground than before as the field is the same width it was last year. These are excuses being made for players not executing in order to advance an agenda. The agenda being that Jim Schwartz should have been hired as HC. He wasn't, get over it. Every coach in the league does things their own way. Schwartz's teams in Detroit always underachieved their talent level. But this D is on the players. There are no missing pieces, or any players being asked to do a job they are not capable of. These LBs are just using bad technique, overrunning plays and getting too close to the LOS allowing OLs to block them out. It's just so much easier to give the players a pass though, and wish for last years scheme . Blame Marrone if anything, he left and caused Schwartz's departure. Rex isn't going anywhere soon. Players just need to do their job and this D will be fine.

You do realize that one play from one game is not indicative of the entire defense?

[The Big Cat]

As do I. However, the refs didn't mess up the ensuing plays that resulted in a TD.

 

You do realize that one play from one game is not indicative of the entire defense?

 

 

No, but it's one of three consecutive plays in the Miami game that--I guarantee you--left the impression that, on the whole, this defense is ineffective.

 

So, you can either make the argument that three plays a defense makes (as it's clear many in this thread are). Or you don't. You gotta pick one and go with it, buddy.

 

I picked the play because--as I mentioned--it had HUGE momentum implications. And I think many watching at home were thusly inspired, then offered their ire in this very thread.

[FireChan]

 

 

No, but it's one of three consecutive plays in the Miami game that--I guarantee you--left the impression that, on the whole, this defense is ineffective.

 

So, you can either make the argument that three plays a defense makes (as it's clear many in this thread are). Or you don't. You gotta pick one and go with it, buddy.

 

I picked the play because--as I mentioned--it had HUGE momentum implications. And I think many watching at home were thusly inspired, then offered their ire in this very thread.

I've said that the defense has been on-the-whole too ineffective before the Dolphins game. Don't lump me in your fictional group.

 

I haven't even watched the Dolphins tape yet. Your example supports your argument. It isn't the end-all be-all because nothing ever is.

Edited November 12, 2015 by FireChan

[26CornerBlitz]

@LRiddickESPN

Simple, straight-forward 4 man rush/man coverage schemes used by #Bills defense last wk vs Miami. Rex letting his players play. Smart move.

[GunnerBill]

I think everyone criticising the Rex D here has said it is leaving the players (especially the linebackers and safeties) confused. Putting up an image that shows them confused does no defend the scheme rather it further makes the point that the scheme is not currently looking like a fit for these players.

 

As for the idea that we have an "agenda" to make Schwartz the Head Coach... I am arguably the biggest Schwartz fan on this board - I did not want him as Head Coach. FireChan is criticising Rex's scheme - he did not want Schwartz as Head Coach unless I am misremembering? I don't know where #BADOL and others were.... but the agenda here is not "we wanted Schwartz" that has got nothing to do with it. The agenda here is "Rex has made a very good bordering on elite defense very average by trying to fix what wasn't broken."

Edited November 12, 2015 by GunnerBill

[The Big Cat]

I think everyone criticising the Rex D here has said it is leaving the players (especially the linebackers and safeties) confused. Putting up an image that shows them confused does no defend the scheme rather it further makes the point that the scheme is not currently looking like a fit for these players.

 

As for the idea that we have an "agenda" to make Schwartz the Head Coach... I am arguably the biggest Schwartz fan on this board - I did not want him as Head Coach. FireChan is criticising Rex's scheme - he did not want Schwartz as Head Coach unless I am misremembering? I don't know where #BADOL and others were.... but the agenda here is not "we wanted Schwartz" that has got nothing to do with it. The agenda here is "Rex has made a very good bordering on elite defense very average by trying to fix what wasn't broken."

 

Do we know where this team ranked in different categories through eight games last year?

 

This would be very important to the conversation.

 

In fact, without knowing it for sure, the conversation isn't really worth having.

[FireChan]

I think everyone criticising the Rex D here has said it is leaving the players (especially the linebackers and safeties) confused. Putting up an image that shows them confused does no defend the scheme rather it further makes the point that the scheme is not currently looking like a fit for these players.

 

As for the idea that we have an "agenda" to make Schwartz the Head Coach... I am arguably the biggest Schwartz fan on this board - I did not want him as Head Coach. FireChan is criticising Rex's scheme - he did not want Schwartz as Head Coach unless I am misremembering? I don't know where #BADOL and others were.... but the agenda here is not "we wanted Schwartz" that has got nothing to do with it. The agenda here is "Rex has made a very good bordering on elite defense very average by trying to fix what wasn't broken."

I wasn't gung-ho for Schwartz as HC, I mainly wanted an Offensive HC who would retain Schwartz as DC. I thought hiring Rex (which we all knew would send Schwartz on his way) was throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Kelly the Dog]

Do we know where this team ranked in different categories through eight games last year?

 

This would be very important to the conversation.

 

In fact, without knowing it for sure, the conversation isn't really worth having.

They were doing pretty good but they got abused by the Patriots, too. They couldn't stop the Chargers. They had somewhat good fortune because, for instance, when they played the Bears both Jeffrey and Marshall were injured. The Lions were injured. Bridgewater hadn't really come into his own yet. They were much better than now though.

[The Big Cat]

They were doing pretty good but they got abused by the Patriots, too. They couldn't stop the Chargers. They had somewhat good fortune because, for instance, when they played the Bears both Jeffrey and Marshall were injured. The Lions were injured. Bridgewater hadn't really come into his own yet. They were much better than now though.

 

Well, why wonder about anything? This is the Internet, after all.