Defense is still average

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

Interesting that for all the praise Wade is getting for his work in Denver, he did exactly the same in Houston when he moved Mario off the 4-3 DE, and suddenly Mario became expendable.

 

 

 

This is not accurate.

 

Wade's D is pass rusher friendly.

 

Mario was having an excellent year......maybe his best......under Wade before suffering a torn pectoral muscle and going on IR.

 

He was allowed to leave because they had some very promising young, CHEAP pass rushers and a lot of big contracts already.

 

Those pass rushers didn't pan out......and they ended up using the #1 overall pick in the draft on Jadeveon Clowney to fill the role that Mario would have played.

 

It's was a very Bills-ian turn of events for Houston.

 

When Rex was hired, Mario......wishfully thinking.......told Rex he'd like to play the position he played in Wade's 3-4.

 

But, of course....Rex can't find a middle ground.....he only plays Rex D...so a season that should have been a year long coming of age story is now going to be a struggle.

 

Personally.....I think Tyrod is going to save Rex here in Buffalo.

 

His D was never going to do that anyway.......all the more reason for him not to be so unwilling to adapt to his personnel.

 

But it would be perfectly Bills-ian to dump Mario and Kyle......eat a bunch of dead money......then spend big money and or picks on 2 gap personnel only to have Rex get fired and have to use their top pick on a pass rushing DE.

[3rdand12]

 

FWIW.......the Ty Powell talk from Rex was just hot air.

 

He looked terrible in camp/preseason before his knee injury.

 

I was as surprised as anyone at how much he talked up Powell in spring so I had to see for myself.

 

I wasn't referring to the lack of substitution.......I meant that it seems that they seem to be either making the tackle, missing it or at least in the picture on every play. Not uncommon at all for every down LB's to play every snap. Kiko played every defensive snap of his rookie season.

Honestly had no real opinion he did get talked up. So why did the Bills not beef up the LBs ?

Just seems odd under a Whaley/Ryan defense they would not have nailed that down

[FireChan]

 

This is not accurate.

 

Wade's D is pass rusher friendly.

 

Mario was having an excellent year......maybe his best......under Wade before suffering a torn pectoral muscle and going on IR.

 

He was allowed to leave because they had some very promising young, CHEAP pass rushers and a lot of big contracts already.

 

Those pass rushers didn't pan out......and they ended up using the #1 overall pick in the draft on Jadeveon Clowney to fill the role that Mario would have played.

 

It's was a very Bills-ian turn of events for Houston.

 

When Rex was hired, Mario......wishfully thinking.......told Rex he'd like to play the position he played in Wade's 3-4.

 

But, of course....Rex can't find a middle ground.....he only plays Rex D...so a season that should have been a year long coming of age story is now going to be a struggle.

 

Personally.....I think Tyrod is going to save Rex here in Buffalo.

 

His D was never going to do that anyway.......all the more reason for him not to be so unwilling to adapt to his personnel.

 

But it would be perfectly Bills-ian to dump Mario and Kyle......eat a bunch of dead money......then spend big money and or picks on 2 gap personnel only to have Rex get fired and have to use their top pick on a pass rushing DE.

That's exactly what's going to happen. Rex will get his defense together by his third year and our window will be gone.

[3rdand12]

I simply don't understand why some fans refuse to acknowledge how one coaching staff can have the #4 defense, and with basically the very same players suddenly become mediocre to bad. Then say that nothing is wrong this year.

 

Most of us expected greatness, and not excuses!

I thought everyone knew the Defense is struggling at times?

That's exactly what's going to happen. Rex will get his defense together by his third year and our window will be gone.

well how do we prevent that then? Because a fatalistic attitude just brings down the whole gang.

Offer a viable solution please.

I think Rex will get the defense together before the end of the season but too late for playoffs.

[FireChan]

I thought everyone knew the Defense is struggling at times?

well how do we prevent that then? Because a fatalistic attitude just brings down the whole gang.

Offer a viable solution please.

I think Rex will get the defense together before the end of the season but too late for playoffs.

Key word.

 

Rex won't change and he won't be fired.

[3rdand12]

solution ?

[FireChan]

solution ?

There isn't one.

[3rdand12]

There isn't one.

You have not solved the equation then.

there is always a reasonable theoretical solve to an unreasonable problem. albeit theory.

try Chan. find an answer to seeing Rex turning the defense around. It can be done. just an uphill slog at this point perhaps. i dont feel that way per say. but we might have pissed enough games away to miss playoffs this year. and Rex Did say Playoffs. so the bstrd better figure it out quick. like Thursday quick

[BADOLBILZ]

Honestly had no real opinion he did get talked up. So why did the Bills not beef up the LBs ?

Just seems odd under a Whaley/Ryan defense they would not have nailed that down

 

As you know, the glass is always half full for Rex.

 

Remember when Cyrus K was getting propped up in the offseason? He was at the top of the depth chart for 4 months....until like one practice after they put the pads on.

[Jobot]

I've totally moved on from the defense at this point. They will be mediocre this year and will not improve until our expensive d-line contracts expire as we won't be able to afford guys at positions that are more critical to rex's scheme.

 

From this point on, it's on the offense and tyrod to come through and be the strength of the team.

 

Do you think Belicheck would run a defense that didn't fit his player strengths??? Rex is a joke of a coach.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Jobot

[GG]

 

This is not accurate.

 

Wade's D is pass rusher friendly.

 

Mario was having an excellent year......maybe his best......under Wade before suffering a torn pectoral muscle and going on IR.

 

He was allowed to leave because they had some very promising young, CHEAP pass rushers and a lot of big contracts already.

 

Those pass rushers didn't pan out......and they ended up using the #1 overall pick in the draft on Jadeveon Clowney to fill the role that Mario would have played.

 

It's was a very Bills-ian turn of events for Houston.

 

When Rex was hired, Mario......wishfully thinking.......told Rex he'd like to play the position he played in Wade's 3-4.

 

But, of course....Rex can't find a middle ground.....he only plays Rex D...so a season that should have been a year long coming of age story is now going to be a struggle.

 

Personally.....I think Tyrod is going to save Rex here in Buffalo.

 

His D was never going to do that anyway.......all the more reason for him not to be so unwilling to adapt to his personnel.

 

But it would be perfectly Bills-ian to dump Mario and Kyle......eat a bunch of dead money......then spend big money and or picks on 2 gap personnel only to have Rex get fired and have to use their top pick on a pass rushing DE.

 

That's all fine and dandy, except that Mario is not being called out for his lackluster play. You can criticize the scheme all you want, but the marquee player on the line is not winning many one on one matchups when he's going against average tackles. It's probably a battle of wits between him and Rex and to see who's the more stubborn one. So while there's rightful criticism of Ryan, few people are talking about Mario slouching again because the scheme doesn't fit his talents.

[BADOLBILZ]

I simply don't understand why some fans refuse to acknowledge how one coaching staff can have the #4 defense, and with basically the very same players suddenly become mediocre to bad. Then say that nothing is wrong this year.

 

The Bills currently 15th in net yards allowed 21st in pass defense, and not because of bad play by the CB's, as the lesser pressure on the opposing QB then longer they need to stay in pass coverage!

 

Sacks matter, and QB pressures, hits, hurries all matter because the more those things happen the more the QB tries to rush to get the ball out thus the more mistakes they make with the ball.

 

Eight games played is enough to see a bad scheme, and actually it very noticeable in week two against the Patriots. You know, the one where Brady set a Buffalo Bills franchise worst 466 yards passing by one player. That game the defensive scheme was a soft cover cushion that had the DB's play off the line 10 yards, and the front four got very little pressure on Brady. How little pressure on Brady you ask?

 

"Rex Ryan, Dennis Thurman and defensive coaching staff: Ryan told his team that this loss was on his shoulders, and so he's a natural place to start in the "down" column. Ryan's defensive game plan couldn't put pressure on Tom Brady-- the Bills disrupted (a sack, batted ball, passed defense or interception) only 9.8 percent of Brady's dropbacks, a lower rate than in any of the Bills' 2014 games -- and he never seemed to have an effective plan for stopping either Rob Gronkowski or Julian Edelman."

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/21042/bills-breakdowns-vs-patriots-start-with-rex-ryan-defensive-staff

 

 

We all knew and saw it with George Edwards, with Dave Wannstedt, and we saw the excitement that can come with a heavy blitzing scheme in Mike Pettine. In 2013 under Pettine the Bills had the #10 defense, and #4 in pass defense, #2 in sacks with 57 which were actually more they Schwartz had in 2014 which was 54. Most of us were expecting to see that Mike Pettine blitz heavy defense this year, and it just isn't happening.

 

The Bills are currently on pace to have a 26 sack season. So why on earth did the Bills just pony up the big money for Dareus, Hughes this year only to see them virtually wasted, and Dareus especially who has only one sack while being used for gap control.

 

Anyway, Bills fans have a solid reason to be frustrated, aggravated, and concerned about this years defense because most of us expected greatness, and not excuses!

 

All true.......and it's a FACT that this defense has been unnecessarily bad.

 

To me the value of the pressure that they are not getting is that pressure usually equates to turnovers.......traditionally the GREATEST statistical indicator or wins and losses.

 

I could care less about "sacks"......but hitting QB's makes them more likely to make ill advised throws or simply drop the football on contact.

 

Last year the Bills finished 3rd in the NFL in turnovers forced per game.

 

This year they are 14th.

 

Additionally.........I think hitting a QB early leads to a less effective QB late in the game.

 

The Bills haven't had the benefits of battering a QB this year.

 

The Bills offense has battled back from large deficits late in several games......but against NYG and Jax they looked fatigued and got beaten by stunning late TD drives.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

That's all fine and dandy, except that Mario is not being called out for his lackluster play. You can criticize the scheme all you want, but the marquee player on the line is not winning many one on one matchups when he's going against average tackles. It's probably a battle of wits between him and Rex and to see who's the more stubborn one. So while there's rightful criticism of Ryan, few people are talking about Mario slouching again because the scheme doesn't fit his talents.

 

 

Slouching again?

 

When has he been slouching?

 

When he wasn't injured in Houston he was very good.......and was looking great as an OLB under Wade.

 

He's been very good EVERY season in Buffalo.

 

If you watch the tape......he's getting some pressures.....but he's playing inside the tackle a lot and being asked to start in an unexplosive standup position and then diagnose run and protect 2 gaps before he can attack the QB.

 

For the most part the DL are doing what they are asked.

 

But teams aren't even bothering to run the ball up the middle because the outsides are WIDE open

[3rdand12]

 

As you know, the glass is always half full for Rex.

 

Remember when Cyrus K was getting propped up in the offseason? He was at the top of the depth chart for 4 months....until like one practice after they put the pads on.

Right. Rex the Motivator.

but i might hope the glass is at least half full for the HC!

I've totally moved on from the defense at this point. They will be mediocre this year and will not improve until our expensive d-line contracts expire as we won't be able to afford guys at positions that are more critical to rex's scheme.

 

From this point on, it's on the offense and tyrod to come through and be the strength of the team.

 

Do you think Belicheck would run a defense that didn't fit his player strengths??? Rex is a joke of a coach.

He does. he brings in players and has them fit his method or they leave . the transition to the new head coach has been a bit bumpy and kinda complicated apparently. But it's not unusual.

 

That's all fine and dandy, except that Mario is not being called out for his lackluster play. You can criticize the scheme all you want, but the marquee player on the line is not winning many one on one matchups when he's going against average tackles. It's probably a battle of wits between him and Rex and to see who's the more stubborn one. So while there's rightful criticism of Ryan, few people are talking about Mario slouching again because the scheme doesn't fit his talents.

He and Dareus have become pals. did MD get his mini fridge yet. maybe thats the issue?

[GG]

 

 

Slouching again?

 

When has he been slouching?

 

When he wasn't injured in Houston he was very good.......and was looking great as an OLB under Wade.

 

He's been very good EVERY season in Buffalo.

 

If you watch the tape......he's getting some pressures.....but he's playing inside the tackle a lot and being asked to start in an unexplosive standup position and then diagnose run and protect 2 gaps before he can attack the QB.

 

For the most part the DL are doing what they are asked.

 

But teams aren't even bothering to run the ball up the middle because the outsides are WIDE open

He took a while to get going his first year here, until he started getting called out.

[BackInDaDay]

i wanted to add something substative to the convo on our D.. so i ran our D against Miami over and over for the last hour, and haven't gotten to halftime.. and i'm giving myself a headache..

i can tell you this much.. they were a confused front 7 in that half, but weren't caught out of position too often..

 

we were primarily running a 4-3 under / nickel against their 01 groups, where our closed-side DEs became more of a 7 tech DE/SAM hybrid, than a traditional 5 tech DE

when they went to 11 or 12 groups, we took a DB off the field and brought Lawson in as a true SAM in a 4-3 under.. our closed-side DE than played a 5 tech

i think it was twice, that we split both our DTs into 3 techs and threatened A gap pressure, but didn't come..

 

we had a very tough time adjusting the front when Miami opened the 2nd quarter shifting their TE and H back from side to side. give the guys credit for talking it out before getting settled in for the snap, but with the linemen shifting from open to closed, while Lawson scampered to get to the strong side and Brown (always the Mike) traded places with Bradham.. there was a lot of moving pieces. occasionally, they didn't shift properly, leaving the vulnerable gaps that Tannehill didn't catch.. as a matter of fact, there was one snap where we were closed to their weak side, and Tannehill shifted his TE into our closed side.

 

lots of technical stuff in there for the average fan, so i'll leave you with my overall impression of what i saw..

 

a defense that was reacting to the offense to get themselves schematically arranged properly.. rather than a defense that was dictating terms. this put them a bit on their heels at the snap, but they were in position - more often than not - to make plays. maybe if my headache recedes, i'll check out the 2nd half, and see if we opened things up a bit - as in 'letting the dogs out'.

 

one last negative point.. IK was subbing for Hughes, and in the few times he was in, he may as well been on the sideline.. the kid was playing a tech they don't have a high enough number for, in a four pt stance, and by the time he ran into the OT and bounced off - the play was over.. enough.

 

one more positive point.. Bryant did a good job filling in for Kyle, and more than once, helped direct traffic on those shifting fronts

Edited November 12, 2015 by BackInDaDay

[Boatdrinks]

The planet where you can't come up with a schematic reason our CBs are playing so well.

Ahhhh, so if players are playing well, it's because they are good. If they are not playing well, it's scheme. Got it.

[FireChan]

Ahhhh, so if players are playing well, it's because they are good. If they are not playing well, it's scheme. Got it.

Nope. Enjoy a life without nuance.

[GunnerBill]

 

FWIW.......the Ty Powell talk from Rex was just hot air.

 

He looked terrible in camp/preseason before his knee injury.

 

 

I agree actually. I commented on here after either the first or 2nd pre-season game I forget which how poor he looked and how I thought depth there was an issue.

[Bill from NYC]

I don't understand why fans think the only way to stop a passing attack is by sacking the QB.

 

Right now the Bills rank 10th in opposing QB rating. So...? Seems like quarterbacks aren't nearly as effective as you're making them out to be, comparatively speaking.

 

They're also tied with the Seahawks at 5th in yards per attempt.

 

And they're 5th in completion percentage.

 

They're also 10th in yards per rushing attempt (3.9).

 

And sixth in rush yards per game.

 

So...I mean...?

 

If this is what Rex's ****ty defense looks like when we all think it's under performing....

Their w/l/ record is not very good.

well how do we prevent that then? Because a fatalistic attitude just brings down the whole gang.

Offer a viable solution please.

I think Rex will get the defense together before the end of the season but too late for playoffs.

This post, while sensible, isn't the most positive one I have ever read. Not that it should be mind you, but why take him to task when you don't sound so positive either?

Edited November 12, 2015 by Bill from NYC