Rejoice! For Kiko Has Returned and the Legend Lives!

[BuffaloBillsForever]

Not really much of a disagreement

 

You dont have it

 

Yeah. Just ignore advanced stats gradings and ignore casual fan stats like YPA, YPG, RYG and that will fit your narrative.

Edited November 7, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever

[John from Riverside]

 

Yeah. Just ignore advanced stats gradings and ignore casual fan stats like YPA, YPG, RYG and that will fit your narrative.

And make sure you dont look at the overall situation to support your arguement

 

and no

 

None of those stats mean anything halfway into a seasn

Edited November 7, 2015 by John from Hemet

[BuffaloBillsForever]

And make sure you dont look at the overall situation to support your arguement

 

and no

 

None of those stats mean anything halfway into a seasn

 

You don't get it obviously. I'm not basing it solely off of a half of season and a hamstring injury.

Edited November 7, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever

[John from Riverside]

 

You don't get it obviously. I'm not basing it solely off of a half of season and a hamstring injury.

So now your basing it on when a player was on another team (you know the one where he was like a top 5 back in the league) like you actually follow the what is going on in the front office....how coaches were using or not using him like you actually follow the team.

 

Make sure you cling to that little stat sheet for last year close to your chest......because that is all you really got.....one....down.....year

[BuffaloBillsForever]

So now your basing it on when a player was on another team (you know the one where he was like a top 5 back in the league) like you actually follow the what is going on in the front office....how coaches were using or not using him like you actually follow the team.

 

Make sure you cling to that little stat sheet for last year close to your chest......because that is all you really got.....one....down.....year

 

You have to remeber I am not like 99% of the people here. I am a football fan first and my favorite team is the Buffalo Bills.

 

I am not a casual. I follow the entire NFL VERY closely.

[John from Riverside]

 

You have to remeber I am not like 99% of the people here. I am a football fan first and my favorite team is the Buffalo Bills.

 

I am not a casual. I follow the entire NFL VERY closely.

Does that come with a secret super casual fan decoder ring

 

Does that help you see things better from your lazy boy?

 

God you are so full of ****

[Deranged Rhino]

 

You have to remeber I am not like 99% of the people here. I am a football fan first and my favorite team is the Buffalo Bills.

 

I am not a casual. I follow the entire NFL VERY closely.

 

And yet you don't have any understanding of how the salary cap works...

 

You've made the statement that McCoy isn't just on the decline but his "window is already closed" and his contract is an "albatross" for the Bills. Yet there's NO way to know for certain that McCoy's window is closed (and it's outright silly to make that kind of definitive declaration especially considering you're basing it entirely on stats without looking at context or actual game film), and the Bills have over $21 million in cap space headed into next off season even WITH Shady's "albatross" of a contract -- and that doesn't include restructuring Mario, Clay and releasing Leo. Come on, man. You can't say you follow the game VERY closely and not understand that the cap is fluid and what Shady got paid was in line with his talent level.

 

There are a lot of people on this board with excellent football minds whose opinion I disagree with quite often, yet still respect their understanding of the game. Badol being one. But you've yet to posit one football opinion with any substance that I recall, especially about McCoy. Step your game up.

[John from Riverside]

 

And yet you don't have any understanding of how the salary cap works...

 

You've made the statement that McCoy isn't just on the decline but his "window is already closed" and his contract is an "albatross" for the Bills. Yet there's NO way to know for certain that McCoy's window is closed (and it's outright silly to make that kind of definitive declaration especially considering you're basing it entirely on stats without looking at context or actual game film), and the Bills have over $21 million in cap space headed into next off season even WITH Shady's "albatross" of a contract -- and that doesn't include restructuring Mario, Clay and releasing Leo. Come on, man. You can't say you follow the game VERY closely and not understand that the cap is fluid and what Shady got paid was in line with his talent level.

 

There are a lot of people on this board with excellent football minds whose opinion I disagree with quite often, yet still respect their understanding of the game. Badol being one. But you've yet to posit one football opinion with any substance that I recall, especially about McCoy. Step your game up.

My problem with Mr. super casual fan is he is trying to guess right on the decline of Shady McCoy....let me repeat that...he is trying to GUESS right.....on the decline of a player of our Buffalo Bills.

 

That means he is sitting out there hoping for failure......which basically makes him troll slime.

 

That is putting aside the fact that there is simply not enough data to even KNOW if he is on the decline.....doesnt even have a year in the uniform.

 

As for others on the board.....I give Bado a lot of crap because he tends to go overboard with his opinions.....still like talking football with him because he has something to offer.....doesnt mean he is right all the time.

[BADOLBILZ]

I am with you in the sense that the "RBs are devalued" argument is not the same as "RBs are worthless in the NFL". Too many people make the mistake of conflating those two positions. The position became devalued because the rules of the game changed drastically a decade ago in an effort to up passing numbers and point totals. And what BADOL says is true in the sense a lot of guys who would have been RBs in the 80s and 90s in college / HS switched to WR where they could get the ball in space more often. That certainly had an effect on the talent pool of guys coming into the league.

 

But that doesn't mean there aren't extraordinary talents at the RB position anymore, or that teams don't need a running game to win in January. That's just taking it way too far.

 

Preseason?! Just stop dude. You're embarrassing yourself now. First off, preseason was the first year in a new scheme and it was practice. Forget the fact he was playing on one leg since week two of camp, even if he was healthy you're telling me that a single preseason game (in year one of a new system) is more indicative of where he is as a player compared to actual game footage from less than 7 months ago?

 

You're reaching now. You're a student of the game, go watch his games last year. You keep using those numbers (without any context mind you) as proof he's in decline. Go watch those games and see if you have the same answer.

 

You won't if you're honest.

 

We had this discussion last winter.......I did watch his play from last year.

 

As did his head coach, Chip Kelly.......who basically said that he felt he had to part ways with him because he was refusing to take those modest gains that were in front of him.

 

Those 20 yards or so that he leaves on the table each game equate to changes of possession and that is also why he is rushing for 4 ypc instead of 5.

 

He produces a couple nice runs every game and the fans that are new to him and are attracted to his celebrity/persona love that........but at the end of the day he's run for 2.9 ypc and no touchdowns.

 

He's never been greatly interested in those short gains.......but there was also a time when he could make more misses happen and his big gainers were for more yardage.

 

As for the injury excuse......like I said......that was his excuse last year as well. You haven't wanted to address that.

Hows that Darby prediction working out for you?

 

 

 

Better than your prediction that this years defense would be the greatest in Bills team history.

Edited November 8, 2015 by #BADOL

[John from Riverside]

 

We had this discussion last winter.......I did watch his play from last year.

 

As did his head coach, Chip Kelly.......who basically said that he felt he had to part ways with him because he was refusing to take those modest gains that were in front of him.

 

Those 20 yards or so that he leaves on the table each game equate to changes of possession and that is also why he is rushing for 4 ypc instead of 5.

 

He produces a couple nice runs every game and the fans that are new to him and are attracted to his celebrity/persona love that........but at the end of the day he's run for 2.9 ypc and no touchdowns.

 

He's never been greatly interested in those short gains.......but there was also a time when he could make more misses happen and his big gainers were for more yardage.

 

As for the injury excuse......like I said......that was his excuse last year as well. You haven't wanted to address that.

 

 

Better than your prediction that this years defense would be the greatest in Bills team history.

Funny I dont remember making that prediction

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

As for the injury excuse......like I said......that was his excuse last year as well. You haven't wanted to address that.

 

I've addressed it multiple times. He didn't miss a game and his OL was not healthy at the start of the year. Their health had far more to do with his early production issues.

 

And, he still finished in the top 3 in rushing. You're better off sticking with your arm chair psychological profile that insists McCoy only shows up for national televised games. It's ridiculous of course, but it has more bite than this one.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

 

I've addressed it multiple times. He didn't miss a game and his OL was not healthy at the start of the year. Their health had far more to do with his early production issues.

 

And, he still finished in the top 3 in rushing. You're better off sticking with your arm chair psychological profile that insists McCoy only shows up for national televised games. It's ridiculous of course, but it has more bite than this one.

Sproles had a 5.8YPC under that same o-line. So the argument that McCoy's production faltered because of the o-line not being healthy is pure nonsense.

Edited November 8, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever

[machine gun kelly]

Sproles and McCoy were used differently. Kelly tried to turn McCoy into a downhill runner like Murray. Now that McCoy is finally healthy we are starting to see his explosiveness. I can't wait to see the 1-2 punch with him and Karlos Williams.

 

He did have a lighter year last year, but still ran for over 1300 yards.

[Beef Jerky]

I was against this trade and still am. The net return is just not worth it. Even if Kiko got hurt in Buffalo this year his contract was affordable and we rolled the dice another year. Trading him for an overvalued RB who has seen limited action and provided less then stellar production; sorry, McCoy wasn't worth the money and the trade.

Id have rather traded a draft pick for McCoy, a 3rd round at best for 2016.

Spiller was only slightly less production then MehCoy and more affordable.

The return has already proven more worth it then ever. Whaley +1

[dave mcbride]

Gio Bernard & Jeremy Hill from Cincy say hello.

Both of those guys are second rounders on very cheap rookie contracts, which is my point. Let's see where they are after their first contracts are up. As for Jonathan Stewart, he was drafted 8 (!) years ago and has had a decidedly average career. He had a good second season in 2009, but he has never been a centerpiece of anything since, starting 35 out of team's 97 games in his career. He's playing ok right now, but he's no one you game plan around.

Jonathan Stewart was selected 13th overall too.

 

Really it's just the team with a HoF QB and a HoF coach that don't invest much in the position. Lacy was a 2nd rounder. Chargers took Melvin Gordon. Todd Gurley is dominating. Even Shady was a 2nd rounder.

 

The "RB is devalued" narrative is the most overplayed angle in sports.

 

Lacy was a "second" rounder: 61st overall. The Packers have never overspent on RBs, rightly viewing them as all moderately interchangeable in a dominant qb-driven offense. They picked up their best one, Ahman Green, for the equivalent of loose change from Seattle, and Dorsey Levens was a late round guy who was only good in GB because he was a good system fit.

 

As for Gurley, yes, he's good. Him combined with Nick Foles gets you to 9-7 in a good season.

Those organizations are not elite, no. But they are a few of the many examples of teams who didn't get the memo that RB's are devalued.

 

Like I said, there isn't one organization who doesn't invest a decent amount of resources into their RB situation whose QB isn't Peyton or Brady.

 

It's overplayed in the sense that folks act like no other team invests in the RB position. It's tiresome to read these posts that act like the Bills are the only team giving RB's big contracts. We aren't. We don't have a great QB, which makes virtually any RB effective. We need a great RB to drag this team to the postseason like AP did with the VIkings and we took a shot on one. Even if the Shady trade blows up, and Shady sucks, if we don't find a franchise QB, does it even matter? We swung for the fences and that's that.

Gordon has been pretty weak in SD so far, and let's not forget that Ryan Matthews was a horrible mid-first round pick for them.

Excuse? No, it's a fact. You're speculating. And, as I said yesterday, so am I. You don't know for sure what the future holds, no matter how many numbers you look at. Unlike most, I'm not basing my opinion on speculative data, I'm basing it on watching the guy play. This year. Last year his numbers went down not because he hit the wall but because of a myriad of issues that are still haunting Kelly's scheme. You don't like to admit that but the games are all there online to watch. You should treat yourself and then you'll see it wi your own eyes. Kelly was the biggest reason Shady's numbers dropped. He's also the only reason Shady was available via trade.

The difference between our positions, other than watching the guy play rather than just reading stat lines and rehashing old cliches about RBs, is I'm speculating that a guy who is barely 27 and has been an elite playmaker for the past four plus seasons, has plenty left in the tank. Which, of course, would be great for Buffalo. You and BBF are speculating (based on conjecture and the history of other players at the position) that his "window is closed" and his contract is going to be an "albatross" for the near future. Both of which would be very bad for Buffalo.

Call me a glass half full guy, but I'm rooting for McCoy to shut all the haters up tomorrow and for seasons to come.

 

Um, McCoy had his best season under Kelly. He's not an issue.

Edited November 8, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Deranged Rhino]

Sproles had a 5.8YPC under that same o-line. So the argument that McCoy's production faltered because of the o-line not being healthy is pure nonsense.

 

Again, something that would only be said if you just read stat lines and didn't watch the games. Try again.

 

Um, McCoy had his best season under Kelly. He's not an issue.

Yes, because thighs don't change from year to year. See my answer above, if you watch the games last year you'd see Kelly and his maddening substitution patterns cost McCoy a bunch of yards and TDs last year. Watching the games helps.

 

Edit: and keep in mind he still finished 3rd in the league in rushing, no one is saying Kelly isn't a good coach or that McCoy had a bad year last year (but for a few on here I guess), the discussion is about the drop in yards from 13 to 14 -- which falls on Kelly and injuries to the OL more than it does any sort of decline because of age on mccoys part.

Edited November 8, 2015 by GreggyT

[Maury Ballstein]

A few things to add on McCoy:

I suggested that he might find that little extra motivation in high profile games against NE and Cincy.......essentially keeping up appearances........and those just so happen to be his only "good" games of the season.

 

So McCoy cared today or nah ? Which other games will he care about ?

[BADOLBILZ]

Funny I dont remember making that prediction

 

Well I say you did.......so it must be so...right?

 

That's the way it works on this board......if you say somebody said something then people unfamiliar with the discussion believe it.

 

Cuz it's funny.......I don't remember predicting that Darby was going to have a bad rookie season.........and that's because I made no such prediction.

 

That's just you being wrong aka being John from Hemet.

 

I've addressed it multiple times. He didn't miss a game and his OL was not healthy at the start of the year. Their health had far more to do with his early production issues.

 

And, he still finished in the top 3 in rushing. You're better off sticking with your arm chair psychological profile that insists McCoy only shows up for national televised games. It's ridiculous of course, but it has more bite than this one.

 

McCoy had a very good game today.

 

I haven't watched the recording yet but it looked like he actually followed John Miller's pulling block(for once?) on his long TD play.

 

Good things happen when you follow your blocks and don't just dash for the sideline, Lesean.

 

On the downside, he suffered yet another injury later in the game.

 

Thurman Thomas will tell you that his shoulders went before his legs.

 

I heard on WGR that he said he is going to play Thursday.

[FireChan]

 

Well I say you did.......so it must be so...right?

 

That's the way it works on this board......if you say somebody said something then people unfamiliar with the discussion believe it.

 

Cuz it's funny.......I don't remember predicting that Darby was going to have a bad rookie season.........and that's because I made no such prediction.

 

That's just you being wrong aka being John from Hemet.

 

McCoy had a very good game today.

 

I haven't watched the recording yet but it looked like he actually followed John Miller's pulling block(for once?) on his long TD play.

 

Good things happen when you follow your blocks and don't just dash for the sideline, Lesean.

 

On the downside, he suffered yet another injury later in the game.

 

Thurman Thomas will tell you that his shoulders went before his legs.

 

I heard on WGR that he said he is going to play Thursday.

Well duh. It's a national game.

 

 

Both of those guys are second rounders on very cheap rookie contracts, which is my point. Let's see where they are after their first contracts are up. As for Jonathan Stewart, he was drafted 8 (!) years ago and has had a decidedly average career. He had a good second season in 2009, but he has never been a centerpiece of anything since, starting 35 out of team's 97 games in his career. He's playing ok right now, but he's no one you game plan around.

Lacy was a "second" rounder: 61st overall. The Packers have never overspent on RBs, rightly viewing them as all moderately interchangeable in a dominant qb-driven offense. They picked up their best one, Ahman Green, for the equivalent of loose change from Seattle, and Dorsey Levens was a late round guy who was only good in GB because he was a good system fit.

 

As for Gurley, yes, he's good. Him combined with Nick Foles gets you to 9-7 in a good season.

Gordon has been pretty weak in SD so far, and let's not forget that Ryan Matthews was a horrible mid-first round pick for them.

 

Um, McCoy had his best season under Kelly. He's not an issue.

Just because some high RB's suck doesn't mean teams don't invest in them. Second rounders are sizable investments.

[BADOLBILZ]

Well duh. It's a national game.

 

 

There you have it!

 

My intention was to leave that more open.......we've seen a number of key injuries initially downplayed this season......only to find out otherwise.

 

With only 2 RB's of note on the roster they really can't have him taking anymore days off.

Edited November 9, 2015 by #BADOL