Former players convinced me that Rex's D will start clicking

[thebandit27]

Interesting. I was looking at points per game, which has them at #24 in 2014 and #19 in 2013. Not sure which measuring stick is more accurate, although it's bizarre that you could be # 6 in yards per game but #24 in points per game in the same season.

Generally, yards/play is the best all-around measuring stick IMO

[3rdand12]

 

None of us have any choice but to hope time will cause this to work. Rex isn't going anywhere and neither is the bulk of our front 7.

 

Offense has been a dumpster fire we need to sign some more durable guys that can be expected to ball consistently. I actually like Sammy, Goodwin, and Percy all individually...but as 3 of the top 4 WRs on a team it looks like it can't work that way right now.

dumpster fire? I dont think it is that at all. Work in progress? Very early into the program and struggling? yes for sure.

I'm not buying it. The OL still can't block. We pay huge money for the DL to hold off OL so mediocre LBs can make plays... or not. We take way to many penalties some of which are just stupid like the taunting calls and other unsportsmanlike calls. It's not just learning a new scheme. Discipline is lacking, attitude is poor, professionalism is absent.

The LBs are missing plays. The scheme is often dependent on them winning the one on ones and making that solo tackle.

look at the big runs. all of them

Edited November 6, 2015 by 3rdand12

[Gabe Northern]

Bro - it will never make sense to have done a complete rebuild of the scheme for a unit that finished 4th overall last year.

[3rdand12]

The Jets are un-learning Ryan's D pretty fast.

you mean the taking plays off and laziness Bowles called out last week in the defensive loss?

Bro - it will never make sense to have done a complete rebuild of the scheme for a unit that finished 4th overall last year.

so maybe it was not resigning Spikes?

lol.

But I agree. Jim had the D running pretty well last year. If Rex and Thurman have some grand scheme , perhaps it should have been slowly integrated instead of turning the players on their heads. Devils advocate, maybe Ryan thought his guys were smart enough to grasp it quickly, get natural and start running.

 

Lets hope they all meet in the middle get on the same page, and then , open the book up.

same with offense really.

[YoloinOhio]

Interesting. I was looking at points per game, which has them at #24 in 2014 and #19 in 2013. Not sure which measuring stick is more accurate, although it's bizarre that you could be # 6 in yards per game but #24 in points per game in the same season.

i don't know how it works either. For comparison the Bills were 4th in 2014 and 11th in 2013.

[White Linen]

There's absolutely no question that some of the defenders are still adjusting to the scheme. They're a step slow reacting to what's going on out there.

 

I think that they'll pick it up; I'm just not sure it'll happen soon enough to save this season.

 

I think you could be right but I think it's possibly more than adjusting. I think they're struggling to believe in the defense. I also think it's a bit extreme to think it's so complicated that this veteran group of defensive lineman are so lost it's translating to getting ran on and a paltry pass rush.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Triple Threat

[TheFunPolice]

The Jets added Revis, Cromartie and Skrine

 

That's not simply "a couple of players"

Edited November 6, 2015 by TheFunPolice

[Buffalo Barbarian]

That's fine. But it is widely believed that Rex is a brilliant defensive coach and that the Bills have tremendous talent on defense. So, why can't Rex simplify the scheme to take advantage of our great players on a weekly basis and build upon that simplified scheme over time?

Puking everything at the players and blaming them for not grasping the concepts seems ill advised and misguided.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Rex's "I know where this is going to end up" line was in evidence again on Wednesday. That is nice for him isn't it? Could it hurry up and end up there now please? Because after Sunday half the season is done. Lose to the Dolphins and you can fork us and if you can fork us because our defense has gotten worse..... then as far as I am concerned you fire Rex Ryan.

 

Let me put it this way - Say we had hired an offensive minded HC... for arguments sake my guy Hue Jackson. And then let's say he moved Schwartz on (which I don't think was his plan but stay with me) and brought his own defensive coordinator in to call the defense. And then let's say we were 3-4 with a defense showing a major drop off from last year.......... we would be saying "he needs to change his coordinator" wouldn't we? Well Rex is calling the defense, Rex IS the coordinator... if this team ends up with an offense that is somewhere around the middle of the league and yet misses the play-offs because our defense takes a step back his neck should be on the block.

[White Linen]

Rex's "I know where this is going to end up" line was in evidence again on Wednesday. That is nice for him isn't it? Could it hurry up and end up there now please? Because after Sunday half the season is done. Lose to the Dolphins and you can fork us and if you can fork us because our defense has gotten worse..... then as far as I am concerned you fire Rex Ryan.

 

Let me put it this way - Say we had hired an offensive minded HC... for arguments sake my guy Hue Jackson. And then let's say he moved Schwartz on (which I don't think was his plan but stay with me) and brought his own defensive coordinator in to call the defense. And then let's say we were 3-4 with a defense showing a major drop off from last year.......... we would be saying "he needs to change his coordinator" wouldn't we? Well Rex is calling the defense, Rex IS the coordinator... if this team ends up with an offense that is somewhere around the middle of the league and yet misses the play-offs because our defense takes a step back his neck should be on the block.

 

Easy for you to say - you wouldn't have to "fork" over 20 million to fire someone.

 

Rex and Roman were excellent hires - but obviously things aren't working out perfectly and everyone knows that. But this firing after one year stuff is so immature. It's been 7 games dude - you gotta figure out a way to relax.

[Nihilarian]

Rex's "I know where this is going to end up" line was in evidence again on Wednesday. That is nice for him isn't it? Could it hurry up and end up there now please? Because after Sunday half the season is done. Lose to the Dolphins and you can fork us and if you can fork us because our defense has gotten worse..... then as far as I am concerned you fire Rex Ryan.

 

Let me put it this way - Say we had hired an offensive minded HC... for arguments sake my guy Hue Jackson. And then let's say he moved Schwartz on (which I don't think was his plan but stay with me) and brought his own defensive coordinator in to call the defense. And then let's say we were 3-4 with a defense showing a major drop off from last year.......... we would be saying "he needs to change his coordinator" wouldn't we? Well Rex is calling the defense, Rex IS the coordinator... if this team ends up with an offense that is somewhere around the middle of the league and yet misses the play-offs because our defense takes a step back his neck should be on the block.

The Buffalo Bills did just that with Saint Doug, and the offense was downright bad 2013-2014 finishing in the bottom third both years. A supposed O line guru and the line stunk. Bad choice for an OC with 2 rookie QB's along with a guy who started exactly on NFL game. Hackett made both CJ Spiller, and the fans throw up. Funny thing is St Doug walked away or otherwise we would get another year of an inept offense. So I kinda doubt ownership can actually see the problems with Rex Ryan, and a lot are on defense, special teams, penalties.

 

 

My thoughts on the difference between Wade Phillips 3-4 heavy blitz attack with their outside LBers Ware, Von Miller vs Jim Schwartz's wide 9 defense is that both defenses have the pass rushers spread out passed the OT on both sides, and thus have an easier path to the QB if they don't have to contend with that offensive tackle. Hughes, and Mario should be getting after the QB 99.9% of the time because its what they do best. Is that difficult to understand?

 

 

Looking at Rex Ryan this year for Buffalo he has done a lot of good things that I doubt Whaley would have done. Bringing in QB Tyrod Taylor was a very smart move. Bringing in OG Richie Incognito, and giving him another chance to prove himself was another very smart move. Rex went after OG La"ell Collins, and just didn't get him. The WR Percy Harvin move didn't work out due to injuries, but it started to look like a great move at first.

 

Rex Ryan's failings this year are mostly on defense with lack of QB pressures, and I happen to think its because of his choice in DC in Dennis Thurman. This because his defense just doesn't look the same as it did under Mike Pettine. Rex needs to be just the HC, and hire a better DC in one that can get the most out of those front four pass rushers. Fire the special teams coach, and hire one that knows what he is doing. Make certain his teams cut down on the penalties. JMHO

[The Frankish Reich]

Interesting. I was looking at points per game, which has them at #24 in 2014 and #19 in 2013. Not sure which measuring stick is more accurate, although it's bizarre that you could be # 6 in yards per game but #24 in points per game in the same season.

In terms of simple Points Allowed, it's easy to understand when Geno Smith (or EJ Manuel for that matter) is giving up points. And even if it's just points allowed on defense (taking out the pick 6's), a horrible offense is a major contributor to that stat: turnovers, punts from deep in your own territory, etc.

That's right. We just need to be patient. We've waited 15 years, what's another 1 or 2?

And that's the big thing here -- installing Rex as coach on a 5 year contract and allowing him to bring in his type of players to fit his type of scheme would be a fine idea for, say, the Niners right now, a team that needs to go into full rebuilding mode. But wasn't the idea to win now? As in 2015-2016 now? The teams that never seem to make that leap are often the ones that misread the competition cycle. Were the Bills 2015 in more of a John Fox "slow and steady, incremental improvment" moment than a Rex Ryan "build a team in my image" moment? Maybe the Bears need Rexy and we needed Foxy ...

[hondo in seattle]

That's fine. But it is widely believed that Rex is a brilliant defensive coach and that the Bills have tremendous talent on defense. So, why can't Rex simplify the scheme to take advantage of our great players on a weekly basis and build upon that simplified scheme over time?

Puking everything at the players and blaming them for not grasping the concepts seems ill advised and misguided.

 

I tend to agree with this.

 

This season is important and we've wasted nearly half of it implementing a complicated new system.

 

Is Rex's system so important that we had to spend this year implementing it so we could shoot for the playoffs next year?

 

There had to be a better way.

[The Frankish Reich]

 

I tend to agree with this.

 

This season is important and we've wasted nearly half of it implementing a complicated new system.

 

Is Rex's system so important that we had to spend this year implementing it so we could shoot for the playoffs next year?

 

There had to be a better way.

That's the problem. They went all-in for 2015. Next year starts getting tougher. Gilmore, Bradham, Incognito -- you gotta find the money for them or good replacements for them. This year was already a big gamble, depending on Tyrod (or EJ!) taking a big leap forward. But messing with the defense at the same time? I just don't get it. It was supposed to be "we're dominant on defense, we'll pound the ball on offense, avoid turnovers with the idea that our explosive playmakers will substitute for a quality QB, and get to the playoffs."

[White Linen]

I'm just not buying into the defense isn't working because it's complex argument. I get that it's something to talk about since the ex players comments - but the veterans we have on the d line are more than capable of picking up a defense. I think it has much more to do with the buy in - in terms of the players don't think the philosophy matches their skills.

 

I would imagine Mario is wondering why his job is to lock horns with the O-lineman and contain vs taking a wide angle to the QB. I would also imagine his concern was something like - they are paying me a lot of money to sack the QB and if I don't that money doesn't seem well spent and they're going to ask me to restructure and take a pay cut and my negotiating power is diminished because my stats won't speak for themselves. Furthermore it isn't working and QB's have way too much time.

 

Could everyone imagine if Hughes contract was up this year instead of last year?

[GunnerBill]

The Buffalo Bills did just that with Saint Doug, and the offense was downright bad 2013-2014 finishing in the bottom third both years. A supposed O line guru and the line stunk. Bad choice for an OC with 2 rookie QB's along with a guy who started exactly on NFL game. Hackett made both CJ Spiller, and the fans throw up. Funny thing is St Doug walked away or otherwise we would get another year of an inept offense. So I kinda doubt ownership can actually see the problems with Rex Ryan, and a lot are on defense, special teams, penalties.

 

 

My thoughts on the difference between Wade Phillips 3-4 heavy blitz attack with their outside LBers Ware, Von Miller vs Jim Schwartz's wide 9 defense is that both defenses have the pass rushers spread out passed the OT on both sides, and thus have an easier path to the QB if they don't have to contend with that offensive tackle. Hughes, and Mario should be getting after the QB 99.9% of the time because its what they do best. Is that difficult to understand?

 

 

Looking at Rex Ryan this year for Buffalo he has done a lot of good things that I doubt Whaley would have done. Bringing in QB Tyrod Taylor was a very smart move. Bringing in OG Richie Incognito, and giving him another chance to prove himself was another very smart move. Rex went after OG La"ell Collins, and just didn't get him. The WR Percy Harvin move didn't work out due to injuries, but it started to look like a great move at first.

 

Rex Ryan's failings this year are mostly on defense with lack of QB pressures, and I happen to think its because of his choice in DC in Dennis Thurman. This because his defense just doesn't look the same as it did under Mike Pettine. Rex needs to be just the HC, and hire a better DC in one that can get the most out of those front four pass rushers. Fire the special teams coach, and hire one that knows what he is doing. Make certain his teams cut down on the penalties. JMHO

 

I agree with some of this - but the Marrone situation was different for a number of reasons. He came in at 6-10 to a team that wasn't ready to go all in. He went 6-10 then improved to 9-7 (best mark for TEN years) he also wasn't calling plays on offense - and we were all shouting for the head of the guy who was. Rex came in to a 9-7 team - if we get WORSE as a result of what was the strength of the team and the strength of the Head Coach and play caller then I think he should and will be under pressure. I doubt he will be fired, but I think it would put him on the year 2 hotseat. Personally I would move on but that is probably to do with where I started from on Rex - I thought he was the wrong hire.

 

Your description on defense is right if a bit simplistic, it is about the more that rushing and pressure - there are coverage problems too at the linebacker level which Badol wrote an excellent synopsis on the other day. I never thought Harvin was a good pick up - I have always believed him to be overrated, and I agree with what others have said - no way Rex cans Thurman.

 

 

 

Rex and Roman were excellent hires - but obviously things aren't working out perfectly and everyone knows that. But this firing after one year stuff is so immature. It's been 7 games dude - you gotta figure out a way to relax.

 

Roman is a big upgrade, but I don't agree that Rex was an excellent hire. I don't think Rex Ryan is a bad football coach. I think he was a bad fit here with this team at this time and this team looks like I feared it would and before I get accused of it I am nor just giving a negative take here. I said after he was hired I didn't like the hire, but I would not bang on about it unless the things I feared came to fruition. The problem is some of them have.

 

I want the Bills to win make no mistake about that. I want them to win more than anything. I don't like believing we have the wrong Head Coach, but that is in fact what I believe. I will be cheering for Rex and the players in my home in north London on Sunday the same as I do every time they take the field and if Rex gets this team to the post-season I will be the first to eat the humble pie. I just think this is the wrong fit.

[dpberr]

I have no idea why Ryan didn't take what Schwartz's defense did very well, keep it and sprinkle in some Ryan strategy for the things that it didn't' do well.

 

Coaches are like any other manager who insist on fixing problems with their own special brand of "fix" completely ignoring the question of whether something is actually broken.

 

I think the defense is a complete mess and it's all on the coaching. You pay guys a lot of money to pass rush and they don't. You have very confused linebackers as to what they should be doing. I think some of the penalties come from a panic and frustration of not knowing the scheme.

 

I sincerely hope the coaching staff took the bye week to get things sorted out.

[CountryCletus]

What's "complicated" about dropping out best pass rushers into coverage? I don't get it. Is it part of the "complex" deception?

Unexpected looks... Go back and watch the 2007 (I think) giants.... They shut down Brady by dropping Osi unexpectedly and doing so took away some of those short lanes that Brady loves to use...

[Dorkington]

I think two of the biggest things impacting our defense is field position, and penalties.

 

Right now our team is giving up the 3rd worst field position... our opponents start on the 30 yard line... compare that to the Bengals, whose opponents start on the 21. If the opposing team drives 30 yards (a fairly average drive), they are getting into deep FG position (i think? 57 yrd fg?) against us, while the Bengals have forced a punt. That adds up over the course of a season.

 

The other, penalties... while we're middle of the pack in yards per game on the defensive side, we're in the top 3rd when it comes to first downs due to defensive penalties per game... 2.7, vs a team like the Bengals, at 1.38. Again, this sort of thing adds up.

 

We're giving up an extra first down, and giving our opponents 10 yd shorter field, compared to other teams in the league. This makes it much easier for our opponents to get scores.

 

We're going to need better play out of our offense, and importantly, better play from our special teams, to help our defense keep our opponents in check in terms of scoring. The defense isn't great, but definitely not bad... it seems to be top 3rd to top half in most categories that aren't impacted by the above two statistics.

[The Frankish Reich]

I think two of the biggest things impacting our defense is field position, and penalties.

 

Right now our team is giving up the 3rd worst field position... our opponents start on the 30 yard line... compare that to the Bengals, whose opponents start on the 21. If the opposing team drives 30 yards (a fairly average drive), they are getting into deep FG position (i think? 57 yrd fg?) against us, while the Bengals have forced a punt. That adds up over the course of a season.

 

The other, penalties... while we're middle of the pack in yards per game on the defensive side, we're in the top 3rd when it comes to first downs due to defensive penalties per game... 2.7, vs a team like the Bengals, at 1.38. Again, this sort of thing adds up.

 

We're giving up an extra first down, and giving our opponents 10 yd shorter field, compared to other teams in the league. This makes it much easier for our opponents to get scores.

 

We're going to need better play out of our offense, and importantly, better play from our special teams, to help our defense keep our opponents in check in terms of scoring. The defense isn't great, but definitely not bad... it seems to be top 3rd to top half in most categories that aren't impacted by the above two statistics.

Excellent point on field position. Which is why a good offense makes for a better defense and vice versa.