plenzmd1 Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Not out of necessity. Exactly my point. Bills have not had a QB in close to 20 years...Most important position in all of sports, you cant win big without an elite one, you don't have one, draft one every friggen year!!!! Pats have the best ever and draft Garropolo, Mallet, etc.. Edited October 30, 2015 by plenzmd1
PortlandiaEast Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Exactly my point. Bills have not had a QB in close to 20 years...Most important position in all of sports, you cant win big without an elite one, you don't have one, draft one every friggen year!!!! Pats have the best ever and draft Garropolo, Mallet, etc.. Got it. Yeah imagine if they had spent those draft pics to add depth at other positions... I have also heard rumors of brady willing to take pay cut after pay cut to keep more money available for other positions of need. Edited October 30, 2015 by PortlandiaEast
MattM Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Check that.This has already happened when he ran Denver into the ground . Cause for even more speculation about "The Patriot Way" when McDaniels and Pioli fell flat on their faces after all that success in the system. Also remember that in Denver as he started his decline McD got caught filming an opponent's practice and the guy doing the filming was Steve Scarnecchia, Dante's son (Dante was the longtime O-line coach for the Pats*). This stuff writes itself. Birds of a crooked feather tend to flock together in New England*. As others note, it makes it hard to judge their accomplishments when they've been caught repeatedly cheating. Makes you wonder what we don't yet know.
John from Riverside Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 I hate to admit but New England just might be the best football franchise ever. I can't think of team that has been this dominant for this long as them. I now they cheated but you still have to make the plays on the field and that they have done. 6 Superbowl appearances 4 wins, division champs almost every year for 15 yrs against a league built on parity is unprecedented . I will try to keep this in mind as they get their hand caught in the cookie jar cheating time and time and time again
zonabb Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) I’m on board with this suggestion. I don’t have time to run any analysis but the fact that this team has been this good for this long suggests they’re in the discussion. In the Tom Brady era, this team is 177-54. In 14 full seasons, they have 13 double-digit win seasons and average 12 wins a year. This year will make it 14 out of 15. To put it in Bills perspective, our beloved Bills have 13 in their entire history! The Bills best 14-year stretch, 1987-2000, they were 139-84, just a shade under 10 wins per season on average. And just because someone mentioned the Steelers, I looked at their records too. In the 1970s, their glory years, over their best 14 year stretch, they compiled a 137-67 record from 1972-1985. The Steelers had more losses in fewer games than the Pats. To standardize for comparison purposes because of 14-game seasons, the win percentages here are: Pats-79%; Bills-62%; Steelers-67%. The only two teams, I think from a quick review, that are close are the 80s-90s 49ers and the Cowboys in the late 60s and into the 70s. The 49ers actually had a nice 18 year run when they had a winning percentage 74% (207-72) and their best 14 year stretch was 166-56 for a winning percentage of 75%. Both these teams over their best 14 years still had a winning percentage below the Pats. Now everyone wants to now say “See, the 49ers did it for 18 years.” True but I have to responses to that argument. The first, the Pats aren’t done. This is year 15 and they’ll at a minimum keep the wining percentage around 80% (that’s a simple 12-4 record this year, meaning they go 5-4 the rest of the way, not happening). The second is the term “dynasty” implies power and control for a long period of time. Translate that to football and it means winning and winning championships over a long period of time. For these teams, no one had a longer stretch between their first and last Super Bowls. The Pats won it in 2001 (Brady’s first year) and again in 2014, so their first and 14th seasons. The best the was the 49ers who had 12 seasons as a run. An early post stated to go back and look at the dinosaurs like Otto Graham. Great, you can do that and try to compare eras. But that was an era with less teams and players who were drastically less skilled than today’s players. It’s like arguing that the Model T is the best car ever because it had a larger market share in its time than other cars. It doesn’t hold up. These QBs total, all of them, are more physically gifted, in shape, and year round athletes than they were then. The game is way more complicated now than then, on both sides of the ball. Players are faster and the game happens faster. So guys like Brady have to be not just physically gifted but I have always argued intellectually gifted. They have to both process and execute faster and faster. There’s just no comparison that you can make that suggests Otto Graham or anyone of prior eras were better QBs than Brady until you get into the 1980s. Even then, Brady is better than everyone from Montana to Young to Aikman to Manning. He just is. That’s doesn’t sit well with Bills fans (I am one) because he destroys this team annually, but the fact remain indisputable. At 38, he’s better than Kelly was in his prime. Those that want to suggest cheating has something to do with it, I don’t dismiss that out of hand. Many want, no need, that narrative to help them cope. You still want to believe it to help you distance yourself from the reality that is this team, coach, owner, and QB. Gronk is open all the time not because of cheating, as someone wondered early, he’s open because he’s awesome and their scheme is awesome and he gets the ball because their QB is awesome. What matters above all else is execution. What you see week in and week out right now is precise execution. The perception of cheating, or reality, can't overcome what we see. Guys have to block, run, get open, and throw the ball. That still matters right? Edited October 30, 2015 by zonabb
Pneumonic Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Sometimes when a team is as dominant as the Pats are, the only viable explanation for it is to assume shenanigans are what is responsible for the outcome. So, we get accusations of cheating, not just by fans of other teams but also by the owners of other teams. This gives rise to instances such as deflategate. In reality, the explanation is staring these people right in the face. The reason why such domination has taken place is because the team doing the domination have the 3 most dominant people in the game, at the 3 most important positions, on the team; the owner, the HC and the QB. If another other team had such dominant people in place, at such crucial positions, they too would be posting such dominant results.
Vinaccia Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 For what reason is this thread permitted here? This is the Bills forum not around the NFL forum. Look the Patriots have beat us soundly the last 15 years and will continue to do so if Tom Brady is their quarterback. It frustrates me however its necessary to note that its neither productive nor interesting to comment/vent on how great another team is on a Bills discussion forum. Bills fans need to worry about this team winning the other 14 games a year. I'm not denying the Patriots are the best team in the league. As far as the NFL goes they're the champions. I just don't think this is the proper venue nor meaningful to discuss this here.
CountDorkula Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 For what reason is this thread permitted here? This is the Bills forum not around the NFL forum. Look the Patriots have beat us soundly the last 15 years and will continue to do so if Tom Brady is their quarterback. It frustrates me however its necessary to note that its neither productive nor interesting to comment/vent on how great another team is on a Bills discussion forum. Bills fans need to worry about this team winning the other 14 games a year. I'm not denying the Patriots are the best team in the league. As far as the NFL goes they're the champions. I just don't think this is the proper venue nor meaningful to discuss this here. You didn't have to click and read it, you chose to. You didn't have to participate in the topic discussion, you choose to. Also this is a football forumn, not just a Bills forum.....
klos63 Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 No. Repeated cheating has tainted their legacy. how are they cheating this year?
John from Riverside Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 You didn't have to click and read it, you chose to. You didn't have to participate in the topic discussion, you choose to. Also this is a football forumn, not just a Bills forum..... It doesnt bother me that it is posted here (and thus should be subject to my opinion that the thread sucks) But in other forms this would be moved to a "General NFL forum" within TBD because this IS a Bills forum
klos63 Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 I will try to keep this in mind as they get their hand caught in the cookie jar cheating time and time and time again do you really think deflating balls had that big an impact? It's ridiculous. They are by far the best organization around, possibly ever.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Even with cheating allegations, they are still the best. That's the annoying part... they don't need to cheat to win, but the culture is so obsessive, that they do. This is how I feel. And it makes the cheating worse to some degree. But they're an incredible team. Devilchick is the best coach ever.
John from Riverside Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 how are they cheating this year? The OP is insinuating that the pats are the best franchise ever Ever would also include the years that they have cheated....had draft picks taken away....taken players to quarter. etc etc etc You are NOT the greatest franchise when you have to cheat regardless of year. do you really think deflating balls had that big an impact? It's ridiculous. They are by far the best organization around, possibly ever. Cheating is cheating.....there was also the spygate years......
PortlandiaEast Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) You didn't have to click and read it, you chose to. You didn't have to participate in the topic discussion, you choose to. Also this is a football forumn, not just a Bills forum..... Meh, I see other threads get locked for no reason. The "NFL Refereeing needs to come to 21st Century" got locked, that was a football discussion... The auto response said it was being discussed previously, yeah obviously, in many many threads. Sometimes starting a new thread for a topic helps. I agree though, this thread is fine. Does that guy want to lock the Cam Wake Achilles Thread? Lock the Dex Bryant will play in week 8 Thread. Just go look at TSW, quite a few non-bills threads. Edited October 30, 2015 by PortlandiaEast
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 No- greatest franchise ever has to be about more than one guy. Steelers have put together championship teams over several generations. Pats were lousy before Brady and will probably be lousy after Brady.
Augie Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) do you really think deflating balls had that big an impact? It's ridiculous. They are by far the best organization around, possibly ever. I agree, they are the best football organization ever. Period, in my mind. Most of that goes to Brady, the best player at the most important position. This has gone on too long for me to question. They have also been caught and admitted to cheating (unnecessarily, I might add). And for all the times they were caught, there are many more times they were suspected. I'm sure there's truth to at least some of these suspicions. I also would bet there are instances of them stepping over the line that we've never heard of before. What impact did the deflated balls have? It doesn't matter, because it was cheating, just like Spy Gate. But if you want an answer, look to the fumble charts. They wouldn't do it if they didn't think it gave them an advantage. They don't have to cheat, but they do. Edited October 30, 2015 by Augie
ddaryl Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 I'd take repeated success for 15 years without integrity over utter failure ANY day. I wouldn't that pretty much sums up the USA and much of the world today. Take as much for yourself and screw the rest. And people ywonder why society is circling the drain.. Pretty much answers itself with quotes like this IMO winning without integrity is shameful and not even worth the pursuit. The fact that some would would so easily and willingly sacrifice integrity just to win a stupid game just makes me very ill.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 I wouldn't that pretty much sums up the USA and much of the world today. Take as much for yourself and screw the rest. And people ywonder why society is circling the drain.. Pretty much answers itself with quotes like this IMO winning without integrity is shameful and not even worth the pursuit. The fact that some would would so easily and willingly sacrifice integrity just to win a stupid game just makes me very ill. Let me ask you this: Do you see any asterisks in the actual record book?
filthymcnasty08 Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 I wouldn't that pretty much sums up the USA and much of the world today. Take as much for yourself and screw the rest. And people ywonder why society is circling the drain.. Pretty much answers itself with quotes like this IMO winning without integrity is shameful and not even worth the pursuit. The fact that some would would so easily and willingly sacrifice integrity just to win a stupid game just makes me very ill. agreed…nicely put.
Augie Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 I'm one more vote for integrity, but I recognize it's not black and white. It's a world of decisions somewhere in the gray where it's not always easy choices, and I want my team to own the "gray territory", without stepping into "Patriotland".
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