Final TD hold against Hughes

[Never NEVER Give-up]

That's not holding. The OL's hand is firmly planted in Hugh's chest - within the framework of his body. While doing so, the OL never reaches to his side (that would be holding), he keeps his hands within the framework of his own body too. He just rides with him and keeps him in front of himself.

 

I wish it was holding, but I don't think so.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Never NEVER Give-up

[dave mcbride]

 

 

 

 

I see what you're both saying. But what about after Bortles steps up and starts moving to his left? Hughes tries to pursue him and is definitely held up there. Maybe not the worst hold of all time, but with the back judge right there I'd expect a flag in such a crucial situation.

I think most if not everyone feels the same way. Just call it somewhat consistent. It's now like basketball, which is a joke with refereeing; you have to cross your fingers and hope you get the right crew, and if you get the wrong one (For us, that'd be Walt Anderson and co.) you already know you'll get f***** multiple times.

The bottom line is that regardless of this particular play, the Bills were jobbed by the refs on the Robey play. That wasn't even remotely close to being a penalty.

That's not holding. The OL's hand is firmly planted in Hugh's chest - within the framework of his body. While doing so, the OL never reaches to his side (that would be holding), he just rides with him and keeps him in front of himself.

 

I wish it was holding, but I don't think so.

yep.

[Kelly the Dog]

We are just not going to agree on this. That wasn't even remotely close to a clothesline.

I wasn't referring to the Hughes block. I was just showing an obvious example of why your description isn't true. You don't have to grab a jersey on a play like that. If he is passing you hooking him with your arm even not grabbing jersey or a "clothes line" even if it's across the chest is a hold. Just because you're inside doesn't matter.

[Billsrhody]

Unfortunately for Hughes his reputation probably doesn't give him much benefit of the doubt with refs...

 

Same goes for the Bills in general

Edited October 28, 2015 by Billsrhody

[dave mcbride]

I wasn't referring to the Hughes block. I was just showing an obvious example of why your description isn't true. You don't have to grab a jersey on a play like that. If he is passing you hooking him with your arm even not grabbing jersey or a "clothes line" even if it's across the chest is a hold. Just because you're inside doesn't matter.

That's sophistry, Dog. A clothesline play is when a player straight-arms across a player's neck region from the side (a la Night Train Lane). It's truly apples and oranges and shouldn't be part of the debate.

[Kelly the Dog]

That's sophistry, Dog. A clothesline play is when a player straight-arms across a player's neck region from the side (a la Night Train Lane). It's truly apples and oranges and shouldn't be part of the debate.

I was just using that as a short cut description which is why I said "clothes line" across the chest not the neck. I wasn't talking about an arm across the neck. Just an arm stuck out like that across the shoulders or chest or waist for that matter. It's not a block it's a hold.

[Big Turk]

BS PI call on Robey and then a blatant hold on 2 of the final 3 plays...

[dave mcbride]

I was just using that as a short cut description which is why I said "clothes line" across the chest not the neck. I wasn't talking about an arm across the neck. Just an arm stuck out like that across the shoulders or chest or waist for that matter. It's not a block it's a hold.

For the record, if you want to see a real clothesline, start watching at 2:44:

 

Edited October 28, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Kelly the Dog]

For the record, if you want to see a real clothesline, start watching at 2:44: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYdH1tuq8Bg

I know what a clothes line is and the Night Train Lane reference, one of the best nicknames ever.

[truth on hold]

I know what a clothes line is and the Night Train Lane reference, one of the best nicknames ever.

One of my favorite GnR songs too

[BillnutinHouston]

I'm the biggest bills fan there is but I don't see a hold on this play. the offensive linemen has his hand pushed into Hughes left upper chest and is pushing him away from the QB. I don't think it's a hold but I'm sorry he did not grab him or pull his jersey the two met and he was stoping him from going forward with his strength and arm push

Season ticket holder and huge fan here, and I agree with this. Who allowed the receiver to get so open at that stage of the game?

[buffaloboyinATL]

There was another hold on Dareus earlier in the game where the Offensive player had him by the jersey and pulled him back from behind as he chased the runner. The jersey pull almost always gets called. Except when it happens against us apparently.

[2003Contenders]

Season ticket holder and huge fan here, and I agree with this. Who allowed the receiver to get so open at that stage of the game?

 

That was Graham. The only way the Jags win the game is if they score a TD -- both safeties should have been playing deep and preventing anyone from getting behind them.

 

Still, credit Bortles with a fine pass and Hurns with great hands and concentration to catch the pass and stay in bounds.

[ko12010]

The bottom line is that regardless of this particular play, the Bills were jobbed by the refs on the Robey play. That wasn't even remotely close to being a penalty.

yep.

One of the worst calls I've seen at the most critical moment of a game. Just unreal, honestly.

[Maddog69]

Meh. I'm over it. Bills lost because of Bills mistakes. Don't spot terrible teams 21 points next time and you won't have to worry about bad calls or no calls late in the game.

Yep and you don't take a 4pt lead in the last 4 minutes of the game and let Blake Bortles drive for a touchdown against the supposed "Best Defense" in the NFL.

[Nanker]

http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2015-nfl-rulebook/

Article 3. Illegal Block by Offensive Player

It is a foul if an offensive blocker:

 

 

C. Use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to:

1. grabbing or tackling an opponent;
2. hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or
3. pulling him to the ground.

Penalty: For holding by the offense: Loss of 10 yards.

 

That's the rule.

[dave mcbride]

 

http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2015-nfl-rulebook/

 

Article 3. Illegal Block by Offensive Player

It is a foul if an offensive blocker:

 

 

C. Use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to:

1. grabbing or tackling an opponent;
2. hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or
3. pulling him to the ground.

Penalty: For holding by the offense: Loss of 10 yards.

 

That's the rule.

 

He didn't do (1), (2), or (3).

[The Big Cat]

He didn't do (1), (2), or (3).

 

Dude, he clearly did (2), in several ways.

 

And it's patently obvious to everyone but you.

[Kelly the Dog]

He didn't do (1), (2), or (3).

But he very much used his arms to restrict an opponent or alter the defenders path or angle. And of course the list said "not limited to."

[KDS73]

Like I said before. The argument for offensive holding can be made on just about every play of every game if you want to go by the letter of the law. I could watch the game again and spot two dozen "holding" penalties like the one being argued about here that Bills linemen committed that didn't draw a flag either. At some point, they have to let them play and only call the blatantly obvious holding penalties. Something like this rarely gets called. Especially when it's late in the game.