Greybeard Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Out of all these Buffalo QB's that didn't work, how many of them actually played with a GOOD offensive line? How many of the QB's that are viewed as ok, would have prospered playing in Buffalo? I think at least one of the guys we had would have worked out if they had some pass protection.
Boatdrinks Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Out of all these Buffalo QB's that didn't work, how many of them actually played with a GOOD offensive line? How many of the QB's that are viewed as ok, would have prospered playing in Buffalo? I think at least one of the guys we had would have worked out if they had some pass protection. It's not like ( most of) the Kelly years anymore, where you could afford to pay a top OL and a top QB. OL issues are common around the league now. The better QBs rise above it. Makes it even harder to find a QB now. You can't get away without reading defenses quickly and having at least some mobility . Lots of QBs can look great with all day to throw , there's plenty of arm talent out there. Having that fine Swiss timepiece inside the dome is the more rare trait.
GunnerBill Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 This is the best thing about us Bills fans. Even though there is no doubt we have failed miserably at addressing the QB position for 20 years most on this board will blindly defend the organization. So the Bills have done everything right in terms of finding a QB for the last 20 years. Ummmm......Yeeaaahh. Wull go with that, seems logical. Nobody is saying that. What people are saying is the failure has been in talent evaluation. There isn't some great sure fire strategy out there that others are trying and the Bills haven't. I did the counting... the team that has invested most first round resource in Quarterbacks in that past 12 years is the Browns.... how'd that work out for them? Ultimately it is about picking the right guy. That is where we have failed and it comes down to no more and no less than that.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 And again I ask...did you want to draft a good QB or just draft anyone with a pulse? By the way, did you hear about this Tyrod Taylor kid? He was tearing up the league before he tweaked his knee. What do you think about trading for him?
Nihilarian Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 Nobody is saying that. What people are saying is the failure has been in talent evaluation. There isn't some great sure fire strategy out there that others are trying and the Bills haven't. I did the counting... the team that has invested most first round resource in Quarterbacks in that past 12 years is the Browns.... how'd that work out for them? Ultimately it is about picking the right guy. That is where we have failed and it comes down to no more and no less than that. This! This team won't ever find that franchise QB until they hire someone at the top who actually has the acumen to discern a "maybe" from a franchise guy. This team needs that football czar! I don't know about the rest of of you guys but I'm so sick of losing to the Patriots, and Tom Brady.
Mr. WEO Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 They spent a 1st and a 4th on Johnson and another 1st on Bledsoe. That should be factored into the equation. So in those 20 years they invested four 1st round picks on four QBs. That is not exactly ignoring it or not being willing to invest a high pick in the position. I wonder how many other teams have invested that many first round picks in their QB position. GO BILLS!!! That's evidence of the foolishness of GMs in general, but the Bills GMs in particular. Nobody is saying that. What people are saying is the failure has been in talent evaluation. There isn't some great sure fire strategy out there that others are trying and the Bills haven't. I did the counting... the team that has invested most first round resource in Quarterbacks in that past 12 years is the Browns.... how'd that work out for them? Ultimately it is about picking the right guy. That is where we have failed and it comes down to no more and no less than that. Not well (but so far better for Miami, Indy (twice), Vikes, Panthers, Detroit, Ravens, Falcons, Bears, 49ers/Chiefs, Packers, Giants, Steelers, Chargers, Bengals (Palmer)). You are correct--it is about talent evaluation. But at least the Browns were always looking for that QB. The Bills simply weren't looking.
GunnerBill Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 I don't agree that the Bills weren't looking. The facts don't support that. They are in a group of teams second to only the Browns in terms of resource committed. The only period where I would criticise them for not trying enough things is the Nix period - I like Buddy more than most on here but his view is you get the rest of the team right first and then slot in a QB was a little disconcerting.... but then he had a HC who was happy with Fitz. As for a "football czar" I don't like the idea and I never have. I want to give Whaley's team a chance to find their guy. Whaley might have been here for EJ but Monos and Fisher both of whom I like weren't. Even though Whaley who clearly liked EJ will be signing off on the pick it will be different guys doing the groundwork and I think they deserve a shot. If Whaley with his guys in place, fires and misses again at QB then it is time for a new GM. However, I have this terrible feeling that if Rex flunks this year he will go the Pegulas and ask for more control and then we are in all worlds of trouble.
White Linen Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Well, I'm amazed that we haven't tried but considering this organization not surprising. With Pegula here he will turn this around but hopefully he doesn't wait a few yrs before he realizes we need a QB this draft and everyone after till we find one. How do you know you have one if you draft one each year?
Uncle Joe Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) There was also a QB whose name escapes me, who I think we gave up a 3rd rounder for, who was a backup who had to play due to an injury, and admitted he hadn't studied the playbook. Does anyone else remember that? Billy Joe Hobert ? Edited October 29, 2015 by Uncle Joe
metzelaars_lives Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) We HAVE a quarterback. His name is Manuel and if coached correctly I believe he would be an effective player.They still make you guys? Out of all these Buffalo QB's that didn't work, how many of them actually played with a GOOD offensive line? How many of the QB's that are viewed as ok, would have prospered playing in Buffalo? I think at least one of the guys we had would have worked out if they had some pass protection. Uhh Losman and Edwards played with decent to good offensive lines. Egregious TBD myth #1: the Bills offensive line has always sucked. Edited October 29, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Boatdrinks Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 They still make you guys? Uhh Losman and Edwards played with decent to good offensive lines. Egregious TBD myth #1: the Bills offensive has always sucked. Egregious TBD myth # 2 QB x ( insert name here) would be great if only we had an offensive line in front of him.
Thrivefourfive Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 They spent a 1st and a 4th on Johnson and another 1st on Bledsoe. That should be factored into the equation. So in those 20 years they invested four 1st round picks on four QBs. That is not exactly ignoring it or not being willing to invest a high pick in the position. I wonder how many other teams have invested that many first round picks in their QB position. GO BILLS!!! I disagree with this. Those drafts picks were used in trades for retreads. NFL teams saw what they had in those players, and passed them along. They were not good enough to stay with their current clubs, so the Bills paid handsomely for them. For these specific transactions, the Bills were gambling that another team couldn't maximize those players' potential, and that they could. So they paid the price to find out. To me, this type of transaction has been more damaging to the organization than drafting duds. You always finish out of the money. Blow a top three dick on a QB and see what happened. If he's the man, then your set. If he sucks, then you're picking another top three QB me t year.
NickelCity Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 A good OLine would do wonders for this particular offense.
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 . . . Blow a top three dick on a QB and see what happened. . . . I have no recollection of reading about any Bills GM doing this, but maybe it got hushed up.
Nihilarian Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Uhh Losman and Edwards played with decent to good offensive lines. Egregious TBD myth #1: the Bills offensive line has always sucked. Lets look at that shall we. 2004 24th run blocking, 20th pass blocking- Bledsoe starting 2005 14th run blocking, 27th pass blocking- Losman 8 split time with Kelly Holcomb 8 games 2006 26th run blocking, 29th pass blocking- 23rd in pts scored, 30th in yards- Losman starter 2007 24th run blocking, 13th pass blocking- 30th in pts scored, 30th in yards- Losman 7 split time with Edwards 9 games 2008 14th run blocking, 25th pass blocking- 23rd in pts scored, 25th yards- Edwards 14, Losman 2 2009 12th run blocking, 32nd pass blocking 28th in pts scored, 30th in yards Edwards split with Fitz 8 games 2010 20th run blocking, 17th pass blocking 28th in pts scored, 25th in yards Fitz starting, Edwards 2 games played before release Neither Edwards or Losman finished a season better then 7-9, and it looks to me like neither one had a good O line at any point.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 I kinda think they realize it now! When asked by a reporter on 60 min sports "what are the missing pieces" Kim Pegula stated QB, and Terry hemmed and hawed. From what I understand Terry is the hockey lover, and football watcher. While Kim is the football lover, and hockey watcher is just my opinion. These people didn't become billionaires by sheer luck, and are in fact brilliant at whatever they get involved in. There was initial talk that the Pegula's would hire a football czar to oversee the football operations side of the team, and that never came about once Bill Polian backed out. This team needs someone at the top of the flow chart with the experience in building a playoff team like Polian. Thank God, when was this interview? Also A Czar would be a good idea, I wonder who would be a good candidate for this (maybe now that Polian is in the Hall he will be willing to do it) We HAVE a quarterback. His name is Manuel and if coached correctly I believe he would be an effective player. Trolling is frowned upon in this ESTABLISHMENT! ( said in baby voice of E-trade)
Nihilarian Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Thank God, when was this interview? Also A Czar would be a good idea, I wonder who would be a good candidate for this (maybe now that Polian is in the Hall he will be willing to do it) When I bought this years direct TV package they gave me showtime, and 60 minutes has a sports show they do. (Kinda like HBO's sports.) They did an in depth interview with Kim & Terry Pegula. This is a different article, but a really great story on our new owners nonetheless. http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/2015/08/23/kim-pegula-making-difference-adopted-hometown/32166573 As far as a football czar goes I've read here that some other posters like the idea that the Green Bay Packers GM Ted Thompson would make a great team president of football operations. Who was about the only man on the planet who saw the talent in Aaron Rodgers, and wanted him as his starter even when the team still had Brett Favre at QB. http://www.packers.com/team/staff/ted-thompson/7d1caee3-e8f2-4e20-b304-98064f608dbb I now happen to like this idea very much also.
K-9 Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 I disagree with this. Those drafts picks were used in trades for retreads. NFL teams saw what they had in those players, and passed them along. They were not good enough to stay with their current clubs, so the Bills paid handsomely for them. For these specific transactions, the Bills were gambling that another team couldn't maximize those players' potential, and that they could. So they paid the price to find out. To me, this type of transaction has been more damaging to the organization than drafting duds. You always finish out of the money. Blow a top three dick on a QB and see what happened. If he's the man, then your set. If he sucks, then you're picking another top three QB me t year. You disagree they used four first round picks on four QBs in the last 20 years? That is irrefutable. Feel free to disagree with their decision to do so but I never qualified that aspect in my post one way or the other. I only clarified the assertion by the OP that the Bills hadn't used high picks on QBs in the last 20 years. I suppose Bledsoe could be classified as a "retread", but the other three just don't fit that description. GO BILLS!!!
peterpan Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 I dont see how anyone can me ragging on the OP here. He is right. Claiming the Bills invested 4 picks in Losman is a moot point. Its only one players. Dalton Wilson Bridgewater Carr there are QBs to be had. The Bills dont take enough chances on these guys.
metzelaars_lives Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Lets look at that shall we. 2004 24th run blocking, 20th pass blocking- Bledsoe starting 2005 14th run blocking, 27th pass blocking- Losman 8 split time with Kelly Holcomb 8 games 2006 26th run blocking, 29th pass blocking- 23rd in pts scored, 30th in yards- Losman starter 2007 24th run blocking, 13th pass blocking- 30th in pts scored, 30th in yards- Losman 7 split time with Edwards 9 games 2008 14th run blocking, 25th pass blocking- 23rd in pts scored, 25th yards- Edwards 14, Losman 2 2009 12th run blocking, 32nd pass blocking 28th in pts scored, 30th in yards Edwards split with Fitz 8 games 2010 20th run blocking, 17th pass blocking 28th in pts scored, 25th in yards Fitz starting, Edwards 2 games played before release Neither Edwards or Losman finished a season better then 7-9, and it looks to me like neither one had a good O line at any point. Are your rankings based on rushing yards/game and sacks allowed, respectively? Because those numbers might have something to do with who the running backs were and the quarteback's ability to avoid sacks. I mean, in one of these years, you had a Drew Bledsoe with the agility of a grandpa with a walker and in another, a well past his prime Anthony Thomas as the lead back. There's a little bit of chicken and egg involved. The 2007 and, to a lesser extent, the 2008 Bills teams (before Peters left) were ELITE pass blocking units. Furthermore, are you suggesting the offensive line was responsible for derailing the careers of both Losman and Edwards and that they would have found success had the lines been better? And lastly, not sure points, yards are pertinent to offensive line play when you have guys like Peerless Price version 2.0 as your 2nd WR and that guy Campbell as your TE. At the end of the day, those units with Peters at LT, Walker at RT and the guy who quit football to become a politician at one of the guard spots were very decent offensive lines. Again, people love to just say that the offensive line has always sucked. It has not. Between 2005 and 2010, THE SKILL POSITION PLAYERS SUCKED. In 2012, the OL was one of the very best in all of football (top 5 at worst) and people would still complain and say that Fitz's sack numbers were only down because he had a magical quick release. It's as if people don't watch other teams play and realize that not every OL gives their QB ten seconds and opens up gaping holes for its RB's on every play. Edited October 29, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Recommended Posts