In the last 20 years the Bills have

[boyst]

Go back to the start of the franchise. We have only drafted a small amount. I went back before and did it. Even to the 80s it was only 5 qbs or something

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Johnson was anything but a re-tread, he was in the league what two years? Bledsoe certainly should have had a a number of years left in him, assuming he played at his former level, and not at all implying his level of play dropped because of age. IMO his play dropped way off as Belichick knew his weaknesses and exposed him to the rest of league. They picked Losman, Edwards, Manual, and can't even recall his name who was going to be Kelly's replacement, Kelly something?? Plus Johnson and Flutie were in there too.

 

One of the smaller problems this summer in training camp that was discussed was how do you give enough time for 3 QB's to develop chemistry with all the players which is a legit concern. Then you hear people suggest the Bill's should select a QB every year. Once you do that, to truly give the guy time to figure out if he's any good, you need to play him, then you restrict the development of your current #1 QB. My point is I just listed six guys the Bill's used at QB for various amounts of time hoping one would work out, but none did. Six divided by 20 is a little over three years each. Bringing in more than that is just going to stunt everyone involved as no one would get enough time.

 

Many of the can't miss prospects often do miss, I'd put the level at over 50% of all 1st rounders fail to become dominant players. You mention they should draft and develop more, well unless you have a top ten pick AND in a year with some can't miss prospects who still will often miss, you're then taking gambles. So then you are left to taking lower round guys, making trades, or picking up FA which the Bills have done all three. To me the Bill's have done everything correct to get a new franchise QB but just have not had any success. However over the past 20 years, you could say the same thing about more than half the teams in the league so can't blame them as it's not working for others either any better.

 

 

 

I see your point K9 but your actually making my point of trying to find retread QBs instead of drafting and developing untapped potential. I think there is much more value in drafting and molding a prospect than picking off the scrap heap.

But apparently the Bills support your investment strategy which might be how we got here.

[MikeSpeed]

If I'm the GM here would be my draft philosophy. Draft a QB in one of the first 2 rounds until you know proof positive that you have your guy. Then keep drafting QB's in every 3rd round in hopes of getting that diamond in the rough to either take over the current QB or for trade bait.

 

Sure you lose out on some good bit players, but without a QB nothing else matters.

[Nihilarian]

Taylor is going to be our franchise QB. How could we have traded up and gotten Carr in the 2nd round when he was selected in the 1st?

Derek Carr was selected in the 2nd round of the 2014 draft with the #36 overall pick.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

How do you coach him to be accurate, just curious??

 

We HAVE a quarterback. His name is Manuel and if coached correctly I believe he would be an effective player.

 

 

Then you have the problem of not seeing enough of anyone to know who is or isn't any good,. that was one of the complaints this summer in training camp you had three people competing for playing time.

 

 

This debate is higher than players on the field. It's about why GM's from 2006-2013 insisted on 1 guy only and didn't push for competition at the game's most crucial spot. What happens on the field is symptomatic of what happens off it during the off-season.

 

You tell me why the Bills didn't pursue options and I'll answer your question about who should have been selected.

[IronyAbounds]

This year, the Bills signed people and held an open competition, which is the result of having a real coaching staff (albeit one that's struggled).

 

 

What evidence is there that this coaching staff is even as good as last year's, let alone better? The defense and special teams are clearly worse, and I see little if any improvement in the offense. Rex talks a better game than Marrone, but that is all he is, a big mouth and a terrible head coach. Hiring him was a real bonehead decision by the Pegulas.

[Billsguy]

We HAVE a quarterback. His name is Manuel and if coached correctly I believe he would be an effective player.

The first step in your recovery is to admit you have a problem. You will never be well until you can face your denial. EJ Manuel is not now, nor ever will be, a quality NFL QB. Move on already!!!

[nucci]

We HAVE a quarterback. His name is Manuel and if coached correctly I believe he would be an effective player.

How is he being coached incorrectly? Eventually the player has to get better. Unfortunately EJ is not

[PlayoffsPlease]

The Bills haven't invested enough into the QB position and what they have invested, they have invested poorly. Its tough to make up. To me the Ravens did it right. They drafted a QB every year for 6 or 7 years prior to landing Joe Flacco. Even after that they drafted Tyrod Taylor, because they value the QB position.

They are famous for their defense, so it is clear that the heavy investment in the QB position did NOT cause them to under invest in other positions.

 

Whaley has been with the Bills since 2010. Here is a list of current starting QBs who joined their current team since Whaley came to Buffalo.

 

Carson Palmer

Alex Smith

Blake Bortles

Sam Bradford

Andy Dalton

Kirk Cousins

Josh McCown

Russel Wilson

Ryan Tannehill

Peyton Manning

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Jameis Winston

Derek Carr

Colin Kaepernick

Andrew Luck

Bryan Hoyer

Teddy Bridgewater

Cam Newton

Nick Foles

 

With the exception of Luck, Winston, Mariotta and Peyton Manning, it is theoretically possible that the Bills could have added any of these with the right trade moves. Quite a few of these guys would be better than the Bills current group. Although Tyrod is still viable to work out, if he can stay healthy.

[Best Player Available]

The first step in your recovery is to admit you have a problem. You will never be well until you can face your denial. EJ Manuel is not now, nor ever will be, a quality NFL QB. Move on already!!!

 

he'a trolling!!!

[CountDorkula]

 

Sure you lose out on some good bit players, but without a QB nothing else matters.

 

this is all that needs to be said.

[The Big Cat]

The Bills haven't invested enough into the QB position and what they have invested, they have invested poorly. Its tough to make up. To me the Ravens did it right. They drafted a QB every year for 6 or 7 years prior to landing Joe Flacco. Even after that they drafted Tyrod Taylor, because they value the QB position.

 

They are famous for their defense, so it is clear that the heavy investment in the QB position did NOT cause them to under invest in other positions.

 

Whaley has been with the Bills since 2010. Here is a list of current starting QBs who joined their current team since Whaley came to Buffalo.

 

Carson Palmer

Alex Smith

Blake Bortles

Sam Bradford

Andy Dalton

Kirk Cousins

Josh McCown

Russel Wilson

Ryan Tannehill

Peyton Manning

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Jameis Winston

Derek Carr

Colin Kaepernick

Andrew Luck

Bryan Hoyer

Teddy Bridgewater

Cam Newton

Nick Foles

 

With the exception of Luck, Winston, Mariotta and Peyton Manning, it is theoretically possible that the Bills could have added any of these with the right trade moves. Quite a few of these guys would be better than the Bills current group. Although Tyrod is still viable to work out, if he can stay healthy.

 

You're cherry picking 2010, but fine, I'll bite.

 

Had no shot at getting

Wouldn't want anyways

Might have been nice

 

That leaves:

1. Palmer--was at death's door leaving the Raiders. Has had a career resurgence nobody could have foreseen, but is probably due, in large part to Bruce Arians.
2. Wilson--So was this another post to tell us that we should have drafted Wilson instead of TJ Graham when we traded up in the third in 2012? Yep. No ****. Everyone aggress with you.
3. Carr--Whole lotta meh.
4. Bridgewater--Whole lotta meh.

Carr and Bridgewater might turn into something special, but right now they're no better than TT.

Edited October 27, 2015 by The Big Cat

[Estelle Getty]

This is the best thing about us Bills fans. Even though there is no doubt we have failed miserably at addressing the QB position for 20 years most on this board will blindly defend the organization.

 

So the Bills have done everything right in terms of finding a QB for the last 20 years.

 

Ummmm......Yeeaaahh. Wull go with that, seems logical.

[fridge]

 

You're cherry picking 2010, but fine, I'll bite.

 

Had no shot at getting

Wouldn't want anyways

Might have been nice

 

That leaves:

1. Palmer--was at death's door leaving the Raiders. Has had a career resurgence nobody could have foreseen, but is probably due, in large part to Bruce Arians.
2. Wilson--So was this another post to tell us that we should have drafted Wilson instead of TJ Graham when we traded up in the third in 2012? Yep. No ****. Everyone aggress with you.
3. Carr--Whole lotta meh.
4. Bridgewater--Whole lotta meh.

Carr and Bridgewater might turn into something special, but right now they're no better than TT.

 

I have to agree with this take. The reality is that a lot of luck goes into getting your franchise QB and we don't have that. We took our chances. Using the OP's "last 20 years" template...

 

We tried to buy a Carson Palmer...and Bledsoe didn't live up.

We tried to draft a mid-round QB a la Russel Wilson...and Trent Edwards didn't live up.

We tried to draft the top QB in the draft...and EJ didn't live up.

We tried to draft a 1st round, not the best in draft QB...and JP Losman didn't live up.

We even tried the hey you never know let's get a retread...and Fitzpatrick didn't live up.

 

Maybe it's just incredibly hard to get a franchise quarterback? It always seems like the grass is always greener, but Tyrod is probably the best QB we could have gotten for this season.

Edited October 27, 2015 by fridge

[K-9]

Why not draft QBs with EVERY pick in EVERY round of EVERY draft until you find "the guy?"

 

Disclaimer: that is a rhetorical question.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Boatdrinks]

This is the best thing about us Bills fans. Even though there is no doubt we have failed miserably at addressing the QB position for 20 years most on this board will blindly defend the organization.

 

So the Bills have done everything right in terms of finding a QB for the last 20 years.

 

Ummmm......Yeeaaahh. Wull go with that, seems logical.

I don't think anyone is saying that the team has done everything right, as they clearly have not. It hasn't been for lack of trying( except maybe from around '08 or so. ) They have just been very bad talent evaluators and somewhat unlucky. Bledsoe was washed up, fell short in the A. smith trade attempt/ move up for Roethlisberger fell through due to no fault of their own etc. the scouting dept does not deserve a pass at all, they are paid to be right more often than they have been.

[RevWarRifleman]

Johnson was anything but a re-tread, he was in the league what two years? Bledsoe certainly should have had a a number of years left in him, assuming he played at his former level, and not at all implying his level of play dropped because of age. IMO his play dropped way off as Belichick knew his weaknesses and exposed him to the rest of league. They picked Losman, Edwards, Manual, and can't even recall his name who was going to be Kelly's replacement, Kelly something?? Plus Johnson and Flutie were in there too.

 

One of the smaller problems this summer in training camp that was discussed was how do you give enough time for 3 QB's to develop chemistry with all the players which is a legit concern. Then you hear people suggest the Bill's should select a QB every year. Once you do that, to truly give the guy time to figure out if he's any good, you need to play him, then you restrict the development of your current #1 QB. My point is I just listed six guys the Bill's used at QB for various amounts of time hoping one would work out, but none did. Six divided by 20 is a little over three years each. Bringing in more than that is just going to stunt everyone involved as no one would get enough time.

 

Many of the can't miss prospects often do miss, I'd put the level at over 50% of all 1st rounders fail to become dominant players. You mention they should draft and develop more, well unless you have a top ten pick AND in a year with some can't miss prospects who still will often miss, you're then taking gambles. So then you are left to taking lower round guys, making trades, or picking up FA which the Bills have done all three. To me the Bill's have done everything correct to get a new franchise QB but just have not had any success. However over the past 20 years, you could say the same thing about more than half the teams in the league so can't blame them as it's not working for others either any better.

 

 

 

Todd Collins was drafted to be Kelly's replacement.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Yeah after I posteds this I remembered it was Collins, Was confusing him with Kelly Holcomb who I believe we also drafted.

 

 

Todd Collins was drafted to be Kelly's replacement.

[Boatdrinks]

Yeah after I posteds this I remembered it was Collins, Was confusing him with Kelly Holcomb who I believe we also drafted.

 

 

Bills did not draft Holcomb.

[Utah John]

There was also a QB whose name escapes me, who I think we gave up a 3rd rounder for, who was a backup who had to play due to an injury, and admitted he hadn't studied the playbook. Does anyone else remember that?

 

For a few years after Kelly retired, I was keeping track of all the draft picks the Bills had used in actual drafts or in trades, to find his replacement. I quit after a while because the total was getting ridiculous. The Bills have definitely been trying all these years, they just haven't succeeded. The more damaging failures have been the many first rounders who were busts or who didn't play well for Buffalo.

 

From 1990 to 1996 their first rounders were James Williams, Henry Jones, John Fina, Thomas Smith, Jeff Burris, Reuben Brown, and Eric Moulds. All good players. Maybe not great stars but they were good.

 

After that, they couldn't pick many good players, and they couldn't keep the ones they got.

1997. Antowain Smith. Did better for New England than Buffalo.

1998. No pick. Rob Johnson. Fred Taylor.

1999. Antoine Winfield. Great player. Should have kept him but let him go in free agency.

2000. Erik Flowers. Never learned the game.

2001. Nate Clements. Very good player. Should have kept him but let him go in free agency.

2002. Mike Williams. Makes Erik Flowers look good.

2003. Willis McGahee. Big bet on a big talent that didn't work out.

2004. Lee Evans. Good player. Not in Eric Moulds' class. Not a true #1 WR threat.

2004. J.P. Losman. Nope.

2005. No pick. Traded away picks in 2005 for the J.P. Losman pick in 2004. Losman was a very expensive acquisition.

2006. Donte Whitner. Not a first round talent. Pretty good player.

2006. John McCargo. Seriously? BUST.

2007. Marshawn Lynch. Pretty good Bill. Great Seahawk.

2008. Leodis McKelvin. Good player, not worth the first round pick.

2009. Aaron Maybin. The depths of drafting ineptitude. What a joke. Even worse than Mike Williams.

2009. Eric Wood. Average player. Probably not worth the first round pick. Andy Levitre whom they picked the same year was better.

2010. C.J. Spiller. Occasionally great. Overall a bust. Definitely the wrong pick for the team at the time.

2011. Marcel Dareus. Probably the Bills' best player last year. Disappeared this year. Ryanitis?

 

If you look at this list, the Bills were drafting DBs while they had Kelly at QB, which worked out well overall. After that, they spent just as much effort trying to replace Thurman Thomas as they did Jim Kelly. Look at all the RBs. Smith. McGahee. Lynch. Spiller. And they had others through that period as well. (Remember Travis Henry?) They lucked into Fred Jackson, who all Bills fans love dearly for his effort and accomplishments, but seriously, Fred was never in the same category as the top RBs in the league.

 

That's 15 years listed. Arguably the only players worth a first round pick in that set were Winfield, Clements, and Dareus. Conclusion: the Bills not only couldn't draft QBs, they couldn't draft at all. They seem to be doing much better the past three years. When Whaley has been in charge. Kick Whaley for his mistakes if you want (trading Matt Cassel was just so stupid) but his batting average is the best the Bills have had since Bill Polian and John Butler and A.J. Smith.