dave mcbride Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 According to PFR, Mario Williams was the fifth best player in the NFL last year: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/leaders.htm AV explained (with links): http://www.sports-reference.com/blog/approximate-value/
TheFunPolice Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 I love Mario but I wonder if he will agree to restructure to stay on a team where he is frustrated and dropping into coverage Could you trade Mario for Rivers?
NoSaint Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 I love Mario but I wonder if he will agree to restructure to stay on a team where he is frustrated and dropping into coverage Could you trade Mario for Rivers? if a basic restructure he would get more money upfront, and odds are hes here either way.... so, yes?
TheFunPolice Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 to be clear, I want Mario to stay. But what if they could trade him for Rivers, who doesn't want to move to LA? Total hypothetical. You get Rivers, who maybe has 2-3 top years left. They get Mario, a great DE who maybe has 2-3 top years left. Rivers gets not to have to move to LA. There are a lot of houses with acres of land in Orchard Park for all 20 of his kids (yes I am exaggerating by a few). The Chargers get a great player back in the trade and avoid an unhappy QB. I'm not sure Mario would be enough in the trade, but then again, Rivers will be in his late 30's so it isn't like he's still in his prime.
Leroi Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Marcell or Mario?? The decision has been made. He MUST restructure. Imo
NoSaint Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Marcell or Mario?? The decision has been made. He MUST restructure. Imo Do tell what you envision that restructure entailing
Leroi Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Do tell what you envision that restructure entailing I would convert 80% of his salary to a signing bonus then prorate it over the remaining years of his contract then add in some incentives. That would free up aboot 10 mil. Imo
NoSaint Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) I would convert 80% of his salary to a signing bonus then prorate it over the remaining years of his contract then add in some incentives. That would free up aboot 10 mil. Imo Right now and this years salary? Or? As far as I can tell there's no combo of timing and salary that would accomplish that this year or next unless you are also extending or giving a pay cut. Edited October 27, 2015 by NoSaint
Mikie2times Posted October 27, 2015 Author Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Mario had five sacks in the first five games when the Texans switched to the 34 before getting injured in 2011. The emergence of JJ Watt and the Texans desire not to make him then highest paid DE at the time is why they were OK with losing him in free agency. Mario had an All Pro year in the same kind of hybrid 34 in Petine's scheme. It is not that he is playing in a 34, it is what he is being asked to do in Ryan's scheming of it. He is one of the best at his position, regardless, and it would be stupid to simply let him go. GO BILLS!!! Mario would be the largest outside linebacker in the NFL if that is where you slotted him, which is a place Wade Phillips slotted him in the year you're referencing. If he's playing 3-4 OLB, he will drop into coverage. He can't rush every play, if he did you're destroying the foundation of what makes the 3-4 effective which is confusion. Mario has already complained about dropping into coverage once this year, so that would indicate to me what I'm saying is playing out. The other option is a 3-4 DE, which is not a pass rushing position. It is the DE equivalent of a NT, meant to clog lanes and free linebackers. That sure as heck isn't Mario. As a 3-4 OLB he will likely get us 10 sacks a year. His impact won't be felt much beyond that. You will see a few plays a game in which he makes a considerable impact on the game. The rest of the time he will be in limbo, outside of what his best skill set is. He's on the wrong side of 30 and comes with over a 20 million dollar cap hit. If we ran a 4-3 I wouldn't be having this discussion. If I didn't think Rex was completely married to this system I wouldn't be having this discussion. If I thought Rex could be a one and done coach we wouldn't be having this discussion. Unfortunately all of the mentioned variables seem pretty etched in stone from my shoes. Which means if we do keep Mario, he won't be in the best position to be successful and in doing so he prohibits the team from upgrading in other areas. I didn't expect this thread to be favorable, Mario is physical freak of nature and will perform well in just about any position within reason. But that's not why you spend 20 million a year on a player. You only do that if he is elite and in a position to have his talents completely maxed out. This is not that situation. Edited October 27, 2015 by KzooMike
stony Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 Mario would be the largest outside linebacker in the NFL if that is where you slotted him, which is a place Wade Phillips slotted him in the year you're referencing. If he's playing 3-4 OLB, he will drop into coverage. He can't rush every play, if he did you're destroying the foundation of what makes the 3-4 effective which is confusion. Mario has already complained about dropping into coverage once this year, so that would indicate to me what I'm saying is playing out. The other option is a 3-4 DE, which is not a pass rushing position. It is the DE equivalent of a NT, meant to clog lanes and free linebackers. That sure as heck isn't Mario. As a 3-4 OLB he will likely get us 10 sacks a year. His impact won't be felt much beyond that. You will see a few plays a game in which he makes a considerable impact on the game. The rest of the time he will be in limbo, outside of what his best skill set is. He's on the wrong side of 30 and comes with over a 20 million dollar cap hit. If we ran a 4-3 I wouldn't be having this discussion. If I didn't think Rex was completely married to this system I wouldn't be having this discussion. If I thought Rex could be a one and done coach we wouldn't be having this discussion. Unfortunately all of the mentioned variables seem pretty etched in stone from my shoes. Which means if we do keep Mario, he won't be in the best position to be successful and in doing so he prohibits the team from upgrading in other areas. I didn't expect this thread to be favorable, Mario is physical freak of nature and will perform well in just about any position within reason. But that's not why you spend 20 million a year on a player. You only do that if he is elite and in a position to have his talents completely maxed out. This is not that situation. I don't remember James Harrison or DeMarcus Ware dropping into coverage much. Your rationale stinks to be honest. He's a helluva player that's excelled in both 3-4 and 4-3 fronts. Rex's scheme just ain't helping him much.
3rdand12 Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 Mario is being wasted under Rex the same way he was in Houston. he aint all that all the time. set the edge and stfu I would convert 80% of his salary to a signing bonus then prorate it over the remaining years of his contract then add in some incentives. That would free up aboot 10 mil. Imo you are hired. and where would you put that 10 mil? Be careful because you might be fired just as quickly.. I don't remember James Harrison or DeMarcus Ware dropping into coverage much. Your rationale stinks to be honest. He's a helluva player that's excelled in both 3-4 and 4-3 fronts. Rex's scheme just ain't helping him much. naw he has a point. It depends on what the rest of the team is doing. what exactly is rex doing wrong with Mario? Because i dont think how he uses Mario is all that wrong. Maybe Marios is unhappy again or he has a booboo hand? But i dont think its Ryans scheme or Mario thats is causing the difficulties. this whole rush the passer crap is absurd. of course Bills rush the passer, they rush the run too, just not so good right now. and where are my damned safeties? that why we suck. safeties. not pass rush.
stony Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 he aint all that all the time. set the edge and stfu you are hired. and where would you put that 10 mil? Be careful because you might be fired just as quickly.. naw he has a point. It depends on what the rest of the team is doing. what exactly is rex doing wrong with Mario? Because i dont think how he uses Mario is all that wrong. Maybe Marios is unhappy again or he has a booboo hand? But i dont think its Ryans scheme or Mario thats is causing the difficulties. this whole rush the passer crap is absurd. of course Bills rush the passer, they rush the run too, just not so good right now. and where are my damned safeties? that why we suck. safeties. not pass rush. What's the point? And I agree the fixation on sack numbers is absurd. But that's the whole reason the debate is ongoing. He's evaluated, right or wrong, based on this sole statistic. We've spent two years here trying to dispel this myth, and here it is again.
Mikie2times Posted October 28, 2015 Author Posted October 28, 2015 I don't remember James Harrison or DeMarcus Ware dropping into coverage much. Your rationale stinks to be honest. He's a helluva player that's excelled in both 3-4 and 4-3 fronts. Rex's scheme just ain't helping him much. They do drop into coverage unless they play a 5 technique at which point you basically have a 4 man front. While this might sound irrational to you I assure you it is more rational than using ones own memory as a source of rationalism.
3rdand12 Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 What's the point? And I agree the fixation on sack numbers is absurd. But that's the whole reason the debate is ongoing. He's evaluated, right or wrong, based on this sole statistic. We've spent two years here trying to dispel this myth, and here it is again. I no longer have a point. i do not understand why anyone dislikes our players. or has concern about the pay and value afforded. what does it matter? I dont care for stats. just the eye test. thats why i watch .Fantasy futbol has twisted up perspective. Mario can play football at an elite level. is he? watch the game. all 22 is a football lovers dream and nightmare.
stony Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) They do drop into coverage unless they play a 5 technique at which point you basically have a 4 man front. While this might sound irrational to you I assure you it is more rational than using ones own memory as a source of rationalism. I'm not going to argue, and I'm too damn lazy to look it up. Hopefully the D picks it up to the point there's no argument whether or not Mario and company are worth holding on to. This might not be the case this time, but sometimes us Bills fans aren't use to the Corvette in the garage and would prefer the 1999 F-150. Go Bills. I no longer have a point. i do not understand why anyone dislikes our players. or has concern about the pay and value afforded. what does it matter? I dont care for stats. just the eye test. thats why i watch .Fantasy futbol has twisted up perspective. Mario can play football at an elite level. is he? watch the game. all 22 is a football lovers dream and nightmare. No argument here. Edited October 28, 2015 by stony
3rdand12 Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 No argument here. I know Brother. we are having a tough time , yet again, as fans. Frustrated of course.
stinky finger Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 I think the secondary has actually played well this year. Front 7, not so much Darby has been the most consistent, standout defender thus far, IMO.
Beef Jerky Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 If Rex doesn't play to his players strengths & get figured out where he is going wrong within his scheme i think Mario will want to walk . Dennis Thurmon is not a DC at least not a good one ! He need sot put more faith in his players ability instead of his scheme & leave his ego at the door. Plus admit when it's just not working . This unit for the last 2 years have been one of the most feared defensive units in football & this year they look all of middle of the road . The players are the same, the thing that has changed is the coaches . So what does that tell us ?? Yep
Mikie2times Posted October 28, 2015 Author Posted October 28, 2015 Just to be clear, Mario is still a very gifted player. In no way am I taking that away. The fact that you could even look at him at OLB is ridiculous. I'm simply stating he is the most gifted player as a 4-3 DE and he is being paid a lot of money. The really sad thing is, we face the exact same thing with Dareus. Dareus is not a 3-4 NT. If anything he is a 3-4 End. Neither Mario or Dareus fit this system in it's current state and in the commonly looked at way regarding the defense itself. The two highest paid players on the team and two best defensive players we have. Just doesn't make sense.
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