Rob's House Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 We could have gotten Carr and our choice of OBJ, Mike Williams, or Kelvin Benjamin. Instead the smartest man in football doubled down on a very iffy prospect and burned 2 1sts and a 4th for a WR in the deepest WR class in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Is he going to be the next franchise QB? His numbers this year are pretty great: Â 65.8 percent completion pct, 11/3 TD-to-INT ratio, 7.6 ypa (8.0 adjusted ypa), and a very low 4.0 percent sack rate. All of that adds up to a rating of 101.0 through 6 games. Personally, I thought he began playing well in the second half of last season (with a couple of duds), and he's certainly on the improvement track this year. Great pick by the Raiders, who may well get to the playoffs in a mediocre AFC. Â http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CarrDe02.htm How do those compare to TT's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 We could have gotten Carr and our choice of OBJ, Mike Williams, or Kelvin Benjamin. Instead the smartest man in football doubled down on a very iffy prospect and burned 2 1sts and a 4th for a WR in the deepest WR class in years. That trade up is certainly starting to look like a reach. No slam on Sammy but you're correct a banner year for receivers, and whaley pays up the wazoo, the player gets injured, then speaks up about lack of targtets, this may not end well for the team.'Watkins when healthy will rip it up. probabaly on his second contract somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Â I used to love the excuses made for David Carr. Â First it was that he needed a star o-linemen. Then, he needed a star WR. Then, it was because he lacked a legit no. 2 WR. Then it would all come together if he only had a good TE. Â Â Sounds like the same excuses we had for Manuel/Losman/Edwards etc.... I have always been a big proponent that a good QB elevates a team, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Carr was very up and down in his rookie year - he has definitely taken a step. Bortles has taken a big step too and Bridgewater who probably had the best rookie year of the 3 last year is continuing to look solid (he was always the higher floor, lower ceiling guy). Â I do understand why Whaley didn't pick any of those three though. I think EJ had shown enough his rookie year to persist with and if you took the "just draft a Quarterback until you find one who immediately looks the answer" approach then you don't wait for those guys who do take the step. EJ didn't and they got it wrong... but I did not advocate a Quarterback early in 2014 and hindsight can be deceiving. Â I still believe it was how they had mismanaged the spot prior to 2013 rather than in 2013 and 2014 that has left them in this position. For me they have to draft a Quarterback early this year. It doesn't HAVE to be a 1st... but a 1st or 2nd should be spent at the position in my view if there is a guy there you think is worth a shot. Get a Quarterback and a left tackle first two pick please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 How do those compare to TT's? Hey -- I like TT! He can't come back soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I say we have Whaley flogged 100 times for every QB that he didn't draft since 2013. How he could pass up on all that elite talent? Now who is the pivot man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Â Â Sounds like the same excuses we had for Manuel/Losman/Edwards etc.... I have always been a big proponent that a good QB elevates a team, not the other way around. Agree completely. If you need to prop up your QB with a bunch of stars, it's not a good sign. Â It's why the skill guys that play with manning or Brady look mediocre when they go to other teams. If Edelman were on the Bills, he'd have stats like Chris Hogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Carr was very up and down in his rookie year - he has definitely taken a step. Bortles has taken a big step too and Bridgewater who probably had the best rookie year of the 3 last year is continuing to look solid (he was always the higher floor, lower ceiling guy). Â I do understand why Whaley didn't pick any of those three though. I think EJ had shown enough his rookie year to persist with and if you took the "just draft a Quarterback until you find one who immediately looks the answer" approach then you don't wait for those guys who do take the step. EJ didn't and they got it wrong... but I did not advocate a Quarterback early in 2014 and hindsight can be deceiving. Â I still believe it was how they had mismanaged the spot prior to 2013 rather than in 2013 and 2014 that has left them in this position. For me they have to draft a Quarterback early this year. It doesn't HAVE to be a 1st... but a 1st or 2nd should be spent at the position in my view if there is a guy there you think is worth a shot. Get a Quarterback and a left tackle first two pick please. It's not hindsight when so many people were calling for it during the 2014 off-season. Â If we'd taken OBJ or Mike Evans with our 1st we could have traded up in the top of the 2nd to snatch Carr. You don't have to give up on EJ in that scenario. He could still play that season with Carr riding the pine his rookie year. Then if EJ still didn't look good you've got a promising young prospect with a year in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) I know a lot of people were calling for it then. I wasn't and I think there was sound logic for that position even if hindsight makes it look wrong. Â Just as an aside we would have had to trade up for Evans too. I just don't think having a year 2 Quarterback with another highly drafted rookie sitting behind him is conducive to developing either guy. I didn't then and I don't now. Edited October 27, 2015 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 It's not hindsight when so many people were calling for it during the 2014 off-season. Â If we'd taken OBJ or Mike Evans with our 1st we could have traded up in the top of the 2nd to snatch Carr. You don't have to give up on EJ in that scenario. He could still play that season with Carr riding the pine his rookie year. Then if EJ still didn't look good you've got a promising young prospect with a year in the system. Unless we're assuming Marrone wouldn't have quit/been fired after his rookie year, he would not be in the same system in year 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Â Carr is more evidence that even if you're in "QB Purgatory" you can still acquire a good NFL QB. What's interesting is Reggie McKenzie, who's had his share of bad decisions, drafted a QB and then selected what many considered an elite receiver in Amari Cooper. Â Watching the Cardinals last night made me think too. They have carved a few good runs in getting QBs such as Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Some folks told me Carr sucked worse than EJ.This past offseason I was lambasted on here for saying that Carr came on the second half of last year and was going to be good this year and the same people you can imagine told me they'd rather have Manuel in a heartbeat. And of course these same people continue to go around asserting their opinion on who is and isn't a good quarterback even after they are wrong every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 This past offseason I was lambasted on here for saying that Carr came on the second half of last year and was going to be good this year and the same people you can imagine told me they'd rather have Manuel in a heartbeat. And of course these same people continue to go around asserting their opinion on who is and isn't a good quarterback even after they are wrong every time. The thing I think most people didn't consider was how bad Oakland was last year. Their top recievers were James Jones and Crabtree. Jones is killing it with Rodgers but who doesn't? He got cut from the Giants, he's bad. Crabtree is a #2 guy. Their rushing attack was hit or miss, and their defense, outside of Mack, was poor. For a rookie to have his TD:INT ratio with that team was incredible. Hell, throwing for 20+ TD's as a rookie is an above average year. Especially when you consider then being behind and teams playing the pass more/Carr pushing to attempt comebacks. Â Now with a legit #1 WR rookie(who is only going to get better) and some more added defensive guys, they are a decent team. And you're seeing growth in Carr along with the team. Which is honestly the best case scenario. They may not make the post season, but if they can add one or two more quality starters through the offseason and draft next year, I see them grabbing a WC spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I know a lot of people were calling for it then. I wasn't and I think there was sound logic for that position even if hindsight makes it look wrong. Â Just as an aside we would have had to trade up for Evans too. I just don't think having a year 2 Quarterback with another highly drafted rookie sitting behind him is conducive to developing either guy. I didn't then and I don't now. WRT Evans, I'm not interested in your facts. WRT the rest, I think we'll get along better if you just agree with me. This past offseason I was lambasted on here for saying that Carr came on the second half of last year and was going to be good this year and the same people you can imagine told me they'd rather have Manuel in a heartbeat. And of course these same people continue to go around asserting their opinion on who is and isn't a good quarterback even after they are wrong every time. It's lamb basted, dumbass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 WRT Evans, I'm not interested in your facts. WRT the rest, I think we'll get along better if you just agree with me. Â Haha. Listen, I accept there is an argument for your view I had some pretty good discussions with FireChan prior to the 2014 draft when he was advocating QB early and I wasn't. I don't think it was the way to go but I don't think it was a ridiculous position to take either..... in this particular case hindsight actually favours the position you took to an extent because Carr and Bridgewater who both slid are looking much better 6 or 7 games into their 2nd years than EJ did in the 4 games of his (and the 2 games of his 3rd year) but whether that scenario would have played out here - who knows. Â I like Carr though. I liked him before the draft, I liked him despite some uneven play in his rookie year and I like him even more now. Oakland are gonna get good pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The thing I think most people didn't consider was how bad Oakland was last year. Their top recievers were James Jones and Crabtree. Jones is killing it with Rodgers but who doesn't? He got cut from the Giants, he's bad. Crabtree is a #2 guy. Their rushing attack was hit or miss, and their defense, outside of Mack, was poor. For a rookie to have his TD:INT ratio with that team was incredible. Hell, throwing for 20+ TD's as a rookie is an above average year. Especially when you consider then being behind and teams playing the pass more/Carr pushing to attempt comebacks. Â Now with a legit #1 WR rookie(who is only going to get better) and some more added defensive guys, they are a decent team. And you're seeing growth in Carr along with the team. Which is honestly the best case scenario. They may not make the post season, but if they can add one or two more quality starters through the offseason and draft next year, I see them grabbing a WC spot. They didn't even have Crabtree last year. I couldn't even tell you who their #2 WR was after James Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Some folks told me Carr sucked worse than EJ. I miss CBiscuit97, hope all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Sadly, tannehill and carr are two of the younger qbs that will develop to be very good. Just further frustrating our team hungry for a qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I miss CBiscuit97, hope all is well. He hasn't posted since midway TC. I miss him as well. I assume he's okay because he was active yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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