BillsVet Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Exactly - which QB from EJ's class would you prefer? The frustration that they took Graham over Wilson - well, THAT hurts, but that was before Whaley. The point is personnel managers allowed this franchise, who have been without a decent QB since about 1995, to be backed into a corner necessitating the drafting of a QB in 2013. No decent NFL owner pays millions to personnel people to operate out of desperation so often. It reminds me of having to take a RB early in 2007 and having to take 2 guards high in 2009, or needing an OT in 2012. If there's one common denominator over the 15+ years of failure, it's been either poor evaluation of QBs or an absolute refusal to select them. That's on a GM more than anyone else in an organization. Edited October 26, 2015 by BillsVet
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I simply don't blame the Bills for taking EJ. They had to make an attempt to draft a franchise QB, and they identified EJ as the guy with the most physical talent, so they took a shot. It didn't work...that happens. The criticism, IMO, should be directed at passing on QB prospects in 2011 and 2012, when they had a babysitter (Fitz) for the position in place for a few years. That's when drafting a guy like Dalton, Kaep, Foles, or Wilson would've made sense. This, imo, is exactly why we will draft a QB this year regardless of Tyrod's performance. I think Tyrod can be good to very good, but that cannot stop you, as an organization, from taking shots on other prospects that you like.
DDD Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Yielding EJ and Sammy..... Hasn't worked out as well as one would have hoped. Remember when Buddy Nix was duped into having his phone conversation recorded and said "it was a bad year to need a franchise quarterback." He was was right but either he and/or Whaley still forced the pick. Not sure if Sammy Watkins had injury issues in college but he can't stay healthy at the pro level. You are correct, little to no production from three 1st round pics.
GG Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I simply don't blame the Bills for taking EJ. They had to make an attempt to draft a franchise QB, and they identified EJ as the guy with the most physical talent, so they took a shot. It didn't work...that happens. The criticism, IMO, should be directed at passing on QB prospects in 2011 and 2012, when they had a babysitter (Fitz) for the position in place for a few years. That's when drafting a guy like Dalton, Kaep, Foles, or Wilson would've made sense. Don't disagree, but Whaley went all in on EJ after the draft, signed Kolb, cut Tarvaris and blew off the position in 2014.
thebandit27 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 The point is personnel managers allowed this franchise, who have been without a decent QB since about 1995, to be backed into a corner necessitating the drafting of a QB in 2013. No decent NFL owner pays millions to personnel people to operate out of desperation so often. It reminds me of having to take a RB early in 2007 and having to take 2 guards high in 2009, or needing an OT in 2012. If there's one common denominator over the 15+ years of failure, it's been either poor evaluation of QBs or an absolute refusal to select them. That's on a GM more than anyone else in an organization. And as I have asked you about a half dozen times: what does that have to do with the current FO staff? Don't disagree, but Whaley went all in on EJ after the draft, signed Kolb, cut Tarvaris and blew off the position in 2014. He didn't blow off the position in 2014. They wanted to sign Orton before TC, but Orton didn't want to come to TC, so he signed a week before the season.
GG Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) He didn't blow off the position in 2014. They wanted to sign Orton before TC, but Orton didn't want to come to TC, so he signed a week before the season. I'm talking about the spring of 2014 and Orton wasn't available then. I think they had an oh sh** moment in the first OTAs and that's when the courting began. I'm with Marrone on this one, it was completely irresponsible to think that any combination of EJ/Lewis/Dixon/Tuel is NFL worthy. It looked stupid then, and hindsight proved it. Edited October 26, 2015 by GG
thebandit27 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I'm talking about the spring of 2014 and Orton wasn't available then. I think they had an oh sh** moment in the first OTAs and that's when the courting began. I'm with Marrone on this one, it was completely irresponsible to think that any combination of EJ/Lewis/Dixon/Tuel is NFL worthy. It looked stupid then, and hindsight proved it. I'm not sure what Marrone said to Whaley on the subject back then. I do think they should've hedged their bet by taking a mid-round QB in 2014, but the reality is that none of those guys really look like anything much at this point.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Derek Carr and Terry Bridgewater were available with trade downs last year. The Raiders and the Vikings have their franchise qbs in place for the next decade or so. I'm not saying they are elite qbs but they are legitimate franchise qbs with promising futures. The issue comes down to if you don't hit on a qb selection then you can't step back. You then with greater urgency and desperation get back into the market, (draft, free agency or trade}, and keep trying to address the qb need. If you fail in your attempts you simply keep at it. When teams drafting after you find solutions you can't make the lame claim that we weren't in position to resolve a debilitating problem. Notwithstanding the arbitrary franchise QB label, what makes you so certain Carr and Bridgewater are any better than Taylor?
GG Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I'm not sure what Marrone said to Whaley on the subject back then. I do think they should've hedged their bet by taking a mid-round QB in 2014, but the reality is that none of those guys really look like anything much at this point. If you believe all the behind the scenes rumors, especially at the Watkins trade, Marrone was incensed that Whaley was going after a WR when his QB position was in flux. To me it was always odd that Marrone sat EJ on the bench at the end of the rookie year when it looked like he was healthy enough to return. Then there was the big sideline blowup about the QB position. I think that it's becoming more clear that Whaley is personally invested in EJ and has done everything he can to eliminate internal competition. BTW, totally agree on missing out on the mid round guys in '14. They haven't done much, but they haven't crapped the bed either. But I do know the 3 Ms are better than Lewis/Dixon/Tuel, and for that matter, better than Ross Cockrell and Cyril Richardson.
thebandit27 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 If you believe all the behind the scenes rumors, especially at the Watkins trade, Marrone was incensed that Whaley was going after a WR when his QB position was in flux. To me it was always odd that Marrone sat EJ on the bench at the end of the rookie year when it looked like he was healthy enough to return. Then there was the big sideline blowup about the QB position. I think that it's becoming more clear that Whaley is personally invested in EJ and has done everything he can to eliminate internal competition. BTW, totally agree on missing out on the mid round guys in '14. They haven't done much, but they haven't crapped the bed either. But I do know the 3 Ms are better than Lewis/Dixon/Tuel, and for that matter, better than Ross Cockrell and Cyril Richardson. I was really surprised that they didn't take a crack at Mettenberger when he fell to rounds 4 and 5. Shocked actually.
GG Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I was really surprised that they didn't take a crack at Mettenberger when he fell to rounds 4 and 5. Shocked actually. In retrospect, it maybe coming in sharper focus.
BMWR100RT Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 "I stand by Whaley 100% if that is what this topic is about. Sammy is always hurt, couldn't have predicted that coming out of college." I can assure you that when he gets hurt you have two first round picks hurt. Dumbest draft move I've seen in years. And now what? The Bills are like the Sabres under Regier. Just good enough to stay average. The good news is I can go back to DVRing the game as I do when the season is lost and watching the entire game in 1:15, catching up to live TV just as time expire. It makes me feel less cheap watching this product somehow.
mountainwampus Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Whaley has screwed this team up beyond belief. He wanted to take credit for EJ before we all knew he was a bust, but now all of his apologists are coming out making up BS that Nix was responsible. NO. Whaley said "I set up the board" on the day EJ was drafted. Picking Watkins was purely selfish. Whaley wanted to trade away a pick he probably wouldn't get to use (as he should have been fired) so he chose the only player he felt could salvage his previous QB bust pick, and he chose poorly.
FireChan Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 In retrospect, it maybe coming in sharper focus. The story fits. Everything points to it.
thebandit27 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Whaley has screwed this team up beyond belief. He wanted to take credit for EJ before we all knew he was a bust, but now all of his apologists are coming out making up BS that Nix was responsible. NO. Whaley said "I set up the board" on the day EJ was drafted. Picking Watkins was purely selfish. Whaley wanted to trade away a pick he probably wouldn't get to use (as he should have been fired) so he chose the only player he felt could salvage his previous QB bust pick, and he chose poorly. Yes...screwed up beyond belief. Not like Whaley is responsible for Woods, Sammy, McCoy, Harvin, Clay, Karlos, Tyrod, Preston Brown, or Darby.
Dopey Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Anyone else prefer old man polian over Whaley now? Our owners wanted polian- don't forget thatNo
Mr. WEO Posted October 26, 2015 Author Posted October 26, 2015 Whaley would be snapped up in a second if we fired him. By who? Really--give us a list of teams that are all watching what is going on in Buffalo and would conclude they have to have Whaley as their next GM? Lend them your crystal ball then, WEO. It's a reflection on the picks, doc. Says so right there.
Doc Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 It's a reflection on the picks, doc. Says so right there. Hindsight's always 20/20.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Not a single pro bowler Whaley has drafted. Tells you everything.
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