JohnC Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 yea, i dont particularly want polian either right now. I brought this up in another thread so I'm being repetitious but looking back instead of drafting Watkins with the trade up maneuver we could have traded down and selected either Derick Carr or Terry Bridgewater. Our qb position would now be secured and the rebuilding process would be accelerated. It doesn't matter what the front office does. We will have an incomplete and a fringe team until the qb issue is addressed.
birdog1960 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 i'd have rather had polian. I think watkin's attitude is a problem as well. he's not performed like moss or owens yet his public complaint about not enough looks shows the same arrogance. even when you've proved yourself to be at that level, it's not a desirable trait for a team player. whaley could have done as well or better waiting and saved a pick. it was an outrageous and cavalier move.
thebandit27 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I simply don't blame the Bills for taking EJ. They had to make an attempt to draft a franchise QB, and they identified EJ as the guy with the most physical talent, so they took a shot. It didn't work...that happens. The criticism, IMO, should be directed at passing on QB prospects in 2011 and 2012, when they had a babysitter (Fitz) for the position in place for a few years. That's when drafting a guy like Dalton, Kaep, Foles, or Wilson would've made sense.
Rob's House Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 As far as 2013, I don't think it's awful because at least we still have something to show for it, but to put it into perspective, do you think anyone would trade a top 10 pick for Manuel & a 28 yr old McCoy with a big contract?
BobChalmers Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Sammy's health is worrisome, but there is no question how good he is on the field - he is drawing doubles nearly every play - you can see it in the whole rest of the offense consistently doing worse when he's not on the field. Without Sammy noone is getting open for them. I simply don't blame the Bills for taking EJ. They had to make an attempt to draft a franchise QB, and they identified EJ as the guy with the most physical talent, so they took a shot. It didn't work...that happens. The criticism, IMO, should be directed at passing on QB prospects in 2011 and 2012, when they had a babysitter (Fitz) for the position in place for a few years. That's when drafting a guy like Dalton, Kaep, Foles, or Wilson would've made sense. Exactly - which QB from EJ's class would you prefer? The frustration that they took Graham over Wilson - well, THAT hurts, but that was before Whaley.
thebandit27 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Sammy's health is worrisome, but there is no question how good he is on the field - he is drawing doubles nearly every play - you can see it in the whole rest of the offense consistently doing worse when he's not on the field. Without Sammy noone is getting open for them. Exactly - which QB from EJ's class would you prefer? The frustration that they took Graham over Wilson - well, THAT hurts, but that was before Whaley. I actually get more worked up that they took Aaron Williams over Dalton.
ProcessAccepted Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I'd like to bring Schwartz back for the D and then draft Conner Cook and a big LB to cover Gronk. Agreed!!!!! If our D played like last year we would have won that game. Schwartz got basically the same guys to perform at such a high level. Rex needs to break out the game film from last year and learn. EJ will take the heat today, and rightly so but lets not forget whats happened to this record setting defense. Rex said multiple times how this was the most defensive talent that he has ever had to coach. EJ can play well at times but just not consistently enough to carry a team when the need it. In his defense he was playing with an injury depleted offense, however that should have prepared him to take better care of the ball. If the forward progress call hadn't gone his way it would have been even worse. The only positive that I can say about the game is that it killed off that remaining 5% of doubt I foolishly had about EJ being a bust. I am now certain that he is a bust. Get well soon Tyrod, we missed you yesterday.
NoSaint Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) As far as 2013, I don't think it's awful because at least we still have something to show for it, but to put it into perspective, do you think anyone would trade a top 10 pick for Manuel & a 28 yr old McCoy with a big contract?no, but thats not a particularly fair way to put it either. would you trade a top ten pick for any of the top ten in that draft going into a veteran contract? heck, id guess without going back and looking that probably close to 20 of the teams that selected a guy in that first round would atleast consider trading the guy they picked for mccoy today (barring already having a stud back or cap issues) and we got a DROY season, and a shot at the best qb of the bunch in addition. Edited October 26, 2015 by NoSaint
dorquemada Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 As far as 2013, I don't think it's awful because at least we still have something to show for it, but to put it into perspective, do you think anyone would trade a top 10 pick for Manuel & a 28 yr old McCoy with a big contract? lol, nope. We'd get more for just McCoy than bundling him with Dr Doolittle
ProcessAccepted Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 lol, nope. We'd get more for just McCoy than bundling him with Dr Doolittle Now that is funny.
FireChan Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 no, but thats not a particularly fair way to put it either. would you trade a top ten pick for any of the top ten in that draft going into a veteran contract? heck, id guess without going back and looking that probably close to 20 of the teams that selected a guy in that first round would atleast consider trading the guy they picked for mccoy today (barring already having a stud back or cap issues) and we got a DROY season, and a shot at the best qb of the bunch in addition. If the pick netted McCoy, it also netted his extension. You cannot separate them. That draft was so bad, I bet that your 20ish comment is accurate.
CodeMonkey Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Yielding EJ and Sammy..... Hasn't worked out as well as one would have hoped. Manuel looks like a swing and a miss at this point. Jury still out on Watkins as a player, but it is pretty clear so far his issue isn't talent, it's in his ability to stay on the field. However given the fact that Whaley paid an additional 1st for him when he could have stood pat and in all likelihood gotten OBJ without giving up the additional 1st isn't making that pick look like the work of a genius.
birdog1960 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Manuel looks like a swing and a miss at this point. Jury still out on Watkins as a player, but it is pretty clear so far his issue isn't talent, it's in his ability to stay on the field. However given the fact that Whaley paid an additional 1st for him when he could have stood pat and in all likelihood gotten OBJ without giving up the additional 1st isn't making that pick look like the work of a genius. a genius doesn't produce a 3-4 team with a loss to one of the worst teams in the league while having a very high payroll. I think we can very safely conclude he's no genius. the real question is whether he is a desirable or even adequate gm. I suspect a majority of league owners would say no at this point. they'd likely look elsewhere if wanting to make a change.
JohnC Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Sammy's health is worrisome, but there is no question how good he is on the field - he is drawing doubles nearly every play - you can see it in the whole rest of the offense consistently doing worse when he's not on the field. Without Sammy noone is getting open for them. Exactly - which QB from EJ's class would you prefer? The frustration that they took Graham over Wilson - well, THAT hurts, but that was before Whaley. Derek Carr and Terry Bridgewater were available with trade downs last year. The Raiders and the Vikings have their franchise qbs in place for the next decade or so. I'm not saying they are elite qbs but they are legitimate franchise qbs with promising futures. The issue comes down to if you don't hit on a qb selection then you can't step back. You then with greater urgency and desperation get back into the market, (draft, free agency or trade}, and keep trying to address the qb need. If you fail in your attempts you simply keep at it. When teams drafting after you find solutions you can't make the lame claim that we weren't in position to resolve a debilitating problem.
ko12010 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 a genius doesn't produce a 3-4 team with a loss to one of the worst teams in the league while having a very high payroll. I think we can very safely conclude he's no genius. the real question is whether he is a desirable or even adequate gm. I suspect a majority of league owners would say no at this point. they'd likely look elsewhere if wanting to make a change. Whaley would be snapped up in a second if we fired him.
Coach Tuesday Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Whaley would be snapped up in a second if we fired him. As a scouting director or assistant GM.
NoSaint Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) If the pick netted McCoy, it also netted his extension. You cannot separate them. That draft was so bad, I bet that your 20ish comment is accurate. to the first part - it did. and that is fair commentary. simply asking would someone trade a top ten pick for todays result (EJ with 3 years of trouble, Mccoy with extension, and having had a year of kiko) is not fair on the surface though. rarely would teams trade a top 10 pick for anyone going into a vet contract outside of quarterbacks, and a handful of absolute elite studs at key positions. when evaluating if a pick was successful "would you trade a top 10 for the end result 3 years later" isnt a very good matrix to use in my opinion. i would say given hindsight, if you asked me among the reasonable choices at 9, vs trading back for what we got, i wouldnt be offended by the result of a shot at a qb, and a strong year out of a lb that got turned into an elite back. the pick we held and next few were: tavon austin, dee milliner, chance warmack, dj fluker and dj hayden. sheldon richardson would be tempting but is crazy (so 4 cheap years out of him and then not be sure what to do vs ej, kiko, mccoy?) Edited October 26, 2015 by NoSaint
birdog1960 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 Whaley would be snapped up in a second if we fired him. why? based on what?
NoSaint Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 why? based on what? the fact that hes put together a fair amount of talent and seems to be highly respected around the league.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) the fact that hes put together a fair amount of talent and seems to be highly respected around the league. Never heard that before, though the talking heads at the draft said the opposite that there was some front offices laughing and shaking their heads when the Bills took EJ Manuel and traded up for Sammy Watkins. Edited October 26, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever
Recommended Posts