Beerball Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 I simply don't blame the Bills for taking EJ. They had to make an attempt to draft a franchise QB, and they identified EJ as the guy with the most physical talent, so they took a shot. It didn't work...that happens. The criticism, IMO, should be directed at passing on QB prospects in 2011 and 2012, when they had a babysitter (Fitz) for the position in place for a few years. That's when drafting a guy like Dalton, Kaep, Foles, or Wilson would've made sense. Yes, 1000 times yes. The Luck O' the Bills put them in this mess in the one draft where there was nothing available at the position they needed most. The criticism for the Watkins trade is threefold IMO. They took a play making WR before they had a QB that could take advantage of his abilities. They gave up a precious #1 pick. Watkins has yet to prove his worth. We do have to remember the uncertainty surrounding the team due to RW's passing. IMO that helped push Whaley into making the Watkins trade.
NoSaint Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 The only really stellar move I've seen since Whaley's been here is Darby. He's had a few other nice moves, but that's the only one that really stands out. That one looks like a Rex influenced pick, but we'll let Whaley have it. Where do you draw the line of "since Whaley has been here" as a jumping off point?
Santana Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 I think the first round picks are kind of over valued these days. Sure we got EJ and Sammy in the first rounds and yeah sammy is having a bad year but so are a lot of 2nd year receivers. I don't think it's fair to just look at a draft and determine how good it was by the first round alone. 2013 Draft Class: 2 41 Robert Woods WR USC 2 46 Kiko Alonso LB Oregon Pick from STL[a] 3 78 Marquise Goodwin WR Texas Pick from STL[a] 4 105 Duke Williams S Nevada 5 143 Jonathan Meeks S Clemson 6 177 Dustin Hopkins K Florida State 7 222 Chris Gragg TE Arkansas 2014 Draft Class: 1 4 Sammy Watkins Wide receiver Clemson 2 44 Cyrus Kouandjio Offensive tackle Alabama 3 73 Preston Brown Linebacker Louisville 4 109 Ross Cockrell Cornerback Duke 5 153 Cyril Richardson Guard Baylor 6 None — see draft trades below 7 221 Randell Johnson Linebacker Florida Atlantic 237 Seantrel Henderson Offensive tackle Miami 2015 Draft Class: 2 50 Ronald Darby CB Florida St 3 81 John Miller OG Louisville 5 155 Karlos Williams RB Florida St 6 188 Tony Steward OLB Clemson 6 194 Nick O'Leary TE Florida St 7 234 Dezmin Lewis WR Central ArkansasOut of the 20 Draft picks that we've had over the last 3 years. 8/9 of those players are/were regular starters. I don't know how that compares to the rest of the league but that just shows how young the core of this team really is. Doug Whaley is no genius but there are very very few GM's out there who are really hitting home runs on a majority of their picks. We need to give these players time to gel together and work consistently as a unit, sans all the injuries.
Steve O Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 While admittedly I didn't read through 4 pages of responses to the topic, I did mention a few times this weekend how we would have been better off without a first round pick in 2014. At least we would have two picks this year who have a chance of getting on the field.
Dorkington Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 We got EJ, McCoy and Sammy... Two out of three are legitimate threats on game day, they are just banged up this year. I'm not too mad about that haul. I think Whaley has put together some talent, but has failed miserably in selecting coaches. But really, in the modern NFL, without a QB, a team goes nowhere, and he has also screwed the pooch there. If we don't end the season with success at the QB position, I could see him being on the hot seat.
Rob's House Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Where do you draw the line of "since Whaley has been here" as a jumping off point? For the purpose of this I was starting with when he officially took over, but overall I start with the 2013 off-season, which would give him credit for Hughes, which he probably deserves. Of course, that also puts EJ on him. To be fair, I'm being a little hard on him because I think he's grossly overrated by the fan base. I don't think he's been awful, but I don't think he's been good either. He gets a lot of love for making splashy moves that feel like a welcome departure from the past, but a lot of what he does is foolish and irresponsible and we tend to give him a pass.
Santana Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 For the purpose of this I was starting with when he officially took over, but overall I start with the 2013 off-season, which would give him credit for Hughes, which he probably deserves. Of course, that also puts EJ on him. To be fair, I'm being a little hard on him because I think he's grossly overrated by the fan base. I don't think he's been awful, but I don't think he's been good either. He gets a lot of love for making splashy moves that feel like a welcome departure from the past, but a lot of what he does is foolish and irresponsible and we tend to give him a pass. I definitely agree with you on some of his FA moves or signings maybe being a little overboard. The thing is, I also remember a time when the Bills over payed for players that they would bring in like (ex: Langston Walker) while letting good players that we built up leave (ex Jason Peters). That happened so much over the past 15yrs. I'm not a Dough Whaley "Guy" by no means but I look at it like this. We have a GM who isn't afraid to fail, who takes chances and who is aggressive. At least there's effort being shown, whether it's good or bad at this point it's a valiant effort. I just don't want to go back to the days of being $20mil under the cap year after year and not trying to make the team better you know?
3rdand12 Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 EJ was doing fine until the injury in Cleveland. Then Maroon destroyed him. EJ is still trying to undo that damage. I'm not ready to write him off just yet, as I'm not ready to do that with Sammy either. But TSW has largely written off both; EJ as crap, and Sammy as injury-prone. I think both of them have a lot left to show. I have often considered you a reasonable sort. Yes, 1000 times yes. The Luck O' the Bills put them in this mess in the one draft where there was nothing available at the position they needed most. The criticism for the Watkins trade is threefold IMO. They took a play making WR before they had a QB that could take advantage of his abilities. They gave up a precious #1 pick. Watkins has yet to prove his worth. We do have to remember the uncertainty surrounding the team due to RW's passing. IMO that helped push Whaley into making the Watkins trade. expand please Doug Whaley as GM: 18-21. That's all that matters. And it's not outstanding. Who else bears more responsibility for this mess? shall we review the previous GMs record for fun? Lets start with Nix and work backwards shall we?
mannc Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 By who? Really--give us a list of teams that are all watching what is going on in Buffalo and would conclude they have to have Whaley as their next GM? . He might very well be in demand as a regional scout, in charge of linebackers. He certainly has no clue regarding QBs or offensive linemen.
3rdand12 Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 For the purpose of this I was starting with when he officially took over, but overall I start with the 2013 off-season, which would give him credit for Hughes, which he probably deserves. Of course, that also puts EJ on him. To be fair, I'm being a little hard on him because I think he's grossly overrated by the fan base. I don't think he's been awful, but I don't think he's been good either. He gets a lot of love for making splashy moves that feel like a welcome departure from the past, but a lot of what he does is foolish and irresponsible and we tend to give him a pass. He should be under scrutiny. Its a huge responsibility building a team that was severely depleted personnel wise. In Coaching and Players. Folks forget how awful this team was 5 year ago. we fans have mismanaged hope when it truly arrived. and we are now just a bunch of spiteful, bile spewing bunch of underfed dawgs waiting for the mailman. there. and the mailman never comes dig it
CardinalScotts Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) watkins ill wait on for 1 big reason....as we type this tonight he's 22...kid was drafted at 20. He'll be good for the record same for kouandjio also just 22 drafted at 20 Edited October 27, 2015 by CardinalScotts
K-9 Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 watkins ill wait on for 1 big reason....as we type this tonight he's 22...kid was drafted at 20. He'll be good for the record same for kouandjio also just 22 drafted at 20 This is a point worth remembering. We take for granted how young these guys are when confronted with adjusting to new teams, regimens, and living environments. GO BILLS!!!
Beerball Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 expand please There was a playoffs or bust mentality (maybe "win now" is a better phrase). New ownership on the way. Uncertainty about the future of the team. Uncertainty about continued employment.
billsfan_34 Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Nope, it hasn't . The Watkins pick still has potential, but EJ looks like an epic reach. Just not enough top shelf talent there, looks like a third rounder or so. The Bills need to select at least one QB in the top 3 rounds each year until they find a guy. Not saying it won't be Tyrod, but you have to keep plugging until you have one for sure. It's pretty clear EJM won't be back next season. Im not saying this to be harsh- third rounders after 3 years in dont do what EJ did yesterday. He just isnt smart enough to read defenses and is way to erratic in his passes. And good God the QB sneak was a cluster. Get low and drive already it was awful to watch he turned sideways and looked fetal. He is a good kid but isnt good enough for the NFL. As for Sammy- I dont have a big enough sample size cuz hes always hurt. That doesnt bode well for him either
nedboy7 Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 The last two games should not have been losses. Poor coaching and refs were just enough to sink the team. If they had won we would be talking about how good a GM Whaley is. I am not sure if he is yet but he is not the real issue.
billsfan_34 Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 The last two games should not have been losses. Poor coaching and refs were just enough to sink the team. If they had won we would be talking about how good a GM Whaley is. I am not sure if he is yet but he is not the real issue. Sadly in todays NFL you cant leave it in the hands of the officials. EJ put us in a monster hole--- we recovered then it got snatched away
3rdand12 Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 There was a playoffs or bust mentality (maybe "win now" is a better phrase). New ownership on the way. Uncertainty about the future of the team. Uncertainty about continued employment. Thats a lot of self induced pressure! Seems the fans feel that way too. no time to build and develop. just win baby ?
Coach Tuesday Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 watkins ill wait on for 1 big reason....as we type this tonight he's 22...kid was drafted at 20. He'll be good for the record same for kouandjio also just 22 drafted at 20 I'll throw this out there with Watkins, though: Eugene Parker. Watkins is already hinting at a dissatisfaction with the way he's used in this offense, and the way his "brand" is being diminished as a result. Watkins is going to be tough to re-sign if he produces - his agent is going to be a problem.
8-8 Forever? Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 I'd like to bring Schwartz back for the D and then draft Conner Cook and a big LB to cover Gronk. schwartz not coming back.
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