In defense of EJ (yeah, I said it!)

[TakeYouToTasker]

I did not realize you have been with the coaches at ravens and bills camp

 

My bad

Is your new argument that I don't know if Tyrod Taylor was exposed to film study, positional coaching, and developmental processes because I'm not a former member of the Raven coaching staff and current member of the Bills coaching staff?

[sfladave]

 

When I think of backup I think of two types of QB's. The first is one that come in and play in a pinch or have a short time to prepare and be ready to play - doesn't try to do too much and manages the game with hopefully few mistakes because of the conservative game plan. The second is someone learning behind the starter and learning - you hope your main guy doesn't go down so that it's not too early.

 

I don't see EJ as either of these types of QB's and I don't see this team needing the second type. In other words he's not the backup this team needs. On this team he should have been 3rd string.

When the Bills names Cassel as the #2 and EJ the #3 I assumed Cassel would be the go to guy if Taylor got hurt in the game and EJ was going to be the starter the next full week if Taylor couldn't return. This is why I didn't have an issue with trading Cassel. I have been a Taylor guy since the beginning of camp but I was encouraged by EJs play in the preseason games.

 

Cassel may not have single handedly killed us today like EJ did and may have even won us this game. However I still wouldn't want Cassel here as opposed to EJ. I'll be pulling whatever hair I have left on my head either way but no way Cassel comes back....err almost comes back from the deep ass hole EJ put himself into. Still more upside for EJ. Let's just hope Tyrod is ready to roll...err run against Miami in 2 weeks!

Edited October 26, 2015 by sfladave

[Billsmovinup]

EJ sucks. Give it a rest.

[todd]

A fumble for TD which is EJ's fault. A pick 6. Another interception that led immediately to a touchdown. There's no defense of EJ. He stinks and should have been cut after the game. He lost the game for the team and fans.

[Keukasmallies]

EJ is terminally inconsistent (Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.). He may have the heart, but he certainly doesn't have the tools to proceed through a sixty minute game in the NFL on a regular basis.

 

I hope the Bills' plane stops in Gander to let EJ off.

[ALF]

Cassel had 3 INTs behind a good OL and Dallas lost to the Giants.

 

I can' t trust EJ anymore after watching that 2nd quarter. He can be very good and very bad in same game.

 

Chance a coach can figure out how to eliminate the bad EJ

 

One report speculated the battery in EJ's helmet was dead.

Edited October 26, 2015 by ALF

[mmichii]

EJ is not the answer. Ya he led a comeback but his positively abysmal play created the situation in the first place. EJ is a good guy but he does not possess the tools to succeed in the NFL. All I kept thinking was "hospitality tent" He does not sense pressure. He is completely inaccurate. What about that worm burner he threw to Shady I think on that swing pass. Good franchises don't draft like this nor do they hold on to their mistakes like this. Although Mr Pegula has his heart in the right place hes making the same mistakes he made with the Sabres. He should of cleaned house from top to bottom. He should of hired a football czar to oversee football ops like many of us hoped. At some point Whaley has to be accountable for this mess. Yes hes brought in good talent BUT he drafted and held on to EJ. He wasted 1st round picks to move up to draft an injury prone receiver. He has made critical mistakes that have cost this team dearly in the win loss column. This franchise is a mess why wait around to start fixing it.

[bmur66]

I have never said anything bad about EJ until now. He has removed any doubt that he sucks. He does not see the field and is horribly inaccurate. On the positive side we may have found our backup of the future. As far as him or Cassell I'd say its a tossup.

Edited October 26, 2015 by bmur66

[eball]

Facts:

 

- EJ is not a very good NFL QB right now and may never be, primarily because of inconsistency.

 

- There is no question EJ handed the Jags 14 points directly, and gave them a short field on the 2nd pick. But he didn't allow Yeldon to break several tackles at the line and then run free into the end zone on a 3rd-and-2 play when stopping him would have forced a FG attempt.

 

- After exhibiting perhaps the worst five minutes of QB'ing the league has ever seen, EJ stayed calm and focused and led the Bills to 24 consecutive points -- including two beautiful TD throws and a "heads up" play on the 2-pt conversion attempt to draw a penalty.

 

- Yes, the PI call on Robey was terrible, but it wasn't a TD. A great defense doesn't let Jacksonville score after that.

 

- If Woods reaches out for the 1st down on his last catch we don't see that ridiculous 3rd down play and then the awful play call on 4th.

 

- If anyone cries that Matt Cassel should have been here instead of EJ please review the Dallas/NYG game tape. The Cowboys held the Giants to 289 yards and no passing TDs and LOST. Cassel was intercepted on three consecutive drives to start the 2nd half. Then, on the crucial final possession, Cassel's last three plays were sack, incomplete, and a 6-yard pass on 4th-and-8. No thank you.

 

Conclusions:

 

- EJ was a mix of terrible/great/average, but at the end of the day did enough that the Bills should have won. Leading a team back from 27-3 should count for something.

 

- This is not a great defense, but it is good enough if the offense doesn't give the other team double digit points.

 

- The season is not over. The wild card situation is a complete clusterf**k and there are about seven or eight teams who are competing for two spots. If the Bills' offensive weapons (Taylor, Watkins) and the right side of the line return after the bye, anything is still possible.

 

- I'm very depressed about the situation but taking a couple of weeks off is just what the doctor ordered.

 

Let's Go Mets!

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

None of those things are problems if EJ doesn't put us in a hole early. No late game heroics from Blake. No 1 yard. No bad call.

I am guessing that if it were any other QB you would say something different.

 

Yes, EJ was horrible getting sacked and fumbling with multiple defenders descending upon him and the next 2 drives throwing INT's. But he got his chit together and pulled off the comeback until the phantom PI call on Darby.

 

How about putting some credit on Shady for fumbling in or damn near the RedZone. Add those 3 lost points and it is also a different game. Blame EJ for a horrid 3 series, just don't forget the rest of the team dropping passes and missing tackles.

 

 

Funny thing was as I watched parts of the Cowboys Giants game I saw Matt Cassel throw 2 wobbling INT's (on consecutive drives) yesterday evening.

[Agent 91]

I don't think I did. Has TYGOD even thrown a pick six this season? Nope.

TYGOD?!?!?!?! thats about right though

[TheFunPolice]

It's so much fun to argue every year about terrible QBs

 

Tyrod Taylor is so much better than EJ that it's incredible, and Tyrod is not a great QB yet either.

 

The difference is that Tyrod might still have room to grow. EJ is EXACTLY the same as he always has been.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Calling out those in bold:

 

I will probably make similar posts in various threads throughout the week but the EJ dreamers need to be held accountable once and for all. EJ Manuel's performance today did not at all surprise most rational, intelligent Bills fans. But no matter how much it became painstakingly obvious, for whatever reason, 15% of Bills fans kept insisting that Manuel had this magic ceiling, had only played (now) 16 games, was ruined by Marrone, "good kid, great tools..."

 

I had to wait out a suspension last week and see Gugny post in the shoutbox that Tyrod Taylor is "terrible" (verdict's in on that one I guess) and in a thread that same day that Manuel's numbers through 15 games or whatever stack up favorably against hall of famers. Yeah guys who played in an era when 26 TD's and 15 INT's could win you MVP honors. Why don't you compare his numbers vs. a contemporary of his: Mike Glennon. Better yet, how do Tyrod Taylor's numbers (Take You to Tasker is the leader of the 'let's wait and see on EJ but verdict's in: Taylor sucks' bandwagon by the way) compare with those same players through 5 games??

 

I mean, the old, stale, tired arguments are so easy to refute. IT'S OVER! And the thing that bothers me about this is that I have spent so much of the last year (God knows why) telling everyone that he more than likely did not have it. And for what? It's not like I was asked to pick a number 1-10 and I took a number and Bills fan 4-ever took a number and I got lucky; this was plainly obvious to anyone who can watch and analyze a quarterback. There are two key components to being a good QB: thinking quickly and making quick, smart decisions and throwing an accurate football. He stinks at both! What in God's name did you see in this guy?

 

I digress. I hope this just dies forever. As I've stated previously, Bills fans who still support Manuel are eerily similar to Tebow-heads (saw there's a thread for that one too). Why? Why is he such a polarizing figure? He's just a bad QB, that's IT!

 

Go Bills and I certainly hope that the few of you who are trying to spread the 'Taylor sucks, that I know, but Manuel might still have it; hell, he might be an upgrade (WHAT?)' propaganda just quit it for good and start supporting the Bills starting QB who has had a HELL of a start to his career and may actually develop into/be the coveted franchise QB we've been waiting for lo these many years.

 

-Metz

Bravo Metz. Thank you for the hidden insults to people's intelligence. Maybe you should rethink - why you as well as I had to sit back on suspension - before you continue the jabs at people.

 

Yes, we think EJ has talent and could be a starter. Well so far it looks as if we are wrong for having an opinion. That does not mean you can sit there and call us idiots.

I will do my hardest to not fall into responding to antagonistic postings again.

Have a nice day.

[Bill from NYC]

A fumble for TD which is EJ's fault. A pick 6. Another interception that led immediately to a touchdown. There's no defense of EJ. He stinks and should have been cut after the game. He lost the game for the team and fans.

The only reason that EJ and RJ are not compared to each other on a consistent basis is because they look so different (and NOOO, I am NOT accusing Bills Fans or posters here of racism).

 

On one of EJ's sacks yesterday, it looked as if he had 6 seconds in the pocket. He just stood there and stood there and got crushed. That is what killed RJ, and he was more talented the Manuel imo. RJ had a nice touch and unlike EJ, he was accurate on short and moderate passes. He had a great arm, and he could run without being clumsy. But even with all that talent, he really did suck. Well, so does EJ, and I can't imagine him getting much better.

 

It's a shame too. I never had high expectations for him but he seems like a good kid.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

Horrible doesn't bring a team back from 24-3 to take the lead in the 4th. He accomplished that! And on the flip side, he's the one who got us in that 24-3 hole. Had the defense made that one last stop, we'd be praising him for bringing us back. But he'd still be riding the pine behind TT when he comes back. I give him credit where it'd due, but at best, he's a 7-9 caliber starter. At worse, he'll get you to 5-11 and a top 5 pick in the next draft.

I have to disagree. Some of the people here would, not all would.

[TheFunPolice]

EJ lacks the most important traits for a QB

 

1) pocket presence

2) accuracy

3) consistency

 

If he doesn't have it by now he's not going to. Guys come into the league as rookies with better skills in those 3 areas.

 

Given that EJ is pretty much exactly where he was as a rookie I don't see how he is going to improve.

 

Everything else can be worked on. A "big arm" is a nice bonus, but Montana, Brady, and Manning never had big arms and they are 3 of the best ever.

Edited October 26, 2015 by TheFunPolice

[Agent 91]

My fear with EJ is he will pull a drew brees/Rich Gannon on us. Brees was benched for a 40+ year old Flutie and ran out of San Diego got offered one starting postion with a good coach on a crap team in NO and now has a ring. EJ has a ton of talent but looks lost too often and was clearly the worst Bill today but I always have hope for guys who work hard.

I dont see Brees but i could see a Fitz. But in his case 8 or 9 win guy.

[TheFunPolice]

Anyone who compares EJ to Brees never actually watched Brees in SD

 

Brees had accuracy, for example.

[BuffaloHokie13]

You don't think I do, but I've seen enough that I'm more than comfortable with the evaluation given Tyrod's time in the league.

 

In Tyrod's 5th year in the league; after 5 years of film study, camps, development, positional coaching, and practice, I'd expect him to be able to read a defense pre-snap, get through progressions, change protection and play calls at the LOS, hit open receivers in space, make hot reads, have composure in the pocket, and not run into sacks.

 

But he can't. He's limited, and limited doesn't win in the NFL. That's all there is to it.

Just so we're clear, in his 5 starts you've seen enough to evaluate that Tyrod isn't great and has no room to grow, but in 15 starts you still thought EJ Manuel was the best QB on our roster? I see his 16th start changed your opinion a bit.

Edited October 26, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13

[CountDorkula]

EJ lacks the most important traits for a QB

 

1) pocket presence

2) accuracy

3) consistency

 

If he doesn't have it by now he's not going to. Guys come into the league as rookies with better skills in those 3 areas.

 

Given that EJ is pretty much exactly where he was as a rookie I don't see how he is going to improve.

 

Everything else can be worked on. A "big arm" is a nice bonus, but Montana, Brady, and Manning never had big arms and they are 3 of the best ever.

 

I will add,

 

ability to look off a defender.

Stares down WR's.