Hot Buffalo Wings Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 I've been pretty critical of EJ since midway through his rookie season, but I have to admit that as bad as he was, He played the best football of his NFL career in the second half of that game. Yes, he still made mistakes (threw a would be pick in the end zone) and melted down on the final drive, but otherwise he showed better composure and ball placement than I've seen from him. My theory is that after 3 TOs on 3 drives he knew it couldn't get any worse, thus no pressure, he relaxed and just played football. Then with the game on the line again he felt the pressure and collapsed. What I'm saying is perhaps he's a good QB except for his inability to overcome the jitters. If TT missed more time, I suggest we give EJ xanax before the game and see how he does. At the end of the game it was ridiculous play calling that is to blame for coming up short. I don't think our WRs were getting open very often.
reddogblitz Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) There is no defense for EJ. He makes the mistakes Tyrod does not While down by 8 in the 4th with 2 minutes left with the football to try to get a tie, throwing a pick on the first play is not a mistake? Edited October 27, 2015 by reddogblitz
Prickly Pete Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 I've been pretty critical of EJ since midway through his rookie season, but I have to admit that as bad as he was, He played the best football of his NFL career in the second half of that game. Yes, he still made mistakes (threw a would be pick in the end zone) and melted down on the final drive, but otherwise he showed better composure and ball placement than I've seen from him. My theory is that after 3 TOs on 3 drives he knew it couldn't get any worse, thus no pressure, he relaxed and just played football. Then with the game on the line again he felt the pressure and collapsed. What I'm saying is perhaps he's a good QB except for his inability to overcome the jitters. If TT missed more time, I suggest we give EJ xanax before the game and see how he does. He is a good QB "except for his inability to overcome the jitters". But that's the problem. He crumbled, right there in front of the world. He just lost it, and that is the biggest no-no in football, especially for a QB. It's over, EJM will never be reliable.
FireChan Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 While down by 8 in the 4th with 2 minutes left with the football to try to get a tie, throwing a pick on the first play is not a mistake? Deflected off his WR's hands? It's not like he hit a linebacker in the chest twice. Or is this another one of those times where "a pretty pick is still a pick," and no nuance need apply?
NOVABillsFan Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) I've been pretty critical of EJ since midway through his rookie season, but I have to admit that as bad as he was, He played the best football of his NFL career in the second half of that game. Yes, he still made mistakes (threw a would be pick in the end zone) and melted down on the final drive, but otherwise he showed better composure and ball placement than I've seen from him. My theory is that after 3 TOs on 3 drives he knew it couldn't get any worse, thus no pressure, he relaxed and just played football. Then with the game on the line again he felt the pressure and collapsed. What I'm saying is perhaps he's a good QB except for his inability to overcome the jitters. If TT missed more time, I suggest we give EJ xanax before the game and see how he does. I might have gotten the poster wrong - if so I apologize beforehand From what I read here and from you - that is very high praise for EJ. Edited October 27, 2015 by NOVABillsFan
reddogblitz Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Deflected off his WR's hands? It's not like he hit a linebacker in the chest twice. Or is this another one of those times where "a pretty pick is still a pick," and no nuance need apply? So it's OK if it bounces off a WR's hands? Sammy jumped as high as he could to catch a high pass. It was a bad pass even if it didn't hit a LB in the chest twice. You're full of excuses for Hotrod. Hotrod's a big boy. He doesn't need you making excuses for him.
FireChan Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) So it's OK if it bounces off a WR's hands? Sammy jumped as high as he could to catch a high pass. It was a bad pass even if it didn't hit a LB in the chest twice. You're full of excuses for Hotrod. Hotrod's a big boy. He doesn't need you making excuses for him. It went straight up in the air after Sammy deflected it. Would have fallen to the ground incomplete otherwise. Yes, I consider the QB to be less at fault when the ball deflects off a reciever's hands. Who wouldn't agree with that? I suppose you believe Brady made a huge mistake when that pick six flew off Edelman's hands last week? Edited October 27, 2015 by FireChan
reddogblitz Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 It went straight up in the air after Sammy deflected it. Would have fallen to the ground incomplete otherwise. Yes, I consider the QB to be less at fault when the ball deflects off a reciever's hands. Who wouldn't agree with that? I suppose you believe Brady made a huge mistake when that pick six flew off Edelman's hands last week? Not if the pass is as high as that one was. If it were a nice thrown ball and went through Sammy's hands, then yeah, not on the QB. If it sails over his head and he jumps as high as he possibly can and barely gets his hands on it and it becomes a tip drill pick, yeah, QB's fault.
Rob's House Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 So it's OK if it bounces off a WR's hands? Sammy jumped as high as he could to catch a high pass. It was a bad pass even if it didn't hit a LB in the chest twice. You're full of excuses for Hotrod. Hotrod's a big boy. He doesn't need you making excuses for him. More nuanced analysis is objectively better than less nuanced analysis. I generally prefer to know if it was the result of a bad decision, bad throw, or something else. Then I'd prefer to know how bad the mistake was - was it 2 feet off or ten feet off? Thrown into coverage? Did the receiver run the wrong route or fall down? What were his alternatives? What was the situation? Etc. Just knowing he threw a pick doesn't tell you much.
machine gun kelly Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 You can't stare down receivers, only look at half of the field, and not see the defenders ready to jump routes. He has made no improvement in three years. None. I wanted him in the first year to improve and thought Marrone was probably hard on him, but at this point stick a fork in him. He's done. It's over and stop with the apologists. He single handedly gave up 21 pts to probably the worst team in the NFL. Basic math. No picks and they only have 13 pts. This is an overestimation, but he stunk. I never want to see him on the field again. I would give another team money to take him.
Nihilarian Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 I've been pretty critical of EJ since midway through his rookie season, but I have to admit that as bad as he was, He played the best football of his NFL career in the second half of that game. Yes, he still made mistakes (threw a would be pick in the end zone) and melted down on the final drive, but otherwise he showed better composure and ball placement than I've seen from him. My theory is that after 3 TOs on 3 drives he knew it couldn't get any worse, thus no pressure, he relaxed and just played football. Then with the game on the line again he felt the pressure and collapsed. What I'm saying is perhaps he's a good QB except for his inability to overcome the jitters. If TT missed more time, I suggest we give EJ xanax before the game and see how he does. My response in another thread Sometimes those type of games need to happen to build character, and light a fire. It would be completely different if EJ continued to suck all game like Geno, and instead fought his way back outta that huge hole he dug himself. Fans might even be more forgiving had the defense not allowed Bortles that last TD. Not all QB's develop at the same pace, and some take more then four years to completely develop to a starting level QB. EJ still has the arm, and physical tools so it is still possible for him to improve with the mental aspect. EJ did seem to look a whole lot better when he had less time to think while running the hurry up offense. Then remember his first two seasons were with the mutt & Jeff show. I can only think that the entire offense would be better without all the injuries, and with a better line. Then both those young QB's might look a lot better. I think the Bills offense would have looked entirely different with Sammy, Percy and Goodwin in there this week. Lets not forget this is Greg Romans first season as OC and its only been seven games so far. This years offense hasn't had a chance to gel or get a strong semblance of cohesion simply because of all the injuries all season. That said the Bills are #8 in points scored, and 25th in yards which is better then last year.
Billsguy Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 When will Doug Whaley stop posting these, "in defense of EJ" threads? It's getting old Doug. Just admit that drafting EJ Manuel in the 1st round was a huge mistake and move on. The Bills organization blew it by drafting him. It's now a matter of cutting your losses.
reddogblitz Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 More nuanced analysis is objectively better than less nuanced analysis. I generally prefer to know if it was the result of a bad decision, bad throw, or something else. Then I'd prefer to know how bad the mistake was - was it 2 feet off or ten feet off? Thrown into coverage? Did the receiver run the wrong route or fall down? What were his alternatives? What was the situation? Etc. Just knowing he threw a pick doesn't tell you much. Nuanced my sweet bippy. You can watch it here: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015092001/2015/REG2/patriots@bills?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000534702&tab=videos I don't know about the route etc, but you can clearly see the pass was HIGH. Too high for Sammy to catch. Megatron have gotten it, but he's not on our team. I like Tyrod and if you look in the TBD archives you'll see I advocated signing him even before FA started. He has played well. However, when he throws a bad pick I'm not going to sugar coat it and say it wasn't his fault when the available video evidence shows otherwise. Tyrod throws that football a foot lower and it's a catch. Heck, 6 inches and Sammy at least has a chance to catch it. Do we provide the same "nuance" to EJ's picks Sunday? Maybe someone ran the wrong route. It's possible.
Rob's House Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Nuanced my sweet bippy. You can watch it here: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015092001/2015/REG2/patriots@bills?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000534702&tab=videos I don't know about the route etc, but you can clearly see the pass was HIGH. Too high for Sammy to catch. Megatron have gotten it, but he's not on our team. I like Tyrod and if you look in the TBD archives you'll see I advocated signing him even before FA started. He has played well. However, when he throws a bad pick I'm not going to sugar coat it and say it wasn't his fault when the available video evidence shows otherwise. Tyrod throws that football a foot lower and it's a catch. Heck, 6 inches and Sammy at least has a chance to catch it. Do we provide the same "nuance" to EJ's picks Sunday? Maybe someone ran the wrong route. It's possible. That's kind of the point. If a guy is a foot off I'm a lot less concerned than if he sailed it 5 feet over his head.
FireChan Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Nuanced my sweet bippy. You can watch it here: http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015092001/2015/REG2/patriots@bills?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000534702&tab=videos I don't know about the route etc, but you can clearly see the pass was HIGH. Too high for Sammy to catch. Megatron have gotten it, but he's not on our team. I like Tyrod and if you look in the TBD archives you'll see I advocated signing him even before FA started. He has played well. However, when he throws a bad pick I'm not going to sugar coat it and say it wasn't his fault when the available video evidence shows otherwise. Tyrod throws that football a foot lower and it's a catch. Heck, 6 inches and Sammy at least has a chance to catch it. Do we provide the same "nuance" to EJ's picks Sunday? Maybe someone ran the wrong route. It's possible. Joe Buscaglia @JoeBuscaglia 3m3 minutes ago I wanted to see if there was something I missed during EJ's second quarter implosion to explain it. Nope. Stared down targets. Easy INTs. 2 retweets 1 favorite
reddogblitz Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) That's kind of the point. If a guy is a foot off I'm a lot less concerned than if he sailed it 5 feet over his head. How in the heck is a 1 foot over better than 5 over? LOL But yeah, Norwood only missed that FG by a foot. Better than if he'd missed it by 5 feed I guess. At least we got that nuance. Reminder: There are no style points in football. Joe Buscaglia @JoeBuscaglia 3m3 minutes ago I wanted to see if there was something I missed during EJ's second quarter implosion to explain it. Nope. Stared down targets. Easy INTs. 2 retweets 1 favorite That settles it. Joe was in the huddle and knew the play call and what each WR is supposed to do, right? Edited October 27, 2015 by reddogblitz
FireChan Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 How in the heck is a 1 foot over better than 5 over? LOL But yeah, Norwood only missed that FG by a foot. Better than if he'd missed it by 5 feed I guess. At least we got that nuance. Reminder: There are no style points in football. That settles it. Joe was in the huddle and knew the play call and what each WR is supposed to do, right? Maybe Sammy was supposed to run a deeper route on Tyrod's pick and it would have been a perfect ball? Or were you in the huddle and I missed you on the broadcast?
reddogblitz Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Maybe Sammy was supposed to run a deeper route on Tyrod's pick and it would have been a perfect ball? Or were you in the huddle and I missed you on the broadcast? So I guess we can longer speculate on football plays because we don't have all the "nuance"d info. Does this apply to TT's play only or does it apply to other QBs as well? Some people on TBD choose their favorite guy and then it's like religion with them from then on. Tyrod has done some really good things and some not so good things. What's the matter with that? Edited October 27, 2015 by reddogblitz
FireChan Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) So I guess we can longer speculate on football plays because we don't have all the "nuance"d info. Does this apply to TT's play only or does it apply to other QBs as well? Some people on TBD choose their favorite guy and then it's like religion with them from then on. Tyrod has done some really good things and some not so good things. What's the matter with that? You just said this... How in the heck is a 1 foot over better than 5 over? LOL But yeah, Norwood only missed that FG by a foot. Better than if he'd missed it by 5 feed I guess. At least we got that nuance. Reminder: There are no style points in football. That settles it. Joe was in the huddle and knew the play call and what each WR is supposed to do, right? So Joe B can't speculate, but you can? You're the one with the double standard. Edited October 27, 2015 by FireChan
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