Eliot Wolf for GM of the Buffalo Bills

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Good move, bad player, overpaid average player, bad player, no-brainer signed 1 year too late, addressed previously, signed too late, lucky due to a psychotic GM/HC (remember, Spiller had our offer on his table), huge contract but a decent player, addressed previously.

All good moves imo.

 

Robey was a good player pre Rex, Lawson was an excellent signing. Incognito was such a no brainer that Whaley was the only GM in on it and people were shocked at the time.

[FireChan]

All good moves imo.

 

Robey was a good player pre Rex, Lawson was an excellent signing. Incognito was such a no brainer that Whaley was the only GM in on it and people were shocked at the time.

Robey was a nobody in the Schwartz scheme. He had one good year. That's the real story of Whaley's draft picks (even though Robey was a UDFA) IMO. One hit wonders. Brown, Woods, Goodwin, EJ, Kiko etc etc.

 

I was pounding on the table for Incognito for all of 2014. It was a no-brainer when we were trotting out CW and the other warm bodies.

Edited March 22, 2016 by FireChan

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Robey was a nobody in the Schwartz scheme. He had one good year. That's the real story of Whaley's draft picks IMO. One hit wonders. Brown, Woods, Goodwin, EJ, Kiko etc etc.

 

I was pounding on the table for Incognito for all of 2014. It was a no-brainer when we were trotting out CW and the other warm bodies.

You may have been but other teams were not, and much of our fanbase was not. He got a pro bowl guard for nothing and deserves a share of the credit. Those were all good pickups.

[Nihilarian]

 

 

2015 draft class - some promise but it's too early to tell. The 2013 class looked like Whaley had hit on EJ, Kiko, Woods and Goodwin back then for a few weeks. And we all know how that turned out.

 

Letting Levitre walk was a good move, replacing him with garbage street FAs, then replacing them with a grossly overpaid Chris Williams was embarrassingly bad.

 

What other masterful restructures?

 

What other very good moves?

To the Bolded. This GM allowed Levitre to walk and then tried to replace him with garbage players is absolutely correct. Some of those players were outright cut after a few games. 5 mill for Chris Williams to play 3 games! So the GM did that, that year with basically three rookie QB's on the roster along with no QB coach. Unbelievably moronic!

 

Now this year we all saw what a decent O line and run game that actually can make a first down will do for a young developing QB. When Tyrod was forced to throw more then run he didn't look so good. Anyone of those three young QB's might have progressed quite differently with a better line in front of them.

 

Richie Incognito wasn't Doug Whaley, nor was Tyrod Taylor. Both those players were brought in because of Rex Ryan. It was Ryan who stated he would take responsibility and vouch for Incognito and like you mentioned FC it came a year later than it should have when you consider what that 2014 line looked like. Ryan also liked what he saw of Taylor at Baltimore and tried to trade for him when he was with the Jets. The one position that a team needs to have to get anywhere is an elite franchise QB and Doug Whaley's version of that is EJ!

 

 

From what I've read it was the Colts who initiated the trade with trading away #1 pick LBer Jerry Hughes for Bills LBer Kelvin Shepard because new Colts GM Ryan Grigson wanted more toughness and size on defense!

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000165264/article/indianapolis-colts-trade-jerry-hughes-to-buffalo-bills

 

Dumping Stevie Johnson because he didn't run precise routes so EJ would have less trouble finding a WR was foolish after EJ was benched after three games. QB Kyle Orton could have really used a WR like Johnson who was always open. The trade for WR Mike Williams was lame. The trade for RB Bryce Brown (who did nothing in Buffalo) with a #4 pick which is the same round draft pick the Buffalo Bills got for Marshawn Lynch,

 

• 6 Mill on an older elite RB in a trade because the teams scouts can't find one in the draft.
• 100 million for a DE in free agency because the scouts can't find one in the draft...Aaron Maybin... Shawne Merriman
• Stupid money for an above average TE because the scouts can't find the talent in the draft.
• Look at what's happened at RG and RT over the last few years because the scouts can't find the talent in the draft.
• This team got incredibly lucky to find an all pro LG off the street because they couldn't find one in the draft.
• The Buffalo Bills are in cap hell and they aren't even paying 10-20 mill per for an elite QB!
• two first round picks for a WR when the team didn't already have an established franchise QB to throw to him! Not to mention that WR wasn't even the best WR in the draft so far.
• To top that off if the trade hadn't been made for Sammy this GM stated he would have drafted TE Eric Ebron

This team has been bad for so long that even a below average GM looks brilliant compared to having an owner as team president who hires an older ex-team HC as GM, has no GM or hires a retired head scout pretending to be the GM.

 

Doug Whaley has been a rookie GM learning as he goes at the expense of the Buffalo Bills winning games. This team still has a huge void at the top of the org chart that has no NFL football operations mind with the acumen in building a winning franchise!! The Buffalo Bills are in desperate need of another Bill Polian type president of football operations!! If the CEO Russ Brandon was really interested in seeing this franchise become a winning franchise he would push the new owners to hire that man to help the current GM.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Nihilarian

[BuffaloFan68]

In Whaley I trust, Russ Brandon not so much. If our D has a repeat of last year then Wade Phillips for HC in 2017.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

To the Bolded. This GM allowed Levitre to walk and then tried to replace him with garbage players is absolutely correct. Some of those players were outright cut after a few games. 5 mill for Chris Williams to play 3 games! So the GM did that, that year with basically three rookie QB's on the roster along with no QB coach. Unbelievably moronic!

 

Now this year we all saw what a decent O line and run game that actually can make a first down will do for a young developing QB. When Tyrod was forced to throw more then run he didn't look so good. Anyone of those three young QB's might have progressed quite differently with a better line in front of them.

 

Richie Incognito wasn't Doug Whaley, nor was Tyrod Taylor. Both those players were brought in because of Rex Ryan. It was Ryan who stated he would take responsibility and vouch for Incognito and like you mentioned FC it came a year later than it should have when you consider what that 2014 line looked like. Ryan also liked what he saw of Taylor at Baltimore and tried to trade for him when he was with the Jets. The one position that a team needs to have to get anywhere is an elite franchise QB and Doug Whaley's version of that is EJ!

 

 

From what I've read it was the Colts who initiated the trade with trading away #1 pick LBer Jerry Hughes for Bills LBer Kelvin Shepard because new Colts GM Ryan Grigson wanted more toughness and size on defense!

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000165264/article/indianapolis-colts-trade-jerry-hughes-to-buffalo-bills

 

Dumping Stevie Johnson because he didn't run precise routes so EJ would have less trouble finding a WR was foolish after EJ was benched after three games. QB Kyle Orton could have really used a WR like Johnson who was always open. The trade for WR Mike Williams was lame. The trade for RB Bryce Brown (who did nothing in Buffalo) with a #4 pick which is the same round draft pick the Buffalo Bills got for Marshawn Lynch,

 

• 6 Mill on an older elite RB in a trade because the teams scouts can't find one in the draft.
• 100 million for a DE in free agency because the scouts can't find one in the draft...Aaron Maybin... Shawne Merriman
• Stupid money for an above average TE because the scouts can't find the talent in the draft.
• Look at what's happened at RG and RT over the last few years because the scouts can't find the talent in the draft.
• This team got incredibly lucky to find an all pro LG off the street because they couldn't find one in the draft.
• The Buffalo Bills are in cap hell and they aren't even paying 10-20 mill per for an elite QB!
• two first round picks for a WR when the team didn't already have an established franchise QB to throw to him! Not to mention that WR wasn't even the best WR in the draft so far.
• To top that off if the trade hadn't been made for Sammy this GM stated he would have drafted TE Eric Ebron

This team has been bad for so long that even a below average GM looks brilliant compared to having an owner as team president who hires an older ex-team HC as GM, has no GM or hires a retired head scout pretending to be the GM.

 

Doug Whaley has been a rookie GM learning as he goes at the expense of the Buffalo Bills winning games. This team still has a huge void at the top of the org chart that has no NFL football operations mind with the acumen in building a winning franchise!! The Buffalo Bills are in desperate need of another Bill Polian type president of football operations!! If the CEO Russ Brandon was really interested in seeing this franchise become a winning franchise he would push the new owners to hire that man to help the current GM.

 

What you fail to acknowledge is the team that he inherited. He inherited the Chan bills!! Who were one of the least talented teams in the league for 3 straight years. We had no depth, and no top end talent. We had to draft multiple receivers because of the absolute garbage we trotted out there for the 3 previous years. Had no QB as we had to cut Fitz, a lousy O-line and a bottom 5 defense.

 

You blame him for overpaying mario? He was one of our best players in his time here - and we had the money to pay him. Not to mention he signed in 2012, a full year before DW was even our GM.

 

Clay is a bad contract sure, but not a bad player.

 

He also was promoted to GM AFTER Buddy and Russ hired Marrone. I'm sure he had some say in the decision, but who knows if that was his first choice.

 

And you completely ignored a really solid 2015 draft - despite not having that many picks. Several impact guys were drafted and were immediate contributors. You also give him 0 credit for TT and Cog...

 

Lastly, cap hell we are not. We're at the cap sure - but with a couple of contract extensions we'll have $ to cover our QB. Not to mention we have 13 mil in dead this year, and have 0 post june cuts so we have no dead money projected for 2017 yet. If we have to cut people to sign TT, thats a good thing! That means we finally have a QB.

Edited March 22, 2016 by dneveu

[CardinalScotts]

Whaley has done an outstanding job in a few years, the roster is loaded with talent. For some reason we seem to think every move should work. Take a second to look at other teams that's not how it works

 

-very easy to take a shot at Rodgers when if you miss SO WHAT with Favre already in place and playing well, it was a free spin not a great move

Edited March 22, 2016 by CardinalScotts

[metzelaars_lives]

Whaley has done an outstanding job in a few years, the roster is loaded with talent. For some reason we seem to think every move should work. Take a second to look at other teams that's not how it works

 

-very easy to take a shot at Rodgers when if you miss SO WHAT with Favre already in place and playing well, it was a free spin not a great move

Exactly. I have stressed over and over that the Bills have a GOOD offensive line (of course they do). Yet posters will write stuff about how we're doomed because we have a question mark at right tackle. Every team has question marks on the OL! Similarly, FireChan, in his short life of watching football, seems to think that there are these magic GM's out there that hit on every single pick and every single move they make. Ya know what? Robert Woods was the right pick. He was the consensus best receiver on the board at the time and we very much needed a WR. Whether he actually pans out or not is kind of besides the point (granted, you do have to hit on some or most of your high round picks). But those were exactly the picks that previous regimes did NOT make. Whaley never makes the "cute" pick- see: Whitner 8th overall, Torell Troup, TJ Graham, etc. He makes the obvious pick. And even when you make the no-brainer pick, it's not gonna work out every single time. The guy inherited a team with no QB whatsoever. QB is the most important asset your team can have. I believe that Whaley has done everything in his power to address it. You can't, as Biff from Tonawanda would call into GR to suggest, make a trade for Ben Roethlisberger. Look at the Patriots: they have had some terrible drafts in the Brady era (more often than not) and yet they're SB contenders every year. When someone is critical of the Manny Lawson signing (what??) you know that that person is simply not being objective and is already dead set on believing what they want to believe. Anyone with an objective football sense that follows the whole league and not just the Bills, understands that Whaley has been a very good GM thus far- at worst. Anyone who can't see that the guy has been right more often than he's been wrong is simply not paynig attention.

Edited March 22, 2016 by metzelaars_lives

[Nihilarian]

 

What you fail to acknowledge is the team that he inherited. He inherited the Chan bills!! Who were one of the least talented teams in the league for 3 straight years. We had no depth, and no top end talent. We had to draft multiple receivers because of the absolute garbage we trotted out there for the 3 previous years. Had no QB as we had to cut Fitz, a lousy O-line and a bottom 5 defense.

 

You blame him for overpaying mario? He was one of our best players in his time here - and we had the money to pay him. Not to mention he signed in 2012, a full year before DW was even our GM.

 

Clay is a bad contract sure, but not a bad player.

 

He also was promoted to GM AFTER Buddy and Russ hired Marrone. I'm sure he had some say in the decision, but who knows if that was his first choice.

 

And you completely ignored a really solid 2015 draft - despite not having that many picks. Several impact guys were drafted and were immediate contributors. You also give him 0 credit for TT and Cog...

 

Lastly, cap hell we are not. We're at the cap sure - but with a couple of contract extensions we'll have $ to cover our QB. Not to mention we have 13 mil in dead this year, and have 0 post june cuts so we have no dead money projected for 2017 yet. If we have to cut people to sign TT, thats a good thing! That means we finally have a QB.

News flash, this team still has a lot of holes on the roster and no depth in a lot of positions. The high priced players are on the team are here because the scouts couldn't find them in the draft and are a big reason for a lot of the top talent.

 

The 2016 Bills need a pass rushing DE because they couldn't afford to keep Mario. The team still needs two decent LBers and a solid starter at RG and RT. The current DT's and DE don't fit this head coaches 3-4 scheme so the team will be rebuilding the defense for years. OH, BTW the Bills fielded a bottom 10 defense last year!

 

Had to draft multiple receivers... and only one is really a top WR and he cost the team two firsts and a 4th!

 

The team didn't have to cut Fitz as the team chose to let him go because they felt he was overpaid. That was mostly because the tools in the scouting dept and GM kept bringing in more bums for the line and after the QB getting hit so often he looked like crap.

 

This team STILL wouldn't have a decent offensive line if it were up to the current GM and they still need two solid starters plus depth. That all pro LG or a QB that looks like he might be the real thing wouldn't even be on the team if it weren't for the new head coach. The GM didn't find those players!

 

The team paid Percy Harvin how much money to play in only six games last year? Signing bonus 3 mill and 2.9 mill base (fully guaranteed)for six games. I think it came down to about 4 mill for those 6 games. The Bills are now are talking about re-signing him because they fail to find that kind of talent in the draft. With the team still having holes in the WR corps because they couldn't afford to keep Chris Hogan.

 

I think I read a poll in this forum in which most of this fan base thinks the 2016 Buffalo Bills will win only 8 - 9 games this season and in my opinion, that is not good enough. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine is this GM still needs a bunch of help in building a winning team.

[FireChan]

Whaley has done an outstanding job in a few years, the roster is loaded with talent. For some reason we seem to think every move should work. Take a second to look at other teams that's not how it works

 

-very easy to take a shot at Rodgers when if you miss SO WHAT with Favre already in place and playing well, it was a free spin not a great move

Free spin? Vs. a 1st round pick at any other position that could help Favre win another SB? It was a move that took a lot of foresight, and it paid off.

 

Exactly. I have stressed over and over that the Bills have a GOOD offensive line (of course they do). Yet posters will write stuff about how we're doomed because we have a question mark at right tackle. Every team has question marks on the OL! Similarly, FireChan, in his short life of watching football, seems to think that there are these magic GM's out there that hit on every single pick and every single move they make. Ya know what? Robert Woods was the right pick. He was the consensus best receiver on the board at the time and we very much needed a WR. Whether he actually pans out or not is kind of besides the point (granted, you do have to hit on some or most of your high round picks). But those were exactly the picks that previous regimes did NOT make. Whaley never makes the "cute" pick- see: Whitner 8th overall, Torell Troup, TJ Graham, etc. He makes the obvious pick. And even when you make the no-brainer pick, it's not gonna work out every single time. The guy inherited a team with no QB whatsoever. QB is the most important asset your team can have. I believe that Whaley has done everything in his power to address it. You can't, as Biff from Tonawanda would call into GR to suggest, make a trade for Ben Roethlisberger. Look at the Patriots: they have had some terrible drafts in the Brady era (more often than not) and yet they're SB contenders every year. When someone is critical of the Manny Lawson signing (what??) you know that that person is simply not being objective and is already dead set on believing what they want to believe. Anyone with an objective football sense that follows the whole league and not just the Bills, understands that Whaley has been a very good GM thus far- at worst. Anyone who can't see that the guy has been right more often than he's been wrong is simply not paynig attention.

You may be the most intellectually dishonest poster on this board. Your smear campaigns and strawmans are actually revolting. It would be different if you were just a nonsense-spouting troll, but to imagine someone with an actual thinking brain gleefully using such deceit to "win" an argument online actually makes me a little sad.

Edited March 22, 2016 by FireChan

[metzelaars_lives]

Free spin? Vs. a 1st round pick at any other position that could help Favre win another SB? It was a move that took a lot of foresight, and it paid off.

 

You may be the most intellectually dishonest poster on this board. Your smear campaigns and strawmans are actually revolting. It would be different if you were just a nonsense-spouting troll, but to imagine someone with an actual thinking brain gleefully using such deceit to "win" an argument online actually makes me a little sad.

You think Whaley has been a poor GM for the Bills, right?

 

I can deduce from that that you believe most GM's in the league hit on a higher percentage of picks/signings/re-signings/restructures each year than Whaley does, right?

 

I would disagree with that. I think that in his brief tenure as the Bills GM that he has hit on a HIGHER percentage of moves than the average NFL GM. I think most people would agree with me on that.

 

But you talk about intellectually dishonest- in your argument to tell me that Whaley has been a poor GM, you cited Manny Lawson, who is playing on a 4 year, $12 million contract, as being overpaid? You cited Dan Carpenter, who gave the Bills the two best kicking seasons in franchise history before missing a handful of extra points last season, as a "bad player," inferring that his XP problem in year three on the Bills should be put on Whaley? Guys have windows. Whaley has been excellent at getting guys in their good windows and then letting them go at the right time. It's exactly what the Patriots do. I was more pissed than anyone when they let Fred Jackson go last year. Lots of people questioned letting Scott Chandler go at a pretty reasonable salary. He was right on both of those, as he's been time and time again.

 

Yes, Chris Williams was a bad signing. Every GM in the history of the NFL post free agency has made multiple bad signings. All in all, he's been a good GM. It's almost indisputable.

Edited March 22, 2016 by metzelaars_lives

[FireChan]

You think Whaley has been a poor GM for the Bills, right?

 

I can deduce from that that you believe most GM's in the league hit on a higher percentage of picks/signings/re-signings/restructures each year than Whaley does, right?

 

I would disagree with that. I think that in his brief tenure as the Bills GM that he has hit on a HIGHER percentage of moves than the average NFL GM. I think most people would agree with me on that.

 

But you talk about intellectually dishonest- in your argument to tell me that Whaley has been a poor GM, you cited Manny Lawson, who is playing on a 4 year, $12 million contract, as being overpaid? You cited Dan Carpenter, who gave the Bills the two best kicking seasons in franchise history before missing a handful of extra points last season, as a "bad player," inferring that his XP problem in year three on the Bills should be put on Whaley? Guys have windows. Whaley has been excellent at getting guys in their good windows and then letting them go at the right time. It's exactly what the Patriots do.

Neither of these statements come anywhere close to:

 

 

Exactly. I have stressed over and over that the Bills have a GOOD offensive line (of course they do). Yet posters will write stuff about how we're doomed because we have a question mark at right tackle. Every team has question marks on the OL! Similarly, FireChan, in his short life of watching football, seems to think that there are these magic GM's out there that hit on every single pick and every single move they make. Ya know what? Robert Woods was the right pick. He was the consensus best receiver on the board at the time and we very much needed a WR. Whether he actually pans out or not is kind of besides the point (granted, you do have to hit on some or most of your high round picks). But those were exactly the picks that previous regimes did NOT make. Whaley never makes the "cute" pick- see: Whitner 8th overall, Torell Troup, TJ Graham, etc. He makes the obvious pick. And even when you make the no-brainer pick, it's not gonna work out every single time. The guy inherited a team with no QB whatsoever. QB is the most important asset your team can have. I believe that Whaley has done everything in his power to address it. You can't, as Biff from Tonawanda would call into GR to suggest, make a trade for Ben Roethlisberger. Look at the Patriots: they have had some terrible drafts in the Brady era (more often than not) and yet they're SB contenders every year. When someone is critical of the Manny Lawson signing (what??) you know that that person is simply not being objective and is already dead set on believing what they want to believe. Anyone with an objective football sense that follows the whole league and not just the Bills, understands that Whaley has been a very good GM thus far- at worst. Anyone who can't see that the guy has been right more often than he's been wrong is simply not paynig attention.

 

You're just a liar. You lie and lie and lie until you get your way. No thanks.

[metzelaars_lives]

Neither of these statements come anywhere close to:

 

 

 

You're just a liar. You lie and lie and lie until you get your way. No thanks.

OK FireChan, you're right. I don't literally think that you believe in NFL GM's who possess actual "magic" and hit on every single move they've ever made. So in that sense, yes, I was lying. And for that, I apologize. But indulge me- you do agree with the following statements:

 

1. Doug Whaley is a poor NFL GM.

 

2. Doug Whaley has hit on a lower percentage of moves he's made as GM of the Bills (draft picks, who to sign, who not to re-sign, who to restructure, etc.) than the average NFL GM in that same timespan.

 

I just want to make sure we're on the same page as far as what you believe to be true about Doug Whaley.

[FireChan]

OK FireChan, you're right. I don't literally think that you believe in NFL GM's who possess actual "magic" and hit on every single move they've ever made. So in that sense, yes, I was lying. And for that, I apologize. But indulge me- you do agree with the following statements:

 

1. Doug Whaley is a poor NFL GM.

 

2. Doug Whaley has hit on a lower percentage of moves he's made as GM of the Bills (draft picks, who to sign, who not to re-sign, who to restructure, etc.) than the average NFL GM in that same timespan.

 

I just want to make sure we're on the same page as far as what you believe to be true about Doug Whaley.

Thank you.

 

I'd say he's probably right around average. Not necessarily bad but certainly not "good."

Edited March 22, 2016 by FireChan

[metzelaars_lives]

Thank you.

 

I'd say he's probably right around average. Not necessarily bad but certainly not "good."

I think he's been above average and good. I'd even go so far as to say he's been very good. The biggest mistake he may have made was letting Marrone/Scwartz get away because we would have made the playoffs last year with them intact (assuming we still signed Taylor/Roman).

 

And for the other people telling me I can't give Whaley any credit for Incognito because that was Rex's guy, who re-signed him at a very reasonable rate at the 11th hour before free agency started? As far as Rex being responsible for bringing in Taylor- does anyone have a link to show me where that is absolutely the case?

Edited March 22, 2016 by metzelaars_lives

[FireChan]

I think he's been above average and good. I'd even go so far as to say he's been very good. The biggest mistake he may have made was letting Marrone/Scwartz get away because we would have made the playoffs last year with them intact (assuming we still signed Taylor/Roman).

 

And for the other people telling me I can't give Whaley any credit for Incognito because that was Rex's guy, who re-signed him at a very reasonable rate at the 11th hour before free agency started? As far as Rex being responsible for bringing in Taylor- does anyone have a link to show me where that is absolutely the case?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25229222/rex-ryan-hand-picked-tyrod-taylor-wanted-him-with-jets

 

I find it hard to like Whaley due to fundamental disagreements with how to build a team. That and I can't gloss over the things he tried to do and got lucky to avoid. And I don't give him much credit for moves that were no-brainers.

 

IMO, Whaley trying to re-sign Spiller to a ridiculous contract, getting called out of the blue by Chip trying to deal McCoy for a second year player, then rescinding the contract to Spiller doesn't count as Whaley "making good moves." He got lucky. And it was move that saved his own ass from his mistakes.

[Nihilarian]

Thank you.

 

I'd say he's probably right around average. Not necessarily bad but certainly not "good."

I agree with this. While not proposing that the team fire him. I feel there is this void at the top of the org filled by a new owner who was deceived into thinking he has the NFL football acumen to make an intelligent choice for a new head coach. and the other guy at the top of that org chart who pushed for the latest head coaching hire is a marketing / baseball man who has no business involved in any way with the football side of operations.

 

I don't see how hiring an experienced NFL senior advisor / team president like a Ron Wolf, Charlie Casserly or even stealing Current Packer GM Ted Thompson by hiring him away from Green Bay and promoting him to team president of football operations wouldn't help this franchise win a super bowl. Isn't that what it's all about?

Edited March 22, 2016 by Nihilarian

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25229222/rex-ryan-hand-picked-tyrod-taylor-wanted-him-with-jets

 

I find it hard to like Whaley due to fundamental disagreements with how to build a team. That and I can't gloss over the things he tried to do and got lucky to avoid. And I don't give him much credit for moves that were no-brainers.

 

IMO, Whaley trying to re-sign Spiller to a ridiculous contract, getting called out of the blue by Chip trying to deal McCoy for a second year player, then rescinding the contract to Spiller doesn't count as Whaley "making good moves." He got lucky. And it was move that saved his own ass from his mistakes.

Fair enough. I think he's a good GM who's been held back by coaching staffs he didn't get to hire, but gotta acknowledge that it's perfectly debatable until we actually start winning. It's good to hear from both sides.

[3rdand12]

Fair enough. I think he's a good GM who's been held back by coaching staffs he didn't get to hire, but gotta acknowledge that it's perfectly debatable until we actually start winning. It's good to hear from both sides.

I must consider what Whaley walked into, and the coaching changes he has suffered.

 

Everyone can have an opinion. But no one here is Right.

Its somewhere in the middle.

Lets call Whaley average.

 

I personally think he has more recently developed one hell of a scouting team. He really has rearranged the deck chairs nicely post Nix.

Sure he missed wildly early, but he does seem to be honing his craft. To me at least

Any one who says Coaches do not drive the draft are lying.

GM wants to please the HC. be on the same if you will

BPA an all that? just talk once you have enough talent built up.

Edited March 22, 2016 by 3rdand12

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I must consider what Whaley walked into, and the coaching changes he has suffered.

 

Everyone can have an opinion. But no one here is Right.

Its somewhere in the middle.

Lets call Whaley average.

 

I personally think he has more recently developed one hell of a scouting team. He really has rearranged the deck chairs nicely post Nix.

Dure he missed wildly early, but he does seem to be honing his craft. To me at least

Any one who says Coaches do not drive the draft are lying.

GM wants to please the HC. be on the same if you will

BPA an all that? just talk once you have enough talent built up.

Good stuff here. I'll add that I see this draft as a key one for Doug. If John Miller works out, he and Darby alone are a decent take from a draft with no first rounder. But the next two years are pivotal and we'll need more than that. We can't do anything in free agency this year and provided we can re sign our own, won't be able to do much in FA next year either. Meanwhile we're trying to reshape the roster for 2 coaches who do things quite differently than their predecessors. To me this is the time for he and the scouts to step up and prove their mettle, work with the coaches and get the young talent they need. Thing is I feel good about that, I think he'll come through. Whether the coaching staff can capitalize is another question.