Arkady Renko Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 The truth lies somewhere between the two extremes. The fact is, pretty much all levels of NYS government are far too large with excessive power and regulatory might. They've all but killed the state North of the NYC suburbs. 240351[/snapback] I hate to be an ass and link to something that I wrote myself, but I tried to outline all of the many reasons why I think NYC's drags down upstate New York cities here: http://jfaux.blogspot.com/2005/02/51st-state.html Just my humble opinion on the subject. Listening to people living in Buffalo, though, it appears that the local government does much damage on its own too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
envirojeff Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 You yourself are saying that you left Buffalo b/c of the problems there yet you don't want them to try anything different in order to solve them? 240395[/snapback] First of all, I never said that I left because of any problems? I left for the Sun and a fresh start out of High school. The biggest tool in your box is to vote or better yet run for a county board seat. Why do you hate me for leaving? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 In my 30 years of working, one year was on a temporary county job. I was lost. There was like no incentive, mission, purpose, whatever you want to call it. Just come in, do it, and leave. In the private sector there is so much drive. I guess it is called profitability and competition. Maybe that one movie had it right, Wall Street, "greed is good" I also worked for Tyco, greed is not good in their case 240414[/snapback] Yup, that is absolutely the difference in the private sector. And at least in that world, when the Tyco-type situations happen, someone is usually held accountable by those whose money was lost or stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 First of all, I never said that I left because of any problems? I left for the Sun and a fresh start out of High school. The biggest tool in your box is to vote or better yet run for a county board seat. Why do you hate me for leaving? Jeff 240423[/snapback] I don't hate you for leaving. I also am not from Buffalo, but central NY. Likely, I will have to leave central NY soon. Not because of a desire to do so but because of limited opportunities here. I don't fault people for leaving because of opportunities I fault people who leave for better opportunities and than hope for the status quo in their old home towns. As far as voting goes, I do vote for folks who will cut back on government, but I am only one vote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
envirojeff Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 I don't hate you for leaving. I also am not from Buffalo, but central NY. Likely, I will have to leave central NY soon. Not because of a desire to do so but because of limited opportunities here. I don't fault people for leaving because of opportunities I fault people who leave for better opportunities and than hope for the status quo in their old home towns. As far as voting goes, I do vote for folks who will cut back on government, but I am only one vote... 240431[/snapback] That's kinda defeatist, get on a campaign, run yourself...it's a good feeling to be part of the process. You feel like you are making a difference - and you are. I don't really think that you hate me, but you too are thinking about leaving the area..It's not a easy thing to do. I came to central Florida for the Sun but also because of the shrinking employment base. That was 20 years ago and, trust me, I'm still home sick many times throughout the year. I love WNY Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILLS02138 Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 BINGO: I'm still home sick many times throughout the year. I love WNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
envirojeff Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Bingo? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Just chew on this a little. Everyone alwasy talks about how bloated the goverment is. And it couldn't be truer. But what everyone fails to also recognize or discuss, including the media, is the money public employees make. I agree that police and fire protection is vital. I also agree that public education is vital. What I don't agree with is Bflo cops starting in the upper 40s (I believe) with NO COLLEGE DEGREE REQUIREMENT and teachers with REQUIRED MASTERS DEGREES starting in the upper 20s low 30s in Bflo public schools. The best example of the overpayment we make here is this. FOr those of you who read the Sunday Employment section, you might have noticed an ad for police in Atlanta, a GROWING southern city on the upswing. The starting salary for a cop there, with a bachelors degree is $32,000+. Without is can be below $30,000. It's not just the number of employees here, it's the salaries. It's a damn joke. NYS Troopers start at $53,000! I have friend who are troopers in rural areas and they're bored out of their minds. One said he'd barely see a single person on a 12-hour overnight shift. So next time you go to the polls or are at a debate, as the candidates why we pay cops so much. Oh, and by the way, save the "its a dangerous job" argument. It's not even in the top 10 for workplace injuries. It's a perception helped along by media and unions, which are also killing WNY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILLS02138 Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 Bingo? Jeff 240457[/snapback] You proved my point nicely. I'm certain you live your life with a very large void. Good luck to you Jeff - don't mean any disrespect - I'm sure we can all agree - that Buffalo can be such a better place... Just tough decisions right now... and they are finally being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 It's the truth.I live in rural Albany County and it it VERY sparsly populated.I don't receive any services from the county.I have well water,I pay for my garbage collection,and I pay a yearly 'road maintainence' fee of several hundred dollars. My school taxes *alone* are $6,227.00New York State Government is WAY out of control...... 240464[/snapback] What is your assessed value (ballpark)? Mine is about $250K and I pay a total of about $3600 a year in property tax. My undeveloped land in NY is about a third that and it ain't worth crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Just chew on this a little. Everyone alwasy talks about how bloated the goverment is. And it couldn't be truer. But what everyone fails to also recognize or discuss, including the media, is the money public employees make. I agree that police and fire protection is vital. I also agree that public education is vital. What I don't agree with is Bflo cops starting in the upper 40s (I believe) with NO COLLEGE DEGREE REQUIREMENT and teachers with REQUIRED MASTERS DEGREES starting in the upper 20s low 30s in Bflo public schools. The best example of the overpayment we make here is this. FOr those of you who read the Sunday Employment section, you might have noticed an ad for police in Atlanta, a GROWING southern city on the upswing. The starting salary for a cop there, with a bachelors degree is $32,000+. Without is can be below $30,000. It's not just the number of employees here, it's the salaries. It's a damn joke. NYS Troopers start at $53,000! I have friend who are troopers in rural areas and they're bored out of their minds. One said he'd barely see a single person on a 12-hour overnight shift. So next time you go to the polls or are at a debate, as the candidates why we pay cops so much. Oh, and by the way, save the "its a dangerous job" argument. It's not even in the top 10 for workplace injuries. It's a perception helped along by media and unions, which are also killing WNY. 240459[/snapback] The AVERAGE NYC public employee (teacher, cop, fireman, etc) makes $86,000/yr in salary, OT and pension benefits. And they all rally at City Hall on a regular basis for a better contract. Total costs are in the tens of billions. I posted more complete stats in the West Side Stadium thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 That's kinda defeatist, get on a campaign, run yourself...it's a good feeling to be part of the process. You feel like you are making a difference - and you are. I don't really think that you hate me, but you too are thinking about leaving the area..It's not a easy thing to do. I came to central Florida for the Sun but also because of the shrinking employment base. That was 20 years ago and, trust me, I'm still home sick many times throughout the year. I love WNY Jeff 240441[/snapback] Dude, I don't hate you at all. I just don't get why you'd support higher taxes there. I apologize if it seemed like it got personal at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 **Newsflash** life isn't fair! Yes, it sucks that a lot of good people are going to get laid off. If i was a county employee, i wouldn't be bitching on a message board right now. My ass would be up on monster.com getting ready for the inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightRider Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 The fact of the matter is that the old steel belt is going down like a dinosaur and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. THERE IT HAD TO BE SAID. Most younger people have moved out of the area for a solid future. Are they wrong to do this? I did it and I don't think that it was a wrong decision. Look, It is a very difficult situation to watch, but we can't honestly say that we didn't see this coming? Jeff 240383[/snapback] Xerox and Kodak don't make steel, yet neither is very healthy. Neither does GE in Schenactady. Some of it is poor decision making by Xerox and Kodak, but not all of it. GE is healthy, but they've decided to do business in more business friendly localles like Greenvillle NC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 1) The rust belt argument doesn't work. Cleveland and Pittsburgh have done much, much, much better than Buffalo has. 2) Do you really think all of the 10,000 employees have useful jobs? I would guess that if 2,000 of them got hit by a bus tomorrow you wouldn't see any difference in your daily life. A perfect example was the guy I met 2 years ago who worked for the county in Syracuse (don't know the county). He was 25 years old, and bragging about the maintenance job with the county his uncle got him that pays him $35k, and where he works maybe an hour or two per day. Sits around reads papers and "bullsh*ts wit the guys" for the rest of the time. This kid was so psyched about his pathetic little job I wanted to punch him in the face. Yes this example is a different county, but the same thing is happening with blue collar and white collar workers all over the county. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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