Players asking to be used differently (Sammy, DL)

[3rdand12]

 

Offense went three and out four times in a row. Failed to move the ball 10+ yards on four straight possesions.

 

ST was pretty lousy, but it wasn't as if they were kicking from their own 40.

Field position dictates play calling hugely. But you do have the point. First game for the BU Qb too!

defense faired somewhere in between those two

 

The ST play had the Bills pinned inside their 20 with bad decisions to fair catch the ball inside the 10 and negated great punts by getting penalty after penalty. The sad thing is that the offense was the best unit on the field last Sunday even with those 3 and outs.

oops just missed your post. seems we agree to some degree

[The Big Cat]

 

 

While those stats are interesting and show that they are capable of consistently playing well there are some stats that are disturbing.

 

They're giving up 21.3 first downs a game which ranks them 21st in the NFL and they're allowing 3rd downs to be converted at a rate of 38% which ranks them 17th in the league. Compare that to last year when they allowed 18.9 first downs per game (which ranked 5th) and allowed 3rd downs to be converted at a 33% clip - good for 1st in the league.

 

Both the 1st downs and the 3rd down conversion rate is directly tied to negative plays (read: sacks.) If they were in better down and distance situations they wouldn't be allowing so many conversions. It doesn't help much that you're allowing fewer yards per play when you can't get off the field and teams use short yardage plays to move up and down the field.

 

 

Right, well we'll see how the 2015 stats transform over the next ten games when we face:

1. Bortles
2. Tannehill
3. Fitz x 2
4. Hoyer/Mallet
5. Bradford
6. Cousins
7. Smith

Through six games we've seen Luck, Manning, Brady and Dalton.

 

The stats I posted were to show that we're not THAT far off from last year's defense at this point, as Mr. ScottLaw insisted we were.

 

 

The ST play had the Bills pinned inside their 20 with bad decisions to fair catch the ball inside the 10 and negated great punts by getting penalty after penalty. The sad thing is that the offense was the best unit on the field last Sunday even with those 3 and outs.

 

I'll give you that the ST caused some serious damage. But the bolded statement, hell no.

[YoloinOhio]

Kelso said he broke down the film and in the 1st half Mario dropped back 3 times out of 25. He hadn't gotten to 2nd half yet. Another stat I saw was 4 out of 55 total for the game. Kelso said Mario complained that he is supposed to rush the passer - he was asked to rush the passer, a lot. He didn't get there.

 

Those drop back #s really aren't going to be the reason for the defense not "working." Even it was say 6 for the whole same. IMO

Edited October 22, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[TheFunPolice]

Mario must have been told to stand up straight, put his arms out in front of him, place them on the chest of the tackle and just stand there, because I see that a lot.

[elroy16]

Mario must have been told to stand up straight, put his arms out in front of him, place them on the chest of the tackle and just stand there, because I see that a lot.

 

 

I can't tell if that's the defensive coaches making them focus on the run so much or what. I've noticed that too with Hughes as well. He used to fly off the ball, but I don't see that this year.

 

 

Look at this quote from Dareus.

 

 

“It’s not been a lot of times where there have been all four of us, full tilt, ears pinned back and we’re going after it. We haven’t had a lot of that this year. Hopefully Rex is going to implement it. There’s nothing we can do.”

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/buffalo-bills-rex-ryan-responds-criticism-defensive-schemes-102115

 

 

The coaches are telling them to do something that isn't working.

Edited October 22, 2015 by elroy16

[TheFunPolice]

I also assume it must be coaching, because the DE's don't even seem to be trying to get past the tackles on a lot of plays, and they obviously can

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

I can't tell if that's the defensive coaches making them focus on the run so much or what. I've noticed that too with Hughes as well. He used to fly off the ball, but I don't see that this year.

 

 

Look at this quote from Dareus.

 

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/buffalo-bills-rex-ryan-responds-criticism-defensive-schemes-102115

 

 

The coaches are telling them to do something that isn't working.

there have actually been a lot of plays where they are rushing 4. Dareus and Kyle have looked Good almost all the time. Mario and Hughes haven't appeared to go all out every play. It's not all on the coaches. The players may want to start playing harder and stop blaming others. Mario did not drop back that much and if he was consistently getting to the QB as a pass rusher then Rex would keep sending him.

 

People take these player quotes as gospel. It takes all parties to beat another team. Rex said he isn't perfect play caller and will make adjustments. I'm waiting for the players to hold up their end too. shared accountability. They complain about sack numbers and yet when they do rush the passer they don't get the sack. That's not on Rex.

Edited October 22, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

Oh really?

 

Stats through 6 games.

 

statistics are like a bikini what they reveal is interesting but what they hide is vital. Yes stats show defense is about the same however the viewers see that we are getting no pressure on the QB. Look at stats like sacks, forced throws, hits and it's than compare to last year.

[Billsfan1972]

How aout not one hurry, hit or sack and the bills were home. Tennessee was easily beaten by the Dolphins and while only scoring 13 points vs. the Bills, they moved the ball. The Line & LB's have created very little pressure and sacks. Add that to penalties and bad third down % and you are scratching the surface as to what's wrong with the D

[NOVABillsFan]

there have actually been a lot of plays where they are rushing 4. Dareus and Kyle have looked Good almost all the time. Mario and Hughes haven't appeared to go all out every play. It's not all on the coaches. The players may want to start playing harder and stop blaming others. Mario did not drop back that much and if he was consistently getting to the QB as a pass rusher then Rex would keep sending him.

 

People take these player quotes as gospel. It takes all parties to beat another team. Rex said he isn't perfect play caller and will make adjustments. I'm waiting for the players to hold up their end too. shared accountability. They complain about sack numbers and yet when they do rush the passer they don't get the sack. That's not on Rex.

On M&M this AM they were indicating that Rex was rushing with 3 a lot and he had Mario in coverage on some plays.

 

I could be wrong, but to me it appears that although the sacks and INT's are way down from last year, the overall stats seem to be on par.

[YoloinOhio]

On M&M this AM they were indicating that Rex was rushing with 3 a lot and he had Mario in coverage on some plays.

 

I could be wrong, but to me it appears that although the sacks and INT's are way down from last year, the overall stats seem to be on par.

yes - a small percentage of plays. In all the other ones... He didn't get to the QB. Not all Rex's fault. All those times he rushed the passer and didn't get there? Cincy has great tackles and was executing max protect with 6 OL - that's nice that they respect our DL enough to use an extra guy but they have so many studs on offense they can afford to do that and still make plays. IMO against most teams Mario is as dominant as he wants to be, but he's not going all out all the time. Edited October 23, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[elroy16]

yes - a small percentage of plays. In all the other ones... He didn't get to the QB. Not all Rex's fault. All those times he rushed the passer and didn't get there? Cincy has great tackles and was executing max protect with 6 OL - that's nice that they respect our DL enough to use an extra guy but they have so many studs on offense they can afford to do that and still make plays. IMO against most teams Mario is as dominant as he wants to be, but he's not going all out all the time.

 

 

I don't think it's just having those guys drop into coverage. It doesn't look like they're flying off the snap like they were last year. Hughes used to get offsides penalties or miss time the snap, have to jump back onside and basically be ineffective for a play because of it. It drove me crazy, but most of the time he was getting good jumps and either driving his tackle back into the QB or he'd go around the OT and forced the QB to step up in the pocket. I honestly don't remember a single time he's done that this year, jump offsides I mean.

 

Mario looks down right slow off the snap this year. He never appeared as quick as Hughes or even Kyle, but this year the front four looks like they're just there to occupy blockers and play their 2-gap assignment. Sure that's effective against the run, but against the pass they look slow and ineffective. I know QB's are going with quick throws, but even when they don't, I don't think the front four is getting as many hurries or hits on the QB as last year.

 

 

That all takes me back to Dareus' quote. When I watch the front four, they don't appear to be flying off the ball, looking to attack the pocket which lines up with what Dareus said.

 

 

What does Dareus' quote mean to you? In your opinion, is he just complaining?

Edited October 23, 2015 by elroy16

[The Big Cat]

statistics are like a bikini what they reveal is interesting but what they hide is vital. Yes stats show defense is about the same however the viewers see that we are getting no pressure on the QB. Look at stats like sacks, forced throws, hits and it's than compare to last year.

 

Yes, I hear what you're saying. But even with the glut of sacks we had last year, we still gave up more net yards per passing play than we are this year--as those posted stats reflect.

 

So when we talk about how "different" this defense has looked during six games, I would counter to say that in four of those games, save one missed tackle in the flat from Bradham, they've been about as stout as you could POSSIBLY ask for. They haven't been flashy. They haven't gotten picks, fumbles or sacks, but by god they got the job done.

 

In the other two games, they were against two of the best offenses in the league. Not a total excuse, I understand, but by the same token it IS still the first six games in this scheme--a scheme that the head coach (in spite of how effective it actually has been in the large part of contests this year) says needs to be tweaked.

Edited October 23, 2015 by The Big Cat

[NoSaint]

one In the Bengals game. And ive been looking for it all season. Im at the game screaming GET YOUR HANDS UP!! It was ridiculous!

i admit to noticing mario dropped and giving the most half hearted effort at getting his hands up that i have ever seen.

 

it might have been the camera angle making it look bad and it being obvious to mario that he wasnt in the throwing window from where he stood though.

 

for some reason it really popped when watching live though.

[Dan]

Yes, I hear what you're saying. But even with the dearth of sacks we had last year, we still gave up more net yards per passing play than we are this year--as those posted stats reflect.

 

So when we talk about how "different" this defense has looked during six games, I would counter to say that in four of those games, save one missed tackle in the flat from Bradham, they've been about as stout as you could POSSIBLY ask for. They haven't been flashy. They haven't gotten picks, fumbles or sacks, but by god they got the job done.

 

In the other two games, they were against two of the best offenses in the league. Not a total excuse, I understand, but by the same token it IS still the first six games in this scheme--a scheme that the head coach (in spite of how effective it actually has been in the large part of contests this year) says needs to be tweaked.

I could argue that the better passing statisitics are due to better CB play this year. Or do you contend that dropping Mario and Kyle into coverage, at the expense of QB pressure, is what's lowering the opposing pass yards? Would the defense not be better if we had our current level of CB play AND last year's pass rush?

 

It seems to me they've decided to go all in and stop the run, which our run defense seems significantly improved. However, in a passing league, when they face top teir QBs, they need to adjust. That's what they're not doing, IMO. They're not making the proper adjustments to put the DL in the proper position to succeed to their ability. Could it be that Rex's scheme of confusion and moving guys around has been figured out by the league and he's unable or unwilling to adjust and keep up with the better offenses?

 

And this line that they've done good... Except for when they faced good QBs like Brady and Dalton. Well, isn't that special. So we should be happy with beating up the little guys, but the big guys are just too good for us. That's not the defense I want nor think we should accept.

 

I will agree with you, we're only 6 games into an entirely new coaching staff and scheme. Expectations should be, and should have been, tempered with the reality that few teams click right off the bat. But that still doesn't alter the fact that up to this point, the defense is greatly underperforming compared to their salaries, previous years' efforts, and coaching reputations. That needs to change.

[mikef272002]

If I'm a coach I know that the fans favorite players on the team isn't the coaching staff, It's guys like Watkins, McCoy, Mario, Darious, and so on. If these guys are complaining then it's upsetting to the fans.. The last thing a head coach wants to do is come into a town his first year and be hated by the fans because the players that have been here for years are upset.. If Rex has a head on his shoulders he'll turn them loose..

[Gugny]

"And things like that"

 

I cannot tell you how much I cringe when I read/hear him say that.

 

It bugs me even more than, "and whatnot," or "and such."

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

I don't think it's just having those guys drop into coverage. It doesn't look like they're flying off the snap like they were last year. Hughes used to get offsides penalties or miss time the snap, have to jump back onside and basically be ineffective for a play because of it. It drove me crazy, but most of the time he was getting good jumps and either driving his tackle back into the QB or he'd go around the OT and forced the QB to step up in the pocket. I honestly don't remember a single time he's done that this year, jump offsides I mean.

 

Mario looks down right slow off the snap this year. He never appeared as quick as Hughes or even Kyle, but this year the front four looks like they're just there to occupy blockers and play their 2-gap assignment. Sure that's effective against the run, but against the pass they look slow and ineffective. I know QB's are going with quick throws, but even when they don't, I don't think the front four is getting as many hurries or hits on the QB as last year.

 

 

That all takes me back to Dareus' quote. When I watch the front four, they don't appear to be flying off the ball, looking to attack the pocket which lines up with what Dareus said.

 

 

What does Dareus' quote mean to you? In your opinion, is he just complaining?

in my opinion it is exactly what I already said ... There should be shared accountability from players and coaches. Right now, based on the player quotes, there isn't. Dareus and Kyle are/were, but not the other 2. More Mario than Hughes. Mario needs to take it up a notch. And he's really one my favorite players, so it's highly disappointing.

 

Though I don't see last week as a referendum on the rest of the games as that OL scheme was designed to keep him away from the QB at all costs and they are very effective with the talent they have on the line - but at Tennessee he was taking some plays off and others he was ... Himself. We really just can't afford to have him take plays off anymore. Stop blaming the coaches - there are times he is 1:1 with an OT on a passing play and not getting there.

Edited October 23, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[The Big Cat]

I could argue that the better passing statisitics are due to better CB play this year. Or do you contend that dropping Mario and Kyle into coverage, at the expense of QB pressure, is what's lowering the opposing pass yards? Would the defense not be better if we had our current level of CB play AND last year's pass rush?

 

It seems to me they've decided to go all in and stop the run, which our run defense seems significantly improved. However, in a passing league, when they face top teir QBs, they need to adjust. That's what they're not doing, IMO. They're not making the proper adjustments to put the DL in the proper position to succeed to their ability. Could it be that Rex's scheme of confusion and moving guys around has been figured out by the league and he's unable or unwilling to adjust and keep up with the better offenses?

 

And this line that they've done good... Except for when they faced good QBs like Brady and Dalton. Well, isn't that special. So we should be happy with beating up the little guys, but the big guys are just too good for us. That's not the defense I want nor think we should accept.

 

I will agree with you, we're only 6 games into an entirely new coaching staff and scheme. Expectations should be, and should have been, tempered with the reality that few teams click right off the bat. But that still doesn't alter the fact that up to this point, the defense is greatly underperforming compared to their salaries, previous years' efforts, and coaching reputations. That needs to change.

 

Agreed: Schwartz scheme for the DLine was much more successful and much more tailored to their talents. I think that's a huge problem, but Rex has said (or at least hinted) that they need to figure out a way to implement some of those same elements, or at least find a way to maximize the talent on our very expensive d-line. It's all we fans can hope for. But it's something that must happen. And if it doesn't that's a major problem.

 

Disagreed: They've done well against crappy defenses, and yes, we'd all like them to have done better against two of the better offenses's in the entire league.

 

But the buffer I give them here is that it's still very early in a scheme which (as mentioned above) is still finding its way, something you acknowledge. So I neither share nor understand your outrage that they were unable to slow down two of the better offenses in the entire league.

 

If the big takeaway from this is that Schwartz got them to full throttle faster, then fine. It completely ignores the week five Patriots* deluge at RWS last year. But fine.

[MDH]

Agreed: Schwartz scheme for the DLine was much more successful and much more tailored to their talents. I think that's a huge problem, but Rex has said (or at least hinted) that they need to figure out a way to implement some of those same elements, or at least find a way to maximize the talent on our very expensive d-line. It's all we fans can hope for. But it's something that must happen. And if it doesn't that's a major problem.

 

Disagreed: They've done well against crappy defenses, and yes, we'd all like them to have done better against two of the better offenses's in the entire league.

 

But the buffer I give them here is that it's still very early in a scheme which (as mentioned above) is still finding its way, something you acknowledge. So I neither share nor understand your outrage that they were unable to slow down two of the better offenses in the entire league.

 

If the big takeaway from this is that Schwartz got them to full throttle faster, then fine. It completely ignores the week five Patriots* deluge at RWS last year. But fine.

I agree that the Pats and Cinci have two of the best Os in the league. I am also aware that both teams scored more against the Bills than in any other game this year. So every other team has done a better job at keeping the points down.

 

Look, I think the Bills D will be fine too but I believe it has more to do with them getting the kinks worked out in a new scheme than I do in trying to convince myself theyve been good so far and the only thing holding them back is the high quality opponents.