What is happening on Defense?

[BrooklynBills]

 

 

Dareus could be great at it....he makes a ton of stack and shed plays.......but NT's just aren't valued because objective one around the league defensively is to get into backfields and disrupt QB's........ and it would be a tremendous waste of his talent to be exclusively a double team draw.

 

When he expressed a disinterest in doing what his DL coach wanted him to do this summer that was the very first sign of things to come.

If we continue with Ryan's scheme, id imagine Dareus is played in a more 34 DE position, like Wilkerson was in NY. This is where he projected to when he was drafted actually. I also imagine we will sign/draft a true NT. I've also thought that a good possibility for why they haven't reworked Mario's contract is that they know that he is not going to be here long term at this point and are just waiting for a point that makes sense financially to release him. It's a lot of money tied up in a player who may not fit anywhere in this scheme.

 

This is year one with Ryan. He will either get the players here to play his defense or he will get new players. I said it when we hired him. I would rather install a defensive philosophy/scheme that you could plug and play new guys in over time than become reliant on a highly paid DL.

[Mikie2times]

I actually don't think I would be stunned if Ryan alters his philosophy at this point. In fact, I really don't see how it could go another way and it's also easy to understand how it went the way it did. It's pretty natural for all of us in just business to want to make a unique mark, let alone football. The best know not to reinvent the wheel but people can make mistakes in this regard. Rex has a defensive style he's branded by and it's the 3-4 and it's extravagant blitz concepts. It very well could be one of the best defenses in the world, but it's just not right for us right now. I think Rex can live with the offense being the death of him as he did in NY, but not the defense. The defense has been reasonably healthy and added Darby. The visuals look worse than the stats. This team just doesn't look organized and is putting players in positions they don't excel at. Pressure from the fans and media is being applied to both the players and Rex. The players will talk openly. Rex needs to fix this to preserve his image and I think he can let go of his brand if that is what's at stake.

[Mikie2times]

If we continue with Ryan's scheme, id imagine Dareus is played in a more 34 DE position, like Wilkerson was in NY. This is where he projected to when he was drafted actually. I also imagine we will sign/draft a true NT. I've also thought that a good possibility for why they haven't reworked Mario's contract is that they know that he is not going to be here long term at this point and are just waiting for a point that makes sense financially to release him. It's a lot of money tied up in a player who may not fit anywhere in this scheme.

 

This is year one with Ryan. He will either get the players here to play his defense or he will get new players. I said it when we hired him. I would rather install a defensive philosophy/scheme that you could plug and play new guys in over time than become reliant on a highly paid DL.

I don't have any issues with this, in fact I agree completely that this team's personal is not right for the current system. That said, for cap reasons, the time to make a push was now. They went all in. So if you hired a guy as your HC I wouldn't think the Bills would be expecting a makeover on the same defense that was young and finished 2nd in DVOA last year.

[BobbyC81]

Seems to be a lot of confusion when Cinci came out in different formations. Seems like no edge rush at all. And don't blame on quick throws as Dalton was back there a long time on some key throws.

 

Yeah, there was that one play the announcer mentioned he had all day to throw. They showed the replay and the Bills only rushed three. Kyle Williams was triple-teamed, Mario had a one-on-one matchup but ended up on the ground and I think Hughes was blocked way away from the pocket. Mario got up and was making his way towards Dalton but he threw it. That was pathetic.

 

I hate when these coaches are so stubborn that they push their schemes on players that reduce their effectiveness.

 

We've heard since the pre-season that the defense wasn't communicating and now 6 games into the regular season and they still haven't fixed it? What's the problem, not enough vocal leaders?

 

And the dumb penalties continue. I'm surprised the number of individual penalties aren't publicized. Hughes must be one of the leaders.

Edited October 19, 2015 by LittleJoeCartwright

[BrooklynBills]

I don't have any issues with this, in fact I agree completely that this team's personal is not right for the current system. That said, for cap reasons, the time to make a push was now. They went all in. So if you hired a guy as your HC I wouldn't think the Bills would be expecting a makeover on the same defense that was young and finished 2nd in DVOA last year.

Not saying I completely agree about making over the defense either but it's just what I foresee happening. The idea of any kind of "push" was a bit ridiculous considering the state of the offense and QB position.

 

The ideal guy to hire would have been Dan Quinn as his D would fit great with our current personnel and Kyle Shanahan is a great OC, but not many wanted this job given the QB position.

 

As far as Mario goes, his cap number is outrageous for any defensive player not named Watt.

[BobbyC81]

I'm left to wonder, will TPegs let the Bills go the way of the Sabres, or did he learn and will he ensure adjustments get made immediately. I never liked letting Schwartz go, he had his finger on the pulse of this defense. Ryan has proven he is unable to get production out of them and now one of the best players is openly questioning his calls. The season hangs in the balance and it's only week 6.

I wish Pegula would call Rex out on boasting that they'd have the NFL's best defense

[Big Blitz]

Some perspective...I guess.

 

We've lost to probably the 2 best QBs/offenses in football right now. And Eli and the Giants aren't chopped liver either.

 

The biggest issues on this team are it's lack of discipline, penalties, and 3 and outs. 2 of those are very fixable. The offense.....I have no idea how it's going to look without Harvin and Watkins.

 

Edited October 19, 2015 by Big Blitz

[Doug Flutie Band]

The problem with the defense is the linebackers. They never make a play, might as well be a couple random college kids out there instead of Brown and Bradham. The secondary and the line have had their issues, but also made their fair share of plays. The linebackers are a huge weakness.

[BrooklynBills]

It's completely asinine.

 

Get rid of talented players that built your defense to one of the best in the league because they don't fit your scheme?

 

Ridiculous.

Can't blame Ryan. You can't force him to coach out of his comfort zone. You can blame Pegula for hiring him, but you can't blame Ryan for installing the system that he has coached forever.

 

The only big guy I see them getting rid of Mario, who is overpaid anyway.

[Nihilarian]

Can't blame Ryan. You can't force him to coach out of his comfort zone. You can blame Pegula for hiring him, but you can't blame Ryan for installing the system that he has coached forever.

 

The only big guy I see them getting rid of Mario, who is overpaid anyway.

That's the thing, as he hasn't coached this scheme forever!! When Mike Pettine was his DC he ran a 3-4 style too, only he used a lot of overload blitzing, meaning he usually sent more guys after the QB then the offense had blocking.

 

New DC Dennis Thurman is using more of a zone blitz scheme like the Steelers used to use. That zone blitz works best when you have great linebackers, and it doesn't matter if you send an average D linemen into pass coverage. With the current players the Bills have is four all pros on the D line, and they are not being used to the best of their ability.

 

Might as well ask a RB to play TE, and see how that works.

[papazoid]

“When we’ve got four guys rushing, we can do some different things,” end Mario Williams said. “Some of the calls that we had, we just didn’t have four guys out there rushing in certain situations, things like that. You know, you’re just playing the call.

“We don’t make the calls as players. We’ve got to execute whatever’s called. If it’s three guys going, it’s three guys going and we’ve got to figure out an opportunity, a different way to get there faster.”

​

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/10/18/rush-to-judgment-d-linemen-pin-loss-on-3-4-scheme/

the 3-4 does NOT play to our strengths

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Did anyone here watch the Jets defense the last two seasons? We are them..mediocre at best and pitiful mostly....

[26CornerBlitz]

Did anyone here watch the Jets defense the last two seasons? We are them..mediocre at best and pitiful mostly....

 

That Jets' team was mostly devoid of talent with the exception of D-Line. There's no reason why the defense should be this inept given the talent level of the personnel. Rex himself said that they need to take a hard look at the approach given the results against top tier teams like NE and CIN.

[papazoid]

Pittsburgh made the 3-4 work with great linebackers. we do NOT have great LB's

dropping Mario, hughes and Lawson into coverage is NOT what they do best.

[dayman]

Part of it is coaching, another part is (and it pains me to say this) our guys are overrated. Mario isn't done but he's past his prime, same is true with Kyle Williams. Jerry Hughes can have good games but isn't going to dominate every week like a prime-Mario (and he'll get us penalties). Dareus may be he only truly elite player we have at the moment on the supposed great D-line...and he can off weeks he's not superman.

 

Of course, the biggest problem is coaching. But all in all, we may need to adjust the expectations for the defense. How many games can we play like this on defense before we accept that we won't hold people to 10 points every week?

 

We get soem QB relief moving forward, so hopefully we look better. But we do not have a 1-3 defense that is going to carry us like we thought we would...it isn't there. Not who we are. Sad part is without that...we won't make the playoffs. Another 8 or 9 win season coming down the pipe.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Rex'sOffense

[NOVABillsFan]

“When we’ve got four guys rushing, we can do some different things,” end Mario Williams said. “Some of the calls that we had, we just didn’t have four guys out there rushing in certain situations, things like that. You know, you’re just playing the call.

“We don’t make the calls as players. We’ve got to execute whatever’s called. If it’s three guys going, it’s three guys going and we’ve got to figure out an opportunity, a different way to get there faster.”

​

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/10/18/rush-to-judgment-d-linemen-pin-loss-on-3-4-scheme/

the 3-4 does NOT play to our strengths

Something has changed other than the switch to the 4-3 it would appear. I have no idea what it is. Sacks and turnovers are down. Add in Special teams allowing big yards on kickoffs with added yardage for penalties is not a recipe for success.

Edited October 19, 2015 by NOVABillsFan

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Do you think when Don Shula had Dan Marino he thought to himself oh boy I am a running coach becuase I had Larry Csonka, Kick and Mercury Morris and we ran the ball like 50 times a game. A good coach knows how to use his personnel. Rex is trying to force his defensive ideas on this team and he does not have the right personnel. He should let this team go back to letting the defensive line go into full attack mode and play the NINE WIDE defense. He's trying to force a defense on this team that can'y play the style he wants. Rex does not have the linebackers to play this style defense he is trying to install. Rex just needs to swallow his pride. Why can't he see the Bills defense is going backwards. This was once feared defense and now they are playing passive and look like a bunch of girls out there. get your act together Rex This is starting to get embarrassing to watch.

Good post!

[BrooklynBills]

Part of it is coaching, another part is (and it pains me to say this) our guys are overrated. Mario isn't done but he's past his prime, same is true with Kyle Williams. Jerry Hughes can have good games but isn't going to dominate every week like a prime-Mario (and he'll get us penalties). Dareus may be he only truly elite player we have at the moment on the supposed great D-line...and he can off weeks he's not superman.

 

Of course, the biggest problem is coaching. But all in all, we may need to adjust the expectations for the defense. How many games can we play like this on defense before we accept that we won't hold people to 10 points every week?

 

We get soem QB relief moving forward, so hopefully we look better. But we do not have a 1-3 defense that is going to carry us like we thought we would...it isn't there. Not who we are. Sad part is without that...we won't make the playoffs. Another 8 or 9 win season coming down the pipe.

I agree mostly.

 

They are asking guys to play a bit out of position at times and these guys aren't as versatile as maybe they've seemed in the past.

 

Mario is a prototype 43 DE. When Peppers moved into the Packers 34 and was asked to play LB, he lost about 20 lbs to better acclimate to the position.

 

Hughes is pretty versatile, but he is not a dominant pass rusher who can take over a game by himself.

 

I think they'll get it fixed though.

[NoSaint]

It seems pretty simple to me....4 guys up front are expected to get pressure...they aren't. They are getting blocked. Today was awful. Dropping 7 only works if they force the ball out of the QB's hands...these million dollar men up front didn't get it done. Been a few games like that.

sure, though terribly oversimplified.

 

there were several times we had a 3 man rush, and dropped 8, including 1 of those 4. im curious to see the breakdowns instead of my gut reactions live though.

[BADOLBILZ]

I disagree, as its really not more complicated then most defenses and that saying its complicated is just an excuse Ryan used when he was asked about it. He isn't doing anything new that has never been run before or that the players can't grasp. Its that they are being asked to do things that don't come close to what they do best. This defense is like a zone blitz that asks the D linemen to cover certain gaps, drop into coverage and for the most part asking them to not rush the passer.

 

Going all out after the QB is what those front four do best, and its what has allowed them to make 28% of the teams payroll on just those front four. Its not their fault either because Marcel Dareus has been complaining about the way Ryan has been using the front four all year, and now Mario.

 

Kinda why last years defense was the #1 sacking team in the league, and this year they are 20th, and 27th in sack percentage.

 

Kinda ironical that this years slogan is "feel the rush" What rush? The rush of passes zinging to the receivers hands while making the front four look bad? The Bills defense only managed one pressure on Dalton all day, and no sacks.

 

Confusion has been their biggest problem on defense all season.

 

It's causing hesitation and the defenders subsequently aren't playing fast.

 

That's not all of it......they need to force the offense to widen their OL splits to allow one-on-one matchups in space in pass pro as well as to force the running game inside where Dareus, Brown and Bradham can use their ability to make plays.

 

As I said.......the Bills have not placed a high priority on intelligence/instinctiveness on draft day and it's beyond obvious that they are overwhelmed with the amount of adjustments in this scheme.